old TODO list for art assets -- Obsolete

old TODO list for art assets -- Obsolete

Postby Skorpio » 18 Mar 2014, 16:51

I think we need to create a todo thread for art assets, so that the artists can easily pick a task and inform the others on what they're working. Since I'm not really up-to-date, you guys have to help me coming up with a list of needed assets.

Also, we have to establish a style guide for models. The poly count is less important, but it shouldn't be too high (maybe around 5000 tris). Models should be detailed and have normal (baked from hi-poly models) and specularity maps. Some questions: Do we want to have exchangeable or simple, merged clothes and armor? Do we need LoD models? What animations do we need? What universal rig do we use?

The most difficult part will be elaborating a distinctive art style which sets our game apart from others. Our current models are a little generic and it would help our game in the long run to come up with a unique look. Team Fortress 2 is probably the best example for a unique art style, however, I don't want to copy it and rather not make something too comic-like. Another interesting example would be the slightly disproportioned faces of the characters in Brink.

Example models of the general art direction that I have in mind would be thecubber's Dwarf (although too high poly) and the Orc (who could be a bit more detailed).
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Danimal » 18 Mar 2014, 20:25

Hi skorpio, in one of the meetings the guys decided that the adventurer style wasnt bad, realistic but colorful and a little exagerated armor was a consensus. I think that the orc could benefit a lot from a metal armor or more elaborated leather armor rather than the simplistic one it has now. Perhaps changing his face as well and making it a bit more WOW-like since the face is kind of bland looking.

I think the 3k-5k tris is good mark, the difference in quality is quite noticiable (try the lastest version and see how the adventurer stands out a lot among the rest; hes around 3k tris, how much were the others? less 1k i guess).

On our model to-do the hero faction remains the same as the list posted as a sticky, the keeper creatures are not decided yet, but they will be mix of the other factions we had planned, so in there goes the lamia, skeletons, walocks, spiders, flies, dragon, demon...

I would like you to have a look at this post and give your vote if you like something to be used here:

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=4400#p45248
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Danimal » 18 Mar 2014, 20:30

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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Skorpio » 19 Mar 2014, 12:08

A happy, colorful game is exactly what I don't want. Our theme is dark, damp and dangerous, and I think we should stick to that (combined with some malicious humor to round it off). The game is actually way too colorful at the moment and I'd like to tone it down. If the consensus is to use a comic theme, then my desire to contribute would diminish quite a lot.

Regarding the Orc, I mentioned already that he could be more detailed. I didn't add enough grime and damages to the armor. The textures can be updated relative easily, but adding new geometry will be troublesome. Here's what I meant with the additional details:
OrcD4.jpg

Btw, the face of the adventurer looks a bit bland as well. I think the faces of the models should be sculpted. This will also be important if we ever implement a first person mode.
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Elvano » 19 Mar 2014, 12:28

Skorpio {l Wrote}:we have to establish a style guide for models.

I had the same thing in mind in like, forever ;o

Skorpio {l Wrote}:The game is actually way too colorful at the moment.

Lol: [url="http://www.dungeonkeeper.com/"]our source of inspiration[/url]

Skorpio {l Wrote}: I think the faces of the models should be sculpted

I don't think such techniques should be a guideline.
I prefere to work with edge-modeling myself on faces ;o

I also think we should only use models that have been specificly made for OD, though.
I don't know how many have been needlesly plucked out of the OGA database.

Guidelines ought to also include how rooms and such are integrated.
  • Wat elements (walls, furniture, floor, randomness segments, ...)
  • How many tiles before furniture is placed, walls are repeated, room is usable...
  • How does a room place furniture (filling it up: temple, add object every 3x3 tiles: library, place object every tile: lair , ...)
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Skorpio » 19 Mar 2014, 13:29

Elvano {l Wrote}:
Skorpio {l Wrote}:The game is actually way too colorful at the moment.

Lol: [url="http://www.dungeonkeeper.com/"]our source of inspiration[/url]

We never wanted to make a clone and especially not copy the graphics. The lights in DK2 were way too colorful for my taste.
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Danimal » 19 Mar 2014, 14:21

i concur with you on the dark colours Skorpio, but that doesnt mean we can only use brown or blacks. All colours should be used even if they are darkened.

What i couldnt explain well before is that most of our current models looks almost the same from above, be it the orc, ogre or troll, same roundish shoulders. I also know the face of the adventurer is sloppy and you had to redraw it, but what i meant is that it has more of less human shape, the orc could benefit from more exagerated factions (like a more prominent jaw or eyebrows). Im sure being able to work with more polis will fix the issue of creatures looking somewhat alike (lets pimp up their armors!).

Elvano: never refuse something thats already done and good; if a model in oga can be used with little effort and fits the style, it should be welcome, especially with our current lack of good models.

Yeah , we can also sculpt the faces and make normals out of it, i remember this game (heroes 6), and it has a nice effect even being low poli faces:

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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby charlie » 19 Mar 2014, 15:03

I wouldn't set the bar too high. How about actually getting some close-to-desired-style models in the game first before requiring they look like they belong in an AAA title?

For example, Skorpio you rag a bit on that orc, but it's an improvement already and that alone should make putting it in game a high priority. As for facial detail - really, this is an RTS. You don't see the faces in much detail. Yeah, maybe you want to implement creature vision and be able to go eye to eye with your enemy and see the hairs in his nostrils, but one step at a time?

Open source project > volunteer driven > limited time and resources > identify what can be REALISTICALLY done and get that done first.

/ friendly advice
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Dm3d » 11 Jun 2014, 18:07

One possible way to keep the art style congruent would be keeping a "Tileable Textures Pack" for 3D artist to use for their submissions. Even if they choose not to use them, it should give them a general idea of the desired color scheme/feel of the game's art direction. Also, it might help speed up art contributions and give newer artist smaller task such as re-texturing older models and newer models from other sources. I'd be more then happy to help create some tileable textures, once the direction is agreed upon. ;)
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Danimal » 11 Jun 2014, 20:06

You mean something like dawbringer palette?, i would say without any doubt to use yegeues ( did i come close to the actual name?) textures , they are top quality. Also Oga is my main source of textures, good stuff there.

As for models its a bit harder but we kind of settled up into realism with nice colours, somewath imposed by the models we have already. We have also decided to use " ancient beast" models and concepts, have a look at them, they are gorgeus but mostly half finished, so by completing them we both benefit.

But i wont refuse at all any help we can get, if you want to contribute you are fully welcome, we are already using some of your models even.

And this has made me think i need to create an artist Todo to reflect our real needs and ease contributions.
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby paul424 » 11 Jun 2014, 20:59

Tileable Textures Pack

Sorry, waht do you mean by that ? Giving a pack of textures which could be placed on a quads ? Like the pack of example textures ? Donno whether does it make sense, cause with the producction as ours we just cheer up when we get fully textured model ( spec, diff, normals ) .... Most of the game monsters doesn't have those three ... >_>, as a begginer you could convert the models to ogre3d format : viewtopic.php?f=35&t=4400 . Also if you don't have much of a plan to help on longer terms better is to be silent than to stir unneeded dust ...
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Bertram » 11 Jun 2014, 21:23

Also if you don't have much of a plan to help on longer terms better is to be silent than to stir unneeded dust ...

What the..., you didn't just ask a new contributor to sh*t up, did you?!?

Paul, where are your manners?
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Dm3d » 11 Jun 2014, 22:01

Danimal {l Wrote}:You mean something like dawbringer palette?


In a sense, yes.

for example, http://postimg.org/image/8dah6t6en/ < all of these textures are of wood grain. they vary mostly by color and the far right ones by style. but, let's say your making a table set and for the table itself you use the top left one. but for the chairs you use the lower middle one. they're probably not going to mesh together well unless you recolorize and fade/rough up the latter texture.

I think something as simple as having sets of uniform wood grain/stone/metal/dirt textures would greatly aid in congruency. that way no matter what the 3d artist is contributing ; weather it be a bed,support beam,weapon or door. it isn't going to prominently contrast with anything else in the dungeon. this will also help facilitate retexturing models that can't be replaced later on down the road.

paul424 {l Wrote}:as a begginer you could convert the models to ogre3d format : viewtopic.php?f=35&t=4400.

Is there a time they're needed by?


paul424 {l Wrote}: Also if you don't have much of a plan to help on longer terms better is to be silent than to stir unneeded dust ...

sorry you feel that way. I actually planned to start contributing more to the project, now that things have "stabilized" for me. I guess I'll try my hardest until I become something other then a dust bunny ;)
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Danimal » 11 Jun 2014, 23:25

Wow... Md3dm please dont take paul too seriously and get discouraged. Your texture pack would be a good addition but maybe too wide in scope (aka a lot of work for you) ill be happy to add it to a sticky.

Should you want to help with simple models instead the new rooms will need a lot. Like our outpost (named barracks in post), doors (wood, reinforced, metal...), traps, beds for monsters... There is no end to needed models.

You can also try to start a new character or complete one from ancient beast, but is a lot of work as you should known. Are you a good animator? We have some that only need to be animated and can be exported rigth away (pirate, golem...)

I wouldnt touch the list paul gave you before, i need to cut down many things from there.
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Dm3d » 12 Jun 2014, 00:09

Danimal {l Wrote}:Your texture pack would be a good addition but maybe too wide in scope (aka a lot of work for you) ill be happy to add it to a sticky.

No worries. it was more a "as the project goes" type ideal.

Danimal {l Wrote}:Should you want to help with simple models instead the new rooms will need a lot. Like our outpost (named barracks in post), doors (wood, reinforced, metal...), traps, beds for monsters... There is no end to needed models.

You can also try to start a new character or complete one from ancient beast, but is a lot of work as you should known. Are you a good animator? We have some that only need to be animated and can be exported rigth away (pirate, golem...)


Sadly, character modeling has never been my strong point ( just can't get the topology sometimes ). but I'm a fairly decent animator, texturerer and object modeler. so, I could probably fix up some armor and weapons for them, if needed. are these models inside the "mediaSource" folder or are they else where?

Btw: Is there an updated list of content needed anywhere? thanks :D .
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Re: TODO list for art assets

Postby Danimal » 12 Jun 2014, 00:33

Could you try animating the golem from blendswap? The grey and green one, thats an almost complete model. (Inside paul list)

There is no updated list, ill do as soon as i can, im away from my pc and my cell phone is no good replacement for it, that would be next monday.
EDIT[from paul424] : wooha wait some goles are already in our media repository , already converted let's not double the work ! :D The Bettle Gollem for example :D ( it was done when Elvano had been listening to me , yet:( )
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Re: old TODO list for art assets -- Obsolete

Postby Elvano » 22 Jun 2014, 09:46

And here we go again...

We find a nice model and think: "hey! We should totally add this!!"
Without thinking as much if it would fit in.

as a begginer you could convert the models to ogre3d format

Yea because from mindlessly converting models (we don't need) from one format to another you get a real expert at 3D or textures.

A base pack of textures wouldn't be bad at all.
It doesn't even need to be only (tillable) textures for surroundings but even default materials such as skin, leather, scratched metal and wood could be very useful.

Do mind, however, that you should be willing to let others make adjustments to your textures if they feel the need to do this for one of their models.
Naturally they will do this on a copy of the texture and never on the original one.

If you feel like an experienced texturer, feel free to share with us some tricks, hints and methods.
Also, in disregard of your experience level you may always ask us any questions you may have.
Some of us may bark at times, but have never actually bitten anyone.
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Re: old TODO list for art assets -- Obsolete

Postby Danimal » 22 Jun 2014, 14:43

Sad thing is that is was exported without animations, so when we finally get it working we should erase all files related to the beetle golem which will be renamed to something more gamelike.
Im fine with the texture repository, it can help us and we always have the net to look for needed ones
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Re: old TODO list for art assets -- Obsolete

Postby Dm3d » 22 Jun 2014, 21:06

Elvano {l Wrote}:And here we go again...

We find a nice model and think: "hey! We should totally add this!!"
Without thinking as much if it would fit in.


that too has crossed my mind.. If it's purely a place holder model needed for implementing certain features, that can be over looked. but just throwing everything in and the kitchen sink probably isn't the greatest ideal in the long run. creates more work and waste contributor power best spent else where.

Elvano {l Wrote}:A base pack of textures wouldn't be bad at all.
It doesn't even need to be only (tillable) textures for surroundings but even default materials such as skin, leather, scratched metal and wood could be very useful.

Yes, excellent point! I tend to be too specific when posting about a topic.

Elvano {l Wrote}:Do mind, however, that you should be willing to let others make adjustments to your textures if they feel the need to do this for one of their models.
Naturally they will do this on a copy of the texture and never on the original one.

Agreed. the artist should have as much leeway as they desire. for example, they don't have to just take a "wood boards" texture and use it as it. they can take two,three or even four different textures and combine them. see the crudely made image attached.

Elvano {l Wrote}:If you feel like an experienced texturer, feel free to share with us some tricks, hints and methods.
Also, in disregard of your experience level you may always ask us any questions you may have.
Some of us may bark at times, but have never actually bitten anyone.


I would be more then happy to explain( to the best of my ability) how I achieve anything I submit ;) and I'll probably need alot of help later on, especially pertaining to blender, so that's great to hear. also, I understand Paul's point of view. while blunt, it wasn't completely unfounded.
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They could take one "wood boards" texture and use a different "wood grain" texture.
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Re: old TODO list for art assets -- Obsolete

Postby Danimal » 22 Jun 2014, 22:55

Elvano wrote:And here we go again...

We find a nice model and think: "hey! We should totally add this!!"
Without thinking as much if it would fit in.

that too has crossed my mind.. If it's purely a place holder model needed for implementing certain features, that can be over looked. but just throwing everything in and the kitchen sink probably isn't the greatest ideal in the long run. creates more work and waste contributor power best spent else where.


I tried to update the new list with the most fitting and somehow consistant style (if that is possible taking from so many sources), and sincerely most of our ingame models look really bad. We cant over-exagerate how many we add, but the current state of models is pretty sad.
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Re: old TODO list for art assets -- Obsolete

Postby Dm3d » 23 Jun 2014, 01:38

Danimal {l Wrote}:
Elvano wrote:And here we go again...

We find a nice model and think: "hey! We should totally add this!!"
Without thinking as much if it would fit in.

that too has crossed my mind.. If it's purely a place holder model needed for implementing certain features, that can be over looked. but just throwing everything in and the kitchen sink probably isn't the greatest ideal in the long run. creates more work and waste contributor power best spent else where.


I tried to update the new list with the most fitting and somehow consistant style (if that is possible taking from so many sources), and sincerely most of our ingame models look really bad. We cant over-exagerate how many we add, but the current state of models is pretty sad.


and you did an excellent job. aesthetically, they're very similar. but I think what Elvano means by "fit in" is more from a game design standpoint(at least that's what my perspective was in my replay).

I really hate being blunt, but doing a quick count in my media sources folder there's over 20 creatures in there and That's a pretty decent number of creatures. but then add the potential 13(non-concept art) from the new list and the ones ancient beast... your looking upwards of 33-40+ creatures!

maybe the best course of action is to start removing creatures. even if we're left with just a handful creatures and we're stuck waiting for concept art to be made into 3d. doing this would free up people to actually work on making that concept art into 3d, or start polishing up older lowpoly models and making room props and traps. sometimes more is less...
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Re: old TODO list for art assets -- Obsolete

Postby Danimal » 23 Jun 2014, 10:34

That would be a bit hard, if we erase all low poly (bad looking) models we end up with only 4 models for hero side and over 6 for keepers. So i just consider them placeholders until new ones arrive.

The list is big but its not like they will be done anytime soon, all human models have a place (they are kinda generic) but monster models are a problem for me, there are not enough existing ones that can be just animated and used, and most look bad or uninspired. For that reason ancient beast ones are a bless, we just need to take and prepare a few, there is NO WAY we are doing all of them, but they have a freshness i cant find anywhere else and could settle us aside from the rest.

But i guess ill have to redo the creature list so we decide which ones to include first (but ill always give priority to an almost ready models over an incomplete one)
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Re: old TODO list for art assets -- Obsolete

Postby MCMic » 23 Jun 2014, 11:11

We should have on the wiki an up to date list about which creatures we want, and in what state they are currently. Same thing for rooms.
And maybe adding all creatures and room in the code even if using placeholder models for now would not be such a bad thing
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