New look

Re: New look

Postby svenskmand » 01 Jul 2011, 23:41

Could you explain what you need 30 different combinations for to make a transition between two terrain types? As I showed there are only 12 different tile types if you want to have a transitions between two terrain types. And why would you need 3 to 4 alpha maps for a terrain type and not just 1?
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Re: New look

Postby Skorpio » 02 Jul 2011, 20:44

Heh, I thought that was your suggestion, combining several alpha maps on different floater tiles to create all transitions. So you just want to overlay several transparent transition tiles? We could try that out, but I'm afraid we could get z-fighting and lighting problems.

I think I've sorted out the issue with the wall tiles. We just need a small connector tile at concave corners (the thing at the right edge of the screenshot).
New_tiles9.png
And I've made a new spiral stair (wip).
New_tiles8.png
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Re: New look

Postby Danimal » 02 Jul 2011, 23:46

Skorpio, are those walls from OGA(and stone tiles)? if so, do they come with normal maps?
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Re: New look

Postby svenskmand » 03 Jul 2011, 16:51

Looks real good Skorpio :D

Regarding the terrain transitions then my idea is that you put a simple texture layer just a small bit above the ground to show the terrain. Then you can have many of these terrains in the same tile at different heights, each with a alpha map. The terrain on top then has precedence over the lower ones. See the attached picture.
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Re: New look

Postby Skorpio » 03 Jul 2011, 20:53

Danimal {l Wrote}:Skorpio, are those walls from OGA(and stone tiles)? if so, do they come with normal maps?
Everything in these images is self-made, except the barrels which were made by OGA user yughues. All tiles and walls already have normal and spec maps. The textures are based on photos from www.burningwell.org .

I have a new problem now: the claimed walls don't fit to the dirt and stone walls, you can see little gaps. So I have to make 4 additonal connectors. Damned 3D tiles! ;)


svenskmand {l Wrote}:Regarding the terrain transitions then my idea is that you put a simple texture layer just a small bit above the ground to show the terrain. ...

We should try that out to see if it causes problems or not, but I think it could work.
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Re: New look

Postby Danimal » 04 Jul 2011, 14:33

any chance you will upload them to oOGA? i would like to use them on my pet project
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Re: New look

Postby Skorpio » 04 Jul 2011, 20:48

Sure, I'll upload them to OGA when they're done.
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Re: New look

Postby Skorpio » 09 Jul 2011, 09:48

svenskmand {l Wrote}:Skorpio is it just the dirt to stone transitions that takes you 46 tiles? Why is 12 not enough? A top down scrennshot would probably clarify this, when you make it.


I wasn't talking about transitons, I had to create 46 (or actually 48 with the simple floor and roof tiles) different pieces for both dirt and claimed walls, because I needed a lot of connection tiles, and if we want to add partly dug out pieces, like in the current version, then the amount of walls will be even higher. The alternative would have been a set of 16 wall pieces with straight edges, what looks unnatural. On these renders you can see that with only one texture the repetitiveness is too obvious, and the normal maps lose their effectiveness when zoomed out a bit. This time I used only white lights, so you can see the actual color of the textures. I guess coding all wall combinations could be difficult, but that's not my job. :) How should the pieces be named?
Claimed_tileset.png
Dirt_tileset.png
Dirt_tileset2.png
Claimed_tileset2.png
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Re: New look

Postby svenskmand » 09 Jul 2011, 13:40

It looks really good Skorpio :) Only I think now that you have made such a nice top on the walls then why not do that for the dirt tiles also?
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Re: New look

Postby Skorpio » 10 Jul 2011, 11:04

Hmm, I was actually going for this cross section look, the claimed walls just looked too boring so I added these extrusions. Modifying the tops of the dirt pieces would be somewhat painful now and blow up the vertex count even more.

I've just tested the claimed walls in OD. They are 3 times smaller than they should be, so the new tiles are 3*3 blender units big. The sole purpose of the connector tiles in the last screenshots is to fill these little gaps that you can see here.
screenshot_3.png
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Re: New look

Postby oln » 10 Jul 2011, 11:20

Skorpio {l Wrote}:Hmm, I was actually going for this cross section look, the claimed walls just looked too boring so I added these extrusions. Modifying the tops of the dirt pieces would be somewhat painful now and blow up the vertex count even more.

I've just tested the claimed walls in OD. They are 3 times smaller than they should be, so the new tiles are 3*3 blender units big. The sole purpose of the connector tiles in the last screenshots is to fill these little gaps that you can see here.
screenshot_3.png

Does this mean you will scale them up, or should the scaling in OD be adjusted?
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Re: New look

Postby svenskmand » 10 Jul 2011, 12:22

It looks pretty good, the wall should probably be a tat bigger, how about double the size how does that look?

Do you have a shot with the dirt tiles also? I would love to see them in action also.

I see you put in 16 of the same middle tiles for the dirt, did you do that because they are wang tiles?
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Re: New look

Postby charlie » 10 Jul 2011, 21:42

*dreams of fully 3D maps*

Looking great guys!
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Re: New look

Postby Skorpio » 11 Jul 2011, 23:59

I had to scale the tiles down to test them in-game, because the old tiles are 1*1 Blender units wide and the new pieces would have overlapped, since their size is 3*3 BU. So the code needs to be changed. By the way, Andrew forgot to apply the scale of the old tiles in Blender, that means they were 10 times too small and he probably scaled them up in-game.

Here are some screenshots of the dirt tiles. We have to replace some walls randomly with the variants that I made to break up the repetitiveness. I think I have to create even more tiles for the corners and double sided pieces.
2screenshot_2.png
4screenshot_4.png
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Re: New look

Postby svenskmand » 12 Jul 2011, 00:18

Skorpio you rock :D, I cannot wait to see this in game where the random tile selection is implemented :)
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Re: New look

Postby TheAncientGoat » 12 Jul 2011, 13:39

Wow, looks really good skorpio!
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Re: New look

Postby Julius » 12 Jul 2011, 17:18

Skorpio {l Wrote}:I had to scale the tiles down to test them in-game, because the old tiles are 1*1 Blender units wide and the new pieces would have overlapped, since their size is 3*3 BU. So the code needs to be changed.


Hmm mybe I understand you wrong, but doesn't that mean that the dungeons would be much less detailed... e.g. if you put one of your tiles in the space that was occupied by 9 (3x3) tiles before?
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Re: New look

Postby Skorpio » 13 Jul 2011, 14:16

At the moment the tiles are so small that the creatures overlap with the walls way too often. They'll have a lot more space on 3*3 tiles, and I think these bigger tiles are actually closer to Dungeon Keeper's tile sizes than the old ones. DK's tiles seem to be between 2 and 3 units wide compared with OD.
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Re: New look

Postby charlie » 13 Jul 2011, 16:22

I always had in mind, when it came to game design, that most games use grids that are not finegrained enough. Why not have a standard unit occupy 3x3 on the grid, and have bigger units go 5x5 and smaller units 2x2? It would make a lot more sense if you could fit more imps in a room than knights, and more knights than dragons.
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Re: New look

Postby oln » 13 Jul 2011, 20:32

I agree with charlie here, we shoudn't make the tiles too large. There should be other ways to prevent creatures from overlapping with walls.
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Re: New look

Postby Skorpio » 15 Jul 2011, 16:05

I designed the new tiles to fit on a 3*3 grid, but the creatures could still use a 1*1 grid for their movement, otherwise it would be difficult for them to reach an enemy in a fight. 3*3 tiles might be a bit big, but I think 2*2 looks a bit too tight. I've rendered a 3*3 and 2*2 version of the dirt tiles for you, so you can see the difference (the 2*2 walls are too low and would need to be scaled along the z-axis). The room has a size of 3*3 tiles.

3*3:
New_tiles10.png

2*2:
New_tiles11.png
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Re: New look

Postby svenskmand » 15 Jul 2011, 16:42

How does 2.5 look? I think 2 might be too small and 3 a bit too big.
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Re: New look

Postby Julius » 15 Jul 2011, 16:48

2x2 would be fine if the walls were a bit higher. But maybe we can think of something else for the top of the walls anyways? I always though this cut away look could be improved.
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Re: New look

Postby Skorpio » 16 Jul 2011, 15:32

Here's a render with 2.5*2.5 tiles. I think that size looks pretty good.
New_tiles12.png
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Re: New look

Postby svenskmand » 16 Jul 2011, 23:02

Yeah 2.5 looks quite nice :)
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