GUI

[svenskmand]

I have tweaked the pipes a little more to get some more detail in them. Stefan could you please let the GUI elements be in the same file, so that when I export the elements to png, like the attached one, then I can directly copy it into the game and use it without having to fittle with GIMP?

Now the elements reside in 2 files: OpenDungeons.png and ODBackgrounds.png :S

[StefanP.MUC]

I currently don't have so much time. And adjusting all the numbers for the imageset is the most time consuming step in the whole GUI designing. Well, there is a imageset editor directly from the CEGUI guys (can be downloaded from their site), but I had some problems with it (however, one of it should be solved with the update of the ResourceManager now that the CEGUI files don't have hardcoded paths anymore).
If you want you can give it a try, then you don't need me anymore to adjust all the numbers by hand.

[svenskmand]

Well I could do that if all the old stuff in OpenDungeons.png was not used in the game, but some of it is used in the goal screen :S As it is now I would have to copy all this into the exported png from Inkscape every time I want to change it :S

But when we get all that old stuff out I think we should just have one png with all the gui stuff in.

[StefanP.MUC]

Notice: the guys over at CEGUI released a new editor for the imagesets:
http://cegui.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5640

It seems to work much better than the old one and should be more user friendly. And if I understood it correctly, it is meant to be extended to a full layout editor in the near future.

Hopefully it will produce less messed up output than the very old editors that are already available, this would make creating GUIs for OD much easier (currently with all these manual one by one pixel and number changing in text/graphics editors, I lost all my desire to work on the GUI ).

[svenskmand]

What? You will not work on the GUI anymore why not? Or you won't because of the manual editing of the numbers, and now it is easier so you still want to work on it?

Any plans with the mini-map by the way? I have been thinking about about the legend. And have though about how the big map should look, the one you get when you right-click on the map in DK 2 and when you click the map button in DK.

[StefanP.MUC]

Currently I don't have much time anyway. I only have time to do smaller things, like easy bug fixes and maintanance or helping with moving code blocks around after oln decided on the final structure. I will work again on OD later, of course. It's the typical "summer hole", I assume, that stops a lot of progress in software projects over the summer time.

About the GUI: Yes, the manual editing was the main reason why I needed a break. If their new editor works good on the layouts, then I'll do some more work on the GUI, too.

What I was thinking about, was a "list of easy tasks", like the LibreOffice devs published for their project. Currently we only have a list like "we need more graphics, we need more programmers", that isn't very motivating.
If we could assemble a list like:
- texture for the troll needs recolloring (brighter gray, some more bumps)
- in Player.cpp add a function that does this and that
- use CE Editor to design an options menu
it should be more easyto gain contributors with very explicit and concrete tasks.

And espacially the GUI layouts are easy tasks (very annoying after some time, but easy ).

[svenskmand]

The bug tracker is perfect for that kind of things. I do not know if you can label tasks as easy, but I guess it has some sort of labeling you can sort the bugs according to.

[svenskmand]

When the website is eventually made we could have a small list of the top 10 most wanted and easy bug-fixes shown on the page, it could be a good motivator

[StefanP.MUC]

Notice:
The CEGUI guys have an updated release of their new unified CEGUI editor tool with some interesting new features (seems to finally include well-working layout editing! ):
http://cegui.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5750

[xahodo]

Hello,

I haven't read the whole thread. But as far as I have read it the discussion seems to focus on a '90s like GUI.

Why not make a completely new GUI, one which consumes only as much space as strictly needed.

What I am talking about is a GUI which shows contextual information near the mouse pointer and only shows elements which are actually needed at the moment.

For example: hover over a creature and some information about it pops up, not in some popup window, but rather as a text overlay. Right click on the creature and you get a menu for possible actions with the creature. The same goes for rooms. Hover your mouse over it, and contextual information pops up, again as a simple text overlay, NOT as a window. Right click on the room and you get a nice menu to alter its behavior. Right click on an empty tile, and you get a nice menu on what to do with it (place traps, build room).

Now, dragging would go as usual, drag and hold and the game figures out what you want to do (either by contextual menu, what you previously selected (room construction for example) or by a modifier key you pressed.

A window to view the map could be optional, but it would be nice to be able to zoom out until you get an overview of the entire known area (I was thinking along the lines of supreme commander).

Events could be shown by an arrow at the edge of the screen, as could objectives, off-screen creatures (perhaps even known enemy creatures). Hovering over these arrows could (again) provide additional information. Clicking centers the view-port on what the arrow points to.

Information which needs to be available constantly (like the total number of creatures employed and amount of gold available) could be put in a corner (might I suggest the top right). Hovering over these numbers could provide additional information and clicking on them could produce a menu which you can manipulate as needed.

This doesn't bombard the player with an excessive amount of (potentially) unneeded information and frees up valuable screen real estate by not having unneeded windows on screen.

Just my €0.02.

[svenskmand]

It sounds interesting, maybe you could provide a few mock-ups of your key ideas, to make it more clear what you mean?

[xahodo]

Well, my artistic skills would result in something incomprehensible. Are you really that sure you want a mockup from me?

[StefanP.MUC]

Every input is fine.

[svenskmand]

Exactly, if you give us a mock-up I can help you nail the details

[xahodo]

Ok, but don't say I didn't warn you. :s I'm better at hand drawing then with a computer, so here's what I have in my head...

"censored" is just a joke... don't take it seriously.

The mouse pointer above the creature's head basically shows what should happen when you hover over something of interest. The mouse pointer over the tile shows what should happen when you right click on a tile. What is shown there is that some buttons appear.

The top most are some rooms and the bottom shows traps. If the list becomes too long arrows (triangles) should appear left and right which should be used to scroll through the list.

At the top are two arrows, each pointing to an area of interest on the map. One with an exclamation mark, another with a question mark. The exclamation mark is that something of interest has happened, the question mark indicates something unknown of interest.

At the bottom is a text with an exclamation mark. It might also be interesting to show a "green" arrow (like the rest of the events) with the text attached to it (if hovered over it).

At the top right the available resources including creatures are shown. The list of creatures expands and contracts as needed.

Clear enough? Need more drawings?

[StefanP.MUC]

Nice. I generally like context-sensitive input. But I see a small problem here ( but maybe I only misunderstood something): Imagine a dungeon with lots of creatures walking around. Then you want to quickly build something. To reach the build menu you first have to find an empty space between your creatures to right click on a tile. And everytime you have to find a new empty space because the creatures walk around. So the way of reaching the build buttons should be easier (more "constant", the player should be able to reach it always with the same actions in the same time).

Another possible problem I can imagine: You first need to click on a tile then click a button and then drag-and-drop the room. This is one click more. (2->3, so 50% more clicks to build something)

The ! and ? indicators are nice. They would be a nice addition to blinking indcators on the minimap.

But all in all I like your idea very much.

[xahodo]

Well, the 3 clicks issue is compensated by the fact that your menu appears near the mouse. On top of that, a modifier key could be used in order to force the game to ignore the obvious (select the tile, instead of the creature on it, for example).

Such a modifier key could be used in multiple places, to give access to further functionality or to provide hints to the game in order to prevent frustration.

[oln]

So, since the game already has an editor, maybe someone would want to have an attempt at making an editor GUI mockup?