Some new models

Re: Some new models

Postby Skorpio » 28 Dec 2012, 20:47

Yeah, the tail should be bigger. I'd also change the face and the colors (red green is a very harsh contrast). The skin color could also be more reddish, or more greenish if you want to make it look more reptilian. Here's another paint over, since that is easier than describing everything. BTW, we should better start separate threads for individual models.
Lamia_paintover.jpg
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Re: Some new models

Postby Danimal » 28 Dec 2012, 20:58

Skorpio i hate you in a quite respectul way... :cry:
Ill add those changes to the model, so you think nothing else could be added in terms of jewelry? Also, how should i tackle the hair? solid mesh for the front mane (over head and shoulders) and simple mesh with alpha for the ponytail?
Regarding the tail scales, how in the world could they be done? sculpted for a normal map(sounds painful to go one by one)? just texture paint? any other sugestion?
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Re: Some new models

Postby Skorpio » 28 Dec 2012, 21:25

Danimal {l Wrote}:Skorpio i hate you in a quite respectul way... :cry:
Hehe. :) You should try to paint over your renders as well, since you can check out lots of variations in a short time that way.

Danimal {l Wrote}:Ill add those changes to the model, so you think nothing else could be added in terms of jewelry?
A necklace and tattoos could be nice as you mentioned.

Danimal {l Wrote}:Also, how should i tackle the hair? solid mesh for the front mane (over head and shoulders) and simple mesh with alpha for the ponytail?
Yep, I think that should work.

Danimal {l Wrote}:Regarding the tail scales, how in the world could they be done? sculpted for a normal map(sounds painful to go one by one)? just texture paint? any other sugestion?

I think you could generate a normal map from a color texture or bump map that is mapped to the tail.
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Re: Some new models

Postby Skorpio » 28 Dec 2012, 21:47

Speaking of hair and normal maps, do you know the the Varga tutorial?
http://www.paultosca.com/makingofvarga.html
http://www.paultosca.com/varga_hair.html
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Re: Some new models

Postby Danimal » 02 Jan 2013, 16:32

That Vargas tutorial is amazing, but the hair is too messy and i dont know how to apply it to my model, i found another tutorial that explains quite well how to do it. The bad is that the polys skyrocket with that hair, but if the result is good i can try another "cheaper" approach:

http://www.cgmasters.net/free-tutorials ... -modeling/
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Re: Some new models

Postby ctdabomb » 02 Jan 2013, 17:30

Some people are like slinkies... not really good for anything, but you still can't help smiling when you shove them down the stairs.
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Re: Some new models

Postby Danimal » 02 Jan 2013, 21:30

The mesh hair looks great, the high poly count is the only bad thing, i dont think alpha-hair suits here, so whats your opinion skorpio?
Also, thanks for the link Ctdabomb, ill give a good look, but its not useful for this model. I also moified the face to make more similar to your makeover.
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Re: Some new models

Postby Skorpio » 02 Jan 2013, 23:21

The face and hair look better now, only the hair line is too high. Or is the forehead too big? Maybe you could combine the hair with some alpha strands if the poly count gets too high, but I think it looks already good now (could be a little bit more curvy, though). How high is the poly count (hair and body)?

Edit: I wonder what's more efficient in-game, the mesh hair with higher poly count or alpha hair?
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Re: Some new models

Postby Danimal » 03 Jan 2013, 00:14

The model wit all props and NO HAIR over 2700 vertex and faces, but the hair... its an evil thing, 3460 vertex. Im sure theres got to be another way to do it, but im kind of blocked, see it for yourself. The back of the head can be optimised, but even so, its 2000 vertex (damn i applied the subsurb and saved, more work for later).
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Re: Some new models

Postby Skorpio » 03 Jan 2013, 21:56

It sucks when that happens. I always make a copy of the model before applying modifiers.

The tail seems to be a bit long now. :) I think the perspective made it look so short in the other render. I'd still make it fatter, though.
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Re: Some new models

Postby Danimal » 03 Jan 2013, 23:46

I just modified the face and started to work on the hair, didnt touch the tail yet. Whats you opinion on the mesh hair?
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Re: Some new models

Postby Julius » 04 Jan 2013, 15:57

Drop the hair... doubling the poly-count for it is crazy talk.

I am quite sure a good looking hair could be done with less polys... but a snake skin bald version would probably look good as well.
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Re: Some new models

Postby Danimal » 04 Jan 2013, 18:58

yeah... ill just do a simple mesh to place as hair, not as good looking but usefull
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Re: Some new models

Postby Danimal » 15 Jan 2013, 14:33

A few of this catched my eye, do you think they could fit in here as creatures (they are quite cool):

All of them come from this thread made by Surt at OGA:
http://opengameart.org/forumtopic/cc0-scraps
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1) Cool but creepy
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2) Third one rocks hard (blades dude), and fourth is cool (they are devils)
eyegore.png
3) The last one is a good monster-thing for the underground creatures faction
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Re: Some new models

Postby Skorpio » 15 Jan 2013, 17:47

I think they would fit nicely, I especially like the funnier monsters in the last image, but maybe we should start to focus more on the rooms and traps not creatures.
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Re: Some new models

Postby Danimal » 15 Jan 2013, 22:49

those should be simple to do, any list around?
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Re: Some new models

Postby Skorpio » 16 Jan 2013, 19:13

You can find some lists of traps and rooms on the wiki, but I don't think they are complete. Doors and special beds for some creatures are also needed.
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Re: Some new models

Postby Danimal » 17 Jan 2013, 16:28

I made a few bed concepts before, i remind you did a cannon trap, maybe OGA has good doors, but having a few concepts of them would help, what measures shuold they be? (they have to fit into a wall cell after all)
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Re: Some new models

Postby Skorpio » 18 Jan 2013, 17:31

Yeah, we really need some concepts. Btw, should the rooms have their own unique walls and floor tiles? I've already got a very simple test door, but it fits only to the claimed walls and I'm not sure how it could be opened. :) I think Clint Bellanger has made a pretty cool door for FLARE, but I can't find it on OGA.
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Re: Some new models

Postby paul424 » 18 Jan 2013, 17:45

Yeah , I think we would like, because the orginal DK promoted having >>walled<< rooms as oposed to closed ones -- by allowing mounting additional equipment to be mounted on the walls afaik - the torture wheel could be mounted both on wall and the floor. So to summarize in games such as ours closed rooms are encouraged by : additional functionality , easier defense , the cons is that you have to plan the future dungeon expansion in advance, if this is a big pain than you can put all functional rooms into one big empty hall , which everyone can approach ...
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Re: Some new models

Postby Danimal » 19 Jan 2013, 15:16

Both approaches should be possible, i always liked to make lots of rooms and corridors instead of just a big room, even more, it should be encouraged since traps get all their efficacy from being placed on narrow corridors (cannons are the exception, they excel at defending big and open spaces). Just remember having a corridor full of gas traps and in the end a closed door, that when destroyed activates a giant rolling boulder, thats what make DK great (mashed heroes for lunch).

But i refered this mostly because this kind of props can be easily done (3d characters models are too time consuming), the frontpage could use the news also (its about time to update it again).

Traps from wiki are:
Poison dart launcher
Spike pit
Covered pit
Cut wire
Boulder
Overall, i think most of them are quite lackluster, the snake and covered pits could be changed to spikes and lava/acid geiser traps, and cut wire to a wall circular saw (they would be easier to implement as well). Now i propose a few more:
Wall Press(the walls get together and squish whatever is in the middle)
Net Trap (trows a net and inmovilize the creature for a time, especially good against fast fliers)
Pusher (wind or a giant stone fist comes from the wall and pushes the creatures in one direction, good for chains of traps)
Ligth barricade (needs to be destroyed to pass over)
Heavy barricade (stronger than the last, and maybe having some magic that attack closer creatures or returns a bit of damage or autorepairs with time)

With triggers:
Floor trigger
Trip wire
Temperature trigger
Door trigger
I dont agree with having triggers, for this reasons, one its too complex, the average gamer will cringe at it (while the hardcore will like it, but they have already got Darwf fortress) we want to appeal to the average gamer, period; two, triggers are fit for slower paced games, in evil genius you had the same base for a long time before moving to the next, but if we are making huge levels which encourage building, traps and guerrilla warfare over creatures fights and compulsive terrain grabbing, then ok, use them. Just remember in DK traps were effective without outside triggers.

Doors:
1 Wooden door
2 Reinforced door
3 Stone door
4 Magic door
5 Hidden door
6 Vault door

Wooden and stone doors have models, but sincerely they suck. Give me the blender units they need to be and ill make new ones, also, which way should they open? up, down,sides?

PS: After reading the wiki, i learnt that all the above needs too much micromanagement (upgradable or enchantable doors, one use triggers), just simplify all of it, and make it that after being fired the traps needs a worker imp(kobol here?) to mount then again, and doors stay the way they are built. No more hassle required.
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Re: Some new models

Postby Skorpio » 20 Jan 2013, 19:19

You could put some claimed walls on a 2.5*2.5 BU grid and then model the door between the walls. You can see the FLARE door here, but it's not on OGA yet it seems.

I think you're right about the micromanagement. We shouldn't make the game too complicated and rather aim for a more fast-paced action game, but I also don't want to turn OD into a casual game. The question is, how can we make the game complex and keep the long time interest up, but avoid too much micro? One idea would be special keeper skill sets (I suggested keeper archetypes a long time ago) and customizable creatures.
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Re: Some new models

Postby Danimal » 21 Jan 2013, 00:54

"Dungeons" has skills sets, i can picture it easily, but customizable creatures? what would that mean? you only get the creatures you want trougth the portal? that would kill the necessity to make do with wathever u get at first, is that it?
Also, whats your opinion on new traps?
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Re: Some new models

Postby paul424 » 21 Jan 2013, 09:44

I have ideas how to make ruels system very customizable , for now don't worry about the gameplay just keep pushing the game models, which is great job :) .
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Re: Some new models

Postby Skorpio » 21 Jan 2013, 11:32

I meant different careers for the creatures and the possibility to equip them. For example you could train your basic orcs to become archers, pikemen or just workers, or a wizard could become an elementalist or a necromancer. Then you could assist your necromancers with special necro keeper skills, or if you're a crossover water magic-necro keeper, you could use surfing skeletons. :D That was my original plan as an alternative for factions.
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