Troll

Troll

Postby Skorpio » 14 Nov 2010, 16:50

During the last weeks I tried a couple of times to bake a normal map for my old rock troll, but the results didn't look very well, so I decided to redo the whole model. Here's the new, untextured, high poly version:

Troll4.jpg
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Re: Troll

Postby riidom » 14 Nov 2010, 17:44

Wow nice! What software do you use ? And how do you do the retopology?

Two things I noticed: He has a wart precisely on the middle of the back, looks a bit like an artifact, I would either place it more random or take it away. And at the place where an ear would be, there is a rectangular structure, what looks a bit odd, as it is the only straight line in whole model, apart from mouth and face.

Impressive guy.. he looks quite friendly even, but I still would refuse to shake hands with him ;)
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Re: Troll

Postby svenskmand » 14 Nov 2010, 23:14

Nice model. Which faction is he for?
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Re: Troll

Postby Skorpio » 15 Nov 2010, 11:30

I sculpt in Sculptris and retopo in Blender, although I wish I had 3-D Coat's retopo tool.

svenskmand {l Wrote}:Nice model. Which faction is he for?

Corpars obviously.
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Re: Troll

Postby riidom » 15 Nov 2010, 11:34

yes, I read about 3D coats stuff, that would be great to have ;) Do you use blenders face-snapping tool for retopo? I saw a tutorial some time ago and tried it with an old model of mine, and it works quite nice http://www.blendercookie.com/2010/08/30 ... nd-normal/ . The screencast is from 2.5, but he says this feature is available in 2.49 as well.
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Re: Troll

Postby svenskmand » 15 Nov 2010, 11:49

Skorpio {l Wrote}:I sculpt in Sculptris and retopo in Blender, although I wish I had 3-D Coat's retopo tool.

svenskmand {l Wrote}:Nice model. Which faction is he for?

Corpars obviously.

It is supposed to be organic or solid rock? Why the name troll if it is a rock/gollem?
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Re: Troll

Postby Skorpio » 15 Nov 2010, 13:56

riidom {l Wrote}:yes, I read about 3D coats stuff, that would be great to have ;) Do you use blenders face-snapping tool for retopo? I saw a tutorial some time ago and tried it with an old model of mine, and it works quite nice http://www.blendercookie.com/2010/08/30 ... nd-normal/ . The screencast is from 2.5, but he says this feature is available in 2.49 as well.

Yes, that's the technique I use.

svenskmand {l Wrote}:It is supposed to be organic or solid rock? Why the name troll if it is a rock/gollem?

Does that mean you've never read a Discworld novel?! Shame on you! :)
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Re: Troll

Postby Bodsda » 15 Nov 2010, 14:16

Skorpio {l Wrote}:
riidom {l Wrote}:yes, I read about 3D coats stuff, that would be great to have ;) Do you use blenders face-snapping tool for retopo? I saw a tutorial some time ago and tried it with an old model of mine, and it works quite nice http://www.blendercookie.com/2010/08/30 ... nd-normal/ . The screencast is from 2.5, but he says this feature is available in 2.49 as well.

Yes, that's the technique I use.

svenskmand {l Wrote}:It is supposed to be organic or solid rock? Why the name troll if it is a rock/gollem?

Does that mean you've never read a Discworld novel?! Shame on you! :)


I vote we call him Ditritus :)

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Re: Troll

Postby svenskmand » 15 Nov 2010, 16:51

Skorpio {l Wrote}:Does that mean you've never read a Discworld novel?! Shame on you! :)

I cannot say I have. Is there a movie made from these novels :D
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Re: Troll

Postby Bodsda » 15 Nov 2010, 18:12

svenskmand {l Wrote}:
Skorpio {l Wrote}:Does that mean you've never read a Discworld novel?! Shame on you! :)

I cannot say I have. Is there a movie made from these novels :D

Yes. The hogfather, and The Colour of magic. Neither did the books justice tbh, but the hogfather was pretty good. They were not the best discworl choices if you ask me. Pyramids would have been much better

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Re: Troll

Postby Skorpio » 17 Nov 2010, 20:09

Here's the textured version. Perhaps I'll add some asymmetric details later.

Troll5.jpg
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Re: Troll

Postby svenskmand » 17 Nov 2010, 20:28

You know how to work those models :)
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Re: Troll

Postby Skorpio » 19 Nov 2010, 13:42

And here's the low poly version of Detritus. :) The high poly consists of 778000 triangles and the low poly of 556 tris. Now I'm gonna bake an AO map and I think he needs a spec map as well.

Troll_low.jpg
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Re: Troll

Postby svenskmand » 19 Nov 2010, 15:37

Pretty nice :)
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Re: Troll

Postby Skorpio » 19 Nov 2010, 18:18

I've baked AO and created a spec map now, but there's no big difference to the last screenshot. I'm gonna rig the model tomorrow and create some animations.
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Re: Troll

Postby Skorpio » 22 Nov 2010, 14:45

I didn't have much time to work on Detritus last weekend, but he's rigged now and has a basic walk animation. I'm adding the rest of the base animations now.

Speaking of animations, will the current game speed be the default speed in the future? The animations look a bit too fast now and I'd have to adjust them and re-export the models if we want to use this game speed.
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Re: Troll

Postby andrewbuck » 22 Nov 2010, 16:16

Glad to hear you have the animations working. We will have to figure out the turns per second we want to use in the final game. For now I am using 1.4 because it makes it a lot easier to debug the game when it runs faster. The animations did look right at 1 turn per second but that seems a bit slow for the game, unless we increase the creatures movement speeds so they don't spend so many turns walking places. I also have to set up some sort of "stride length" system. I am thinking about putting a stride length parameter in the level file and then if the walk animation is playing instead of advancing it by the amount of time elapsed you advance it based on how far the creature has moved. I kind of get that effect now by increasing the animation advance time proportional to the creature's movement speed but this has the effect of speeding up the other animations as well.

Ultimately though, different people are going to play the game at different speeds so the animations will see some variation anyway and there is really nothing I think we can, or should, do about this. As long as the animations look reasonably correct over the likely range of speeds the game will run at they should be alright.

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Re: Troll

Postby svenskmand » 22 Nov 2010, 16:58

I do not think we should have different game speeds. I assume you are talking about game speeds like in StarCraft, and everybody always plays on the highest anyway so, there is no point in being able to wary it. It will surely be the same here.

So I think we should just decide on a game speed and then adjust the animations to that.
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Re: Troll

Postby andrewbuck » 22 Nov 2010, 18:31

It's hard when you are a new player playing at the highest game speed though. I always started with the default speed on Starcraft and then increased it as I got better. I think a lot of people do this, less serious gamers especially.

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Re: Troll

Postby charlie » 22 Nov 2010, 21:16

Can't you set the default speed in an ini file and have variable game speed? Shouldn't be hard to do... then you can have a sane default and the devs can set it higher by changing the file.

Or use a key... +/- to increase/decrease game speed.
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Re: Troll

Postby andrewbuck » 22 Nov 2010, 21:19

I had thought about having a config file. The mouse movement speed is something that could be kept there as well. I can try to look into the preferences file approach in the next few days.

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Re: Troll

Postby oln » 22 Nov 2010, 22:06

Regarding the mouse movement, I did a change to how the mouse movement is injected to CEGUI, and setting the absolute position, instead of giving the relative position fixed the mouse speed issue, and made movement more smooth. If this seems better for other people as well there may not be as much point in having the mousespeed thing as it won't do anything. Will commit this when I've got some more audio stuff working. A config file would be nice though.
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Re: Troll

Postby svenskmand » 23 Nov 2010, 00:40

andrewbuck {l Wrote}:It's hard when you are a new player playing at the highest game speed though. I always started with the default speed on Starcraft and then increased it as I got better. I think a lot of people do this, less serious gamers especially.

-Buck

Yes but there you had the possibility to change the game speed, have you ever missed that feature in DK 1 or 2? Or Evil Genius for that matter?

charlie {l Wrote}:Can't you set the default speed in an ini file and have variable game speed? Shouldn't be hard to do... then you can have a sane default and the devs can set it higher by changing the file.

Or use a key... +/- to increase/decrease game speed.

I think Charlie has the right solution here, just make some keys for it that are for developer mode only. Hence it should not be possible to change the game speed in the final game.

oln {l Wrote}:Regarding the mouse movement, I did a change to how the mouse movement is injected to CEGUI, and setting the absolute position, instead of giving the relative position fixed the mouse speed issue, and made movement more smooth. If this seems better for other people as well there may not be as much point in having the mousespeed thing as it won't do anything. Will commit this when I've got some more audio stuff working. A config file would be nice though.

Nice I cannot wait to try this out, the mouse as it is now is REALLY annoying :(
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Re: Troll

Postby andrewbuck » 23 Nov 2010, 00:41

Dungeon keeper 2 had a setting for this that you could change and I did use it.

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Re: Troll

Postby svenskmand » 23 Nov 2010, 00:44

Ok, but maybe that was a mistake, I at least thing it was :S I think the developer keys are the solution (then we also do not have to worry about the animations).
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