The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Danimal » 09 Jun 2014, 21:14

Hi guys, bertram i like that really easy to modifty implementation of room needs, room spot is a good option, we should try to be as user friendly as possible, i foresee player contributions will be one strong point for us, just like battle for wesnoth.

Paul thats not really retouch, what we have is basically a placeholder with a convenient shape. Since ill be making room props before anything else i think finishing all working rooms has priority, espexially when comparing character models which takes 2 or 3 weeks to room prop that takes 1 day or two of work.
And you see, there are rooms that are only on the planning phase and i dont think they will be done in this batch, so better to have all of the present ones ready to work
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby MCMic » 10 Jun 2014, 09:10

I agree with paul on treasury models not being a priority.
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Bertram » 10 Jun 2014, 13:07

Heya guys, :)

I do think also that multiple logging (using wxWidgets/Qt), or adding support for the game accelerometer aren't priorities either. We have much more vital game mechanisms to fix first.
That said, I do not think one should dampen contributions, especially "small" ones like treasure chests. We are all working on what we fancy after all, right?

What I wouldn't like to see, on the other hand, is half-finished stuff being merged, be it code of art, but I guess it's a rather obvious saying. ;)

In conclusion, if Danimal can give us a few nice-looking models making it all better, why should we say no to it?

Unrelated, can someone have a look at my spawning conditions proposal and give me advice about how we should add it to the current data format?
Oh, and maybe tell me whether my latest patches are ok to be merged back.

Thanks.
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby MCMic » 10 Jun 2014, 15:01

I’d say the spawn conditions can go directly in the creature definition.
You may want to add a keyword like “room” so that if later we want to add other condition types it’s possible (creatures only comming if you got other creatures, or some weapon they like, …)
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Bertram » 10 Jun 2014, 15:35

Hi MCMic,

Something like this, for instance?

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
[Creature]
# Class className creatureJob meshName bedMeshName bedDim1 bedDim2 scaleX scaleY scaleZ hp/level mana/level maxHP maxMana sightRadius digRate danceRate moveSpeed TilePassability
Class Wyvern WeakFighter Wyvern.mesh Bed 2 2 0.35 0.35 0.35 2 2 60 60 15 0 0 1.5 flyableTile

# SpawnCondition Room <RoomName> <Active spots needed to spawn>
SpawnCondition Room Library 3

# SpawnCondition Weapon <WeaponName>
SpawnCondition Weapon Shield

# SpawnCondition Creature <CreatureName> <YES/NO> (YES, must be owned by player, NO: Must not be owned by player)
SpawnCondition Creature Dwarf1 NO
SpawnCondition Creature PitDemon YES
[/Creature]
...


I'm assuming each condition is linked by logical AND.

Regards,
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Danimal » 10 Jun 2014, 19:51

I like the creatures synergy, but not the exclusion. If two creatures dont like their species it should just be a minus to their total mood, so if conditions in the dungeon decrease overall (no money, no food...) they will be more prone to go rogue on the spot.
And i like the idea of having certain creatures as requesites, say, having flies attracts spiders, flies wont like that much thougth, so maybe a hated creature value can be added? Pit demons would need cultist... But its not something to be overabused, it can get boring having to babysit creatures just to get another one, the idea is that all of them are expendable.
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby paul424 » 10 Jun 2014, 23:53

Danimal is like a cat -- his own master. You cannot give him requests, cause that only frustrates him. :/ .
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Danimal » 11 Jun 2014, 00:20

Meow, im somewhat inflexive i know, but im just trying to keep everything sensibly balanced from a player perpective. We dont want to end up again planning trap trigger chains, and forcing playstyles that feel like working at the office. But im always open to everyones opinion, its just that i would prefer having the rooms fully reworked before moving to something else and leaving half finished work.




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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Dm3d » 11 Jun 2014, 02:17

Hey guys, I just put a chicken coop model up on open game art. hopefully it will be of some use ;)

http://opengameart.org/content/chicken-coop
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Bertram » 11 Jun 2014, 09:35

its just that i would prefer having the rooms fully reworked before moving to something else and leaving half finished work.

In the essence, I guess we agree.

But its not something to be overabused, it can get boring having to babysit creatures just to get another one, the idea is that all of them are expendable.

I, for one, liked the fact that we, devs, provide features with some thorough tests on our own of course, and that you, Danimal, acts as the Great Keeper of the Player's point of view and balance things. So I'd say, let's add the feature, (it's "just" plain core logic), letting you able to tweak the spawn conditions, just like you tweaked the creatures scales and stats already.

Now, for our latest cat's requests: ;)

I like the creatures synergy, but not the exclusion. If two creatures dont like their species it should just be a minus to their total mood, so if conditions in the dungeon decrease overall (no money, no food...) they will be more prone to go rogue on the spot.

If I merge all latest comments as workable data, would this do, for instance? (Don't mind the example values too much, but rather their format and what's overall introduced.)

Creatures will have a new mood stat that starts at 100, and moves up/down according to the drowsiness, number of other creatures, (Recomputed each time a creature in the team spawns or dies), hp, or gold amount.
When reaching 0, the creature will start fighting other creatures it dislikes, or flee when seeing other enemy creatures. When it sleeps, it can go back up to 50 max.

And the new creatures.def format:
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
[Creature]

[Stats]
# <className> <creatureJob> <meshName> <bedMeshName> <bedDim1> <bedDim2> <scaleX> <scaleY> <scaleZ> <hp/level> <mana/level> <maxHP> <maxMana> <sightRadius> <digRate> <danceRate> <moveSpeed> <TilePassability>
Wyvern WeakFighter Wyvern.mesh Bed 2 2 0.35 0.35 0.35 2 2 60 60 15 0 0 1.5 flyableTile

# Note: ^ will have to be added:
#  initial attack, initial defence, initial Magical Attack, initial magical def, initial level
# atk / level, def /level, MAtk / level, MDef / level, max level
# starting-equipment name <-- To be taken from an equipment list in a config file.
# Water and lava tile walkability has to be added separately (keeping the flyable tile for flying creatures)

# Note bis:
# A new material parameter will have to added, so we can easily override the material name used for the creature.

[/Stats]

# MP will be dropped in favour of a Skill parameter with a skill name taken from a config file listing their effects.
# Here will be listed the creature's skills and its own cooldowns.
[Skills]
# <Skill name> <Cool down in milliseconds>
FireBall 8000
Heal 25000
[/Skills]

[SpawnConditions]
# Room: <RoomName> <Active spots needed to spawn>
Room: Library 3
Room: TrainingHall 1

# Weapon: <WeaponName>
Weapon: Shield

#Gold: <Minimum gold to attract>
Gold: 5000

# Creature: <CreatureName> <Mood modifier>
CreatureMood: Dwarf1 -5
CreatureMood: PitDemon 10

# GoldMood: <Minimum Gold to not apply> <Mood modifier>
GoldMood: 1000 -5
[/SpawnConditions]

[/Creature]

What do you think?

Regards,
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby MCMic » 11 Jun 2014, 11:44

Yep, the format seems good.
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Danimal » 11 Jun 2014, 15:19

I like that mood system bertram

Dm3d: yes its a pretty Nice model, it will go in with just minor changes (roof color to red and opening small door; thanks for your contribution and head ups in our forum :)
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Bertram » 11 Jun 2014, 15:46

I like that mood system bertram

Yep, the format seems good.

Thanks guys. Yet, by re-reading it, I do think mood conditions should be put out of the spawn conditions since they have nothing to do with them.
I mean, a creature will be attracted by rooms, weapons or gold, at first, and then its mood will be increasing/decreasing according the other creatures or gold running out, ...
Is this ok for you?

Thanks for the Chicken coop, Dm3D :)
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby MCMic » 11 Jun 2014, 16:34

Yeah, put the mood conditions in a separated section.
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Bertram » 11 Jun 2014, 22:35

Hi,

Some eye candy :)
ODscreenshot_1.png

Btw, the bookcase model is way too big. Could you resize it, Danimal?

Regards,
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Danimal » 12 Jun 2014, 00:01

Nice :) , the resize will have to wait until i return home; btw is the carpet reflecting ligth?
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Bertram » 12 Jun 2014, 08:28

Nice :) , the resize will have to wait until i return home; btw is the carpet reflecting ligth?

Np. I've used bookshelves for now.
As for the carpet, my drivers are so lame I just don't really know. ;)
I'll have a look on Windows somewhere next week.
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Danimal » 12 Jun 2014, 13:39

Bertram, should i recenter the wall models to make them closer to the wall? Also, its imposible to change sizes of room objects incode? I need to know it so i can properly export and we avoid ugly code tweaking.
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Bertram » 12 Jun 2014, 13:57

Hi :)

Also, its imposible to change sizes of room objects incode?

It is possible, in fact, but involves hard-coding for now. It is IMHO simpler if the models are in the correct scale, but it's up to you.
Note that I had to hardcode the rotation, for instance, now you speak about this, and that might cause problems with biomes.
I guess we'll need a config file for room/equipment/creatures models so tweaking is very easy?

should i recenter the wall models to make them closer to the wall?

According to the API, I should be able to adapt the room object code, so we can specify a relative offset from the tile center.
But it would remain hard-coding until we have some config file for that.
Again, it's up to your will to adapt this on the model level or not.

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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Danimal » 12 Jun 2014, 14:20

I prefer to export them as they are supposed to look, its easier than changing code :)
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby MCMic » 12 Jun 2014, 15:23

@Bertram, what pops to my mind when reading the Library commit:
Both createMesh and numOpenCreatureSlots seems pretty generic, why aren’t they in Room class? The only specific things are the name of the central mesh and the name of the wall mesh which should be class static attributes (or at least attributes if we later want room instances to change object meshes in some cases). A class which does not use such meshes will just let them empty.
Code about the 4 directions repeat itself, we should have a left/up/right/down enum and have a vector of 4 for each wall related stuff.
Room cost and room name should be class static attributes (mType should be static too imo).

[EDIT]My bad, inheritance and static types does not behave as I thought in C++ so some of my remarks can’t be applied
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby MCMic » 12 Jun 2014, 16:24

Ok, the more I think about this and the more I think the best solution seems to be having a vector of room types containing a struct with informations like price, meshes, name, …
And that makes me think, maybe it’s time to make use of this script engine. Instead of having a C++ class for each room we use files which describes the room properties and a file script which contains the room main behaviour. That would allow to easily mod the game by adding or modifying rooms.
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Bertram » 12 Jun 2014, 17:04

Hi MCMic,

Both createMesh and numOpenCreatureSlots seems pretty generic, why aren’t they in Room class? The only specific things are the name of the central mesh and the name of the wall mesh which should be class static attributes (or at least attributes if we later want room instances to change object meshes in some cases). A class which does not use such meshes will just let them empty.
Code about the 4 directions repeat itself, we should have a left/up/right/down enum and have a vector of 4 for each wall related stuff.

While the current code is cleaner than the previous way of doing things, it is clearly some lazy one when it comes to recreate meshes.
I agree for the training hall/dojo, forge and library about the fact that the creature slots and meshes creation are pretty common, and may be factored somehow.
I simply did that way to start somewhere (as I must say I still don't really know what room is still planned.), and for simplicity. As you already know, the temple, sleep, treasury and portal rooms behave more specifically.

Ok, the more I think about this and the more I think the best solution seems to be having a vector of room types containing a struct with informations like price, meshes, name, …
And that makes me think, maybe it’s time to make use of this script engine. Instead of having a C++ class for each room we use files which describes the room properties and a file script which contains the room main behaviour. That would allow to easily mod the game by adding or modifying rooms.

I agree with you about this. I would, yet, go for it into two steps. First, add support for room and models config files, and then have a start at using AS there.
I'm not planning to work on that now though, as I'd like to go back to the tileset config and creature stats once we have most of the desired rooms in the box, even if slightly hard-coded for now, so we can get better spawn conditions, and start to have a more overall interesting and challenging game. :)
Then, I'll start working on the AI v2. The one attacking. :twisted:

What are your own plans MCMic, btw?

Regards,
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Danimal » 15 Jun 2014, 23:24

And im back into action:

Bookshelf: bigger and changed position, i need your confirmation its now closer to the wall
Bookcase: Made a lot smaller, its a center room object
Podium: made smaller, center room object

I think now the scales are more realist.
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Re: The "Lets get ready the rooms models" topic

Postby Danimal » 16 Jun 2014, 01:06

And chicken coop for the farm by Dm3d
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