FreeGameDev

Those are nice news, no more anorexicals-only dungeon anymore (i want a pic ). Regarding the forge, i think it would be better to have it replaced for something that fits into the center of a 3x3 like all the other rooms "active spots". Do any of you have a pic or concept of some wacky steampunk anvil machine? on that aspect, Bertram, once you confirm that adding the "active spots" is done ill create a list of the ones we need for each room, and start working on them.

Hi

Here is a screenie:

(My linux drivers are poor so don't take the weird violet colors in account.)

So far, the tiles, the room objects, the creatures and the tile selector have been resized to be almost squarish.
In fact, the scaling is x:0.4, y:0.4, z:0.5. I've tried z with 0.4 but it did actually looked too short IMHO, and weird looking.

Regarding the forge, i think it would be better to have it replaced for something that fits into the center of a 3x3 like all the other rooms "active spots". Do any of you have a pic or concept of some wacky steampunk anvil machine? on that aspect, Bertram, once you confirm that adding the "active spots" is done ill create a list of the ones we need for each room, and start working on them.

Regarding the active spots. the good news is that the people behind the room code were smart enough to start working on a class hierarchy which permits to have a custom behaviour per room type, or when resizing. Etc.

In fact, and even before I finish something about room objects. It would be great to have detailed specs of how room objects should behave when creating/adding/removing room tiles.
If you can't for any reason, I'll use the rules that seem to be desired using the existing objects.

Regards,

Thats is already a big improvement, the ratio seems fine to me.

In fact, and even before I finish something about room objects. It would be great to have detailed specs of how room objects should behave when creating/adding/removing room tiles.
If you can't for any reason, I'll use the rules that seem to be desired using the existing objects.

I ignore what room rules are already in place, but this is how they should work:
- Tiles order dont matter: the room will still work, because just one tile can properly function, ex: lair, treasure room (a bed or gold can be placed)
- 3x3 rule: A 3x3 tiles are needed to generate an "active spot" , Ex: training room, library (a dummy or book podium is created at the center), the room is useless without the active spot, since the creatures need it to perform the room activity
- 3 tiles and wall: (If we are able to implement it) 3 tiles of a room against a wall produce an active spot, an exception to the 3x3 rule.

Hi

thanks. I'll use the rooms rules given for computing the creatures room available slots, for instance.
But I've got a problem about the forge with your specs. What should I put in the center of a 3x3 square in that case?

Btw, another release:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/prv8mdun2n39p ... -04-27.zip

Changes:
- Fixed the creatures max HP and max mana values previously set to the max per level (which wasn't high, explaining the instant deaths).
The creatures stats still need balancing, though IMHO.
- Streamlined the way creatures def is set, adding support to correctly set their move speed, and read their tile passability from the def file.
This means certain creatures will move faster than others now, and certain will be able to fly over lava and water.
- Fixed the clipping seen between rooms and ground tiles when having a high view.
- Added support for a basic AI that will search for gold and use this to build sleep and training rooms. If you wait too long before digging, it will also come and scam your nearest gold.
(The AI doesn't attack yet.)
- Added support to load an arbitrary number of AI slots, defined from the level file. This means you will have no more one AI to fight (the reds), but three on the test level.
- Changed the walls, creatures, ... height to feel more squarish, as requested by Danimal and Elvano.
- Surprise! Fixed the missing tile problem using a ugly but necessary workaround.
The Dirt_10001111.mesh file needs to be fixed asap. I'll then be able to remove the workaround.
- Changed the Ogre generic scene manager in favour of the interior scene manager, which should be faster. Please tell me if it's actually right for you.
- Made the wall selection easier by preventing creatures pick-up when your selection is above a wall tile.

Please, give some feedback!
(Next, some fixes for rooms.)

Enjoy.

It looks cool, but im going to sleep now, ill play a bit tomorrow.

But I've got a problem about the forge with your specs. What should I put in the center of a 3x3 square in that case?

The tentacles use only the anvil as a bed, only that model would work for now, until i can model some worshop-ish cool loking contraction

I played for a bit, my impressions:

- Building dojo crashes game more than before
- Its hard to deploy creatures into a corridor, cursor jumps to the walls at sides
- Music volume needs to be lower when map starts
- Its hard to get a good size ratio, but i would say you are near, make the tiles and walls a bit bigger and let the creatures at their current size.
- Make imp animations play faster (graphically, it should take them a few picks hits to destroy dirt, not just one)

- Mage attacks correctly from the distance
- Creatures now put up a figth and dont die from 1 hit, but where did all the weapons go?
- Enemy keper now seems more active with digging and building, nice touch
- Creatures actually train (in a weird way) and sleep, and they even prefer training to wandering around. Good job.
- Some creatures are faster than others (as intended)

Above anything my thanks to you for taking so much time to help this project, for that reason please do not take what ill say as orders, they are but sugestions. I dont want to see you burned off and quiting the project;

Hi,

- Building dojo crashes game more than before

What?!? I'm burned off to roots and I'm quitting this project.
More seriously, I didn't know building dojo was a crash cause. Thanks for the hint, I'll keep that in mind when cleaning the stuff.

- Its hard to deploy creatures into a corridor, cursor jumps to the walls at sides

Often comes from the default view using an angle of 45° but it's never perfect anyway. Try using page up/page down to change the angle and tell me if it's better as a short term solution.
As a long-term one, I guess one should change the cursor position only when the mouse cursor is within a certain tile margin. I fear not for now.

- Music volume needs to be lower when map starts

We agree. I don't play with the music anymore unfortunately because of this, and because of a linux specific bug making the music and sounds noisy.
May I request another in-game music, a bit more calm, even if somewhat eerie?

- Its hard to get a good size ratio, but i would say you are near, make the tiles and walls a bit bigger and let the creatures at their current size.

Ok, I'll put the walls z scaling to 0.6 and we'll see.

- Make imp animations play faster (graphically, it should take them a few picks hits to destroy dirt, not just one)

I do think it's something in the mesh/blend file to fix. Skorpio?

but where did all the weapons go?

It seems the mesh files are there, but I didn't check anything related to this, yet.

Speaking of motivation, I'll be cleaning up rooms code, but I'll go back at mainly working on VT afterwards. This doesn't mean I'm quitting this project, I will still be here, and always a blabbermouth on forums, I guess, but I'll be less active for a while, since I want the next VT release to happen.

Best regards,

Thanks for your answer, i made this compilation a while ago; many of them could fit without trouble as bgm:

http://opengameart.org/content/candidat ... n-dungeons

And good luck with VT, dont doubt to ask for help if we can do something for you.

Hi,

Ok, I'll lower the music volume and add a brand new in-game music. (The current one can stay for the main menu, IMHO.)
Maybe you've already got one preference among the given files?

Thanks for VT. I won't be against some testing once the RC1 is out.

Best regards,

The most fitting i think is "searching", its not too intrusive or too loud. But seriously, i cant seem to fully like any of them, they are just the most fitting over at OGA, ill give imcopetech a go later.

Hi,

- On the github repo, I added the new music file, normalized both, getting rid of the volume problem and the SFML noises heard while playing.
- I made the new in-game music (Searching) played.
- I changed the tile z-scaling to 0.6.

As for the dojo crash happening more often. It might be caused by the fact that now there are three AIs, each building a dojo. Probably a race conditions in the threads.

I'll have a look at the weapons memory handling and see whether I can resurrect them later.

Best regards,

Actually i noticed something today, the walls dont really need to be taller, they are fine now (0.5, i have the old build), its the creatures that needs to be smaller; the just created kobold has a really good size, even if he doubles it by leveling up, that size is still good; but atm a high level kobold is 4 times bigger than a just created kobold.
So, i think, that just changing creatures sizes could be enougth to resolve our size-ratio problem, limiting creatures growth to be only one and half as big for a max level creature compared to a lv1 of the same kind (1.5 max high). Along with that, limiting how far up the camera can go, forcing your view to be somewhat close to your dungeon and less panoramic.

The root of all the size problem migth be the wild amount of levels a creature can go up, should they be capped to a more sensible one? like 10 or 20?

Hi

@Danimal:
I do think you're right about all that you said.
I'll thus put the tile z scaling back to 0.5, and limit the camera height a bit more.
If we cap the levels to 30, we have lvl 30 creatures at the requested max size (1.5x the the nominal size). Can I go with that value?
Afterward, the initial scaling will have to be balanced in the creatures.def file.

@Paul:
Your latest commit looks interesting but it seems your forgot to add several new source files making the compilation of the development branch impossible for others.
Could you commit them?
Also, could remove the dead function and code you left in your commit?
Ah, and could you brief us on how the culling manager should be working? What it does and how, since it seems a complicated piece. Thanks.

Regards,

I do think you're right about all that you said.
I'll thus put the tile z scaling back to 0.5, and limit the camera height a bit more.
If we cap the levels to 30, we have lvl 30 creatures at the requested max size (1.5x the the nominal size). Can I go with that value?
Afterward, the initial scaling will have to be balanced in the creatures.def file.

Sure, you know far more than i do on this, but having less oversized creatures on the dungeon will be better. As you say initial size will have to be thinkered later, kobolds should not be taller than lizardmans nor demons smallers than anything else. But thats is a matter for when a good tweaking is due.

Hi,

I do think you're right about all that you said.
I'll thus put the tile z scaling back to 0.5, and limit the camera height a bit more.
If we cap the levels to 30, we have lvl 30 creatures at the requested max size (1.5x the the nominal size). Can I go with that value?

Everything discussed above is done on the github repo.
Once I've pushed this on sourceforge, you'll be able to tweak it all easily.

Regards,

I've fixed the handling of weaponless creatures and removed the mem leak and potential crashes seen because of those.
The code seems to seek for the weapon/shield meshes and the files are there. I've still no idea why they are not shown in game yet.

This game is really unruly; are the weapons models actually into the repository?
It also makes me think we will need an "invisible" weapon, for the creatures without hands, or are the bugs also wielding weapons?

*Edit* They are not wielding weapons, i guess their basic attacks needs to be increased to compensate for the lack of upgradable waepon.

Hi,

Yes, maybe. I'll try to have a look at why the models don't show while fixing the Ogre warnings. (But after fixing the different room bugs.)

Bertram : I have had a hard time downloading your repository , but seeing what you have done is so GREAT !!!! You seem to fix the scaling issue and holes in the walls !!! Naah I feel so weak compared to you ... Could you look at my tile cullng algorithm ... just if it does make sense to you ... for some reason the area it should process is degenerated .... the heart of algorithm is in class SlopeWalk.cpp .

Hi Paul,

Bertram : I have had a hard time downloading your repository , but seeing what you have done is so GREAT !!!! You seem to fix the scaling issue and holes in the walls !!! Naah I feel so weak compared to you ...

Great that you were able to try it! I'm glad to get some feedback about it.
Please, don't feel weak at all, we all give what we can, with the time and energy we have. It's the common effort that matters, right?

Could you look at my tile cullng algorithm ... just if it does make sense to you ... for some reason the area it should process is degenerated .... the heart of algorithm is in class SlopeWalk.cpp .

As I've said here:
viewtopic.php?p=56067#p56067

It seems you've forgotten to add several files when commiting, including the SlopWalk.cpp file for instance, making the current development branch impossible to compile for other people.
Could you:
- commit the missing files?
- brief me a bit about what the culling manager is doing and how it is doing it? I'm the one feeling weak now.
- remove the dead code/functions you left, as ong as you don't need it anymore, of course.

Thanks a lot.

Hi guys, i dont post much lately but i read all posts from time to time, it seems you did some advances lately like proper cross-system compilation, graphic-culling and other minor fixes. Bertram, you seem to have cleaned the room class, are they working now by at least creating a doll each 3x3 in the training hall?. The reason is that with all of that we should be ready to update the frontpage with some new info and screens, its been without news for too long again; should you post a .exe of the new build i would even hand change creatures sizes to something adequate before taking the pics.

Hi Danimal

Hi guys, i dont post much lately but i read all posts from time to time, it seems you did some advances lately like proper cross-system compilation, graphic-culling and other minor fixes. Bertram, you seem to have cleaned the room class, are they working now by at least creating a doll each 3x3 in the training hall?.

Almost, I only had the time to push the fixed based room class (the mother of all), fixing a bug preventing from claiming walls next to room tiles which were there from the beginning of the game.
Adding the given features is my very next work for OD. Care to wait a few days?

The reason is that with all of that we should be ready to update the frontpage with some new info and screens, its been without news for too long again; should you post a .exe of the new build i would even hand change creatures sizes to something adequate before taking the pics.

Aye aye, Captain. Want it now or after the new room object handling?

Best regards,

Adding the given features is my very next work for OD. Care to wait a few days?

i will wait days, weeks or months

Want it now or after the new room object handling?

After would be better to show all of those crash dummies in the training hall

***Edit, when i have more time ill prepare the replacements for the doll (which have been around and unused for some time, they are even animated) , along with new textures for the room tiles; a carpet for the lair and wood tables for the training hall would be good?, i migh expand this into its own topic since we are still in need of defining the other rooms.

I did these ones specially for the training room awhile ago, they can be found on OGA, im not sure if they are into our repository:

@Danimal: Just asking to make sure. Do you really want a training dummy in the middle of a 3x3 square. Sounds like not a lot dummies to me, and it seems it would require rather big areas to get them performant.

Are we ok with this spec?

EDIT: I pushed a small proof of concept proving room objects (like dummies for training rooms) can now be deleted safely and placed anew:

(Don't mind the look of those, my linux drivers state is still shameful)
For now, I dumbly placed a training dummy every two tiles (for those who can test, the dummies are placed each time the room changes it size.) and I'll need the specs for each rooms "validated".
Are we ok to put a room object on the center of each complete 3x3 squares only? For each room types?
Are there special cases that I can code now?

(I'm not speaking about the portal or the temple which have one object placed on center of the room, of course.)

Can't wait for new textures and new models.

Best regards,

Are we ok to put a room object on the center of each complete 3x3 squares only?

yes, it sounds wasteful, but that forces the player to build a very big room, or a lot of smaller ones; not making him just build one room of each and forget forever; the player is forced to build more of them as their minion number increases so all of them can train at the same time, matter that wouldnt have any importance if you can fit dozens of them in a single room (we want to avoid this). The exception is that if there are 3 walls next to 3 room tiles a wall "active spot" is created (so a 3x3 room with walls and just an entrance has 4 "active spots")

For each room types?

Only for the ones that are actively used, AKA has "active spots"(training hall, library, workshop, torture room... and a few to be decided yet), the other kind has no "active spot" like the treasure room or lair, all its tiles can be used equally.
So i guess there are only two types of rooms, with or without "active spots"; And all that have active spots follow the 3x3 rule.

Are there special cases that I can code now?

Yes, i would say the forge, it follows the same 3x3 plus wall mechanic as the training hall, use only the anvil model for the "active spot" (some creatures use it as a bed, so its separated somewhere from the rest of the forge in the repository). Its not special, or functional yet, but its the only room besides the training hall with ready models.

Actually, once that the 3x3 rule is implemented, most rooms will just need unique 3d models for their "active spots" and tile texture, so it will be just copy&paste code for you ; Making those spots works can wait for a bit longer till the other most pressing matters are resolved, but meanwhile we can start filling them into the game even if just for show.