OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Bertram » 23 Apr 2015, 11:33

Hey there,

We've been discussing the general goals of the project in this topic:
viewtopic.php?p=62677#p62677
(I linked where we begun discussing the 2015 goals).

Now, for next OD aka 0.6.0, let's discuss what you guys want to see in. :)

I'll start:
What I'd like to handle
- Finish the settings window + user settings handling (I'll take care of it).
- Add true user map support + corresponding gui.
- Finish the Research tree to make it modifiable, and why not rename it to skill tree.
- Add creature sounds (walk/flee/fights) + voice over.
(Once I'm with this, we'll see for the rest.)

Proposed common goals for 0.6.0:
- Have a look at how we could add particle effects. (ParticleFX? ParticleUniverse?)
- Add the forge + creature equipment support.
- Add the main missing while static (aka hardcoded) game play features - End of Tier I: Doors, Bridges, infinite gold tiles, gift boxes.

Graphics:
- Add the new Keeper worker.
- Add new better per faction portal and temples.
- See whether there are beds still in need to be added.

Nice to have but if time permits (smaller scopes, releases more often):
- Have a look at whether we can start adding support to make events in game through scripting.
- Refactor goals so we can have more relevant ones. (We should then define what is a relevant goal.)
- Turn the goal window into the quest window + why not display the game summary/stats, as seen in many games and use it when losing/winning.

Your turn to speak. ;)

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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Akien » 23 Apr 2015, 12:43

I agree that we should try to release as often as possible, and therefore we should make our scope relatively small (still open to "I want to code that even though it's not planned for now" surprises, like half of 0.5.0 was made of :p ).

Before I start with my ideas for 0.6.0, here are some thoughts about our versioning policy. I suggest that we continue as we've started, following this logic:
- Understand our version number as "finished.major.minor", i.e. 0.6.0 is not the finished game (that will be 1.0.0), the "major" is 6 and the minor version is 0.
- For versions with major changes, and particularly changes that make saves and/or levels of previous versions incompatible, we increase the major version.
- If we do releases with small updates like one or two non-disruptive features, some new levels, improved balance, etc., we increase the minor version, e.g. 0.5.1. I don't think we plan to do such releases currently since there is still much to do in terms of core features that might affect levels/saves/config, etc., but I just want us to be on the same wavelength :)
- If we reach 0.9.0 quickly but don't consider that we're near to 1.0.0, we can continue with the same logic and release 0.10.0, 0.11.0, etc. until we are happy and want to release 1.0.0.
WDYT?

Another related question: how often do we want to release? I think we should stay to our current "release when it's ready", but we should also have an initial idea when planning the milestones. We've released 0.4.9 in December, and then 0.5.0 in April, i.e. 0.5.0 was developed during 4 months. And it was a relatively big milestone taking into account all the bonus content that hwoarangmy made.
I would propose that we initially aim for a 3 months development time, and if we want to spend more (or less) time than that, we'll do :)


Now to the 0.6.0 scope, I agree with Bertram on most points listed above.
Some additions:

Editor: Make it fully functional
- GUI to create a new level from scratch, define the size, description, basic seat parameters (seat color, allowed teams/factions, starting position)
- For 0.6.0, we can probably leave out the other features needed for a complete editor: possibility to define custom creature classes, starting gold and objectives for each seat, allowed researches, etc. I would make that more part of 0.7.0.
- Temporarily drop the tile fullness categories from the editor since we are hardly using them gameplay-wise, i.e. propose only fullness 0% or 100%. This will prevent putting 25%, 50% or 75% full tiles by mistake when trying to switch between ground and wall tiles.
=> Focus: build a player community and have them create user content (that could be added in the main tree, and then we could stop working)... Mouahahaha!

Levels:
- Create some good levels, with skirmish levels designed to be played alone (and therefore not necessarily fair to all seats, which can help create more of a "scenario"), and multiplayer levels meant to be fair for all seats.
- Make multiplayer levels available from the skirmish menu if they are tagged as such by a level parameter (i.e. we should drop the skirmish version of some multiplayer-intended levels, and make it possible to start those multiplayer levels in singleplayer if they have an argument such as "AlsoSingleplayer").

Creatures:
- Improve the balance as we see fit
- Make a better usage of the implemented mood system
- +1 for making sure that we use all beds that we want to use, currently many creatures are using the same beds

Graphics:
- Fix this tileset once and for all: holes in the corners, water and lava tiles that don't match. Maybe make a nicer gold mesh/texture?

Engine:
- Make fights more epic: try to avoid overlapping creatures that make fights with 10 creatures and one tile fighting 10 creatures the adjacent tile.

Gameplay:
- Add some more spells (to be determined). This shouldn't be too hard code-wise, though until we have a working particle system, it might be difficult to do nice spell animations.

Some more ideas later as they come :)
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Danimal » 23 Apr 2015, 14:08

I take note of the graphics goals, finding free time is the worst enemy of them, anyways, i would like:

- Widen music score, this one is great: http://opengameart.org/content/north-wi ... sic-inside
but many others in here: http://opengameart.org/content/candidat ... n-dungeons

- Forge: needs disscusion, too bland? weapon upgrade is nice but it could also be used to promote creatures, once they pass a fixed level (20?) they could get put in there and become something else like "Adventurer Lv20 -> knigthLv10", also, the evil keeper will have many more beasties that wont benefit from forge as the good keeper will (who is full of humanoids). ideas for it? "Dark Temple" could be expanded to evil keepers by allowing to sacrify creatures to mix and match stronger ones, while heroes only get access to "Ligth Temple" where only prying for mana is allowed since they are good fellows (two different temple rooms in fact, and a excuse to use the dance animation)

- Mascot, new worker fills for funny/cute but we need something horned-reaper like to fill for brutal and cool, any monster around included ones from ancient beast that could fit the spot?

- Monster level progression, somehow they all get swamped at around level 10, they idle a lot more instead of training at that moment, or at least thats my impression

- Discusse current pathing system and graphic scale, if instead of only using the floor tile center as the only way, creatures could choose the actual closest path they could be made smaller, avoid the 10 creatures ovelapping issue and we can show off the updated graphics from closest distance, take DK as an example of what i mean.

- Support for creating biomes when starting a new map in editor, even if just a stump for now (it should predefine tileset, music scores and creatures)

- Campaign basic support, level linking and maybe a basic map to graphically choose level, support for displaying videos in between levels or after clicking map

More sure to come later.
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby hwoarangmy » 23 Apr 2015, 20:37

For my part, I was thinking of:
- Adding 1 attack and 1 defense spells (partly done before I left, missing more or less the logic).
- Using doors. That may not be easy because the pathfinding code relies much on checking if a path exists (there might be many calls so checking if the path really exists by computing it is not an option). I think I will go for computing floodfill per seat.
- Allowing to use OD as a standalone server mode (no local client)

Akien {l Wrote}:Before I start with my ideas for 0.6.0, here are some thoughts about our versioning policy. I suggest that we continue as we've started, following this logic:
- Understand our version number as "finished.major.minor", i.e. 0.6.0 is not the finished game (that will be 1.0.0), the "major" is 6 and the minor version is 0.
- For versions with major changes, and particularly changes that make saves and/or levels of previous versions incompatible, we increase the major version.
- If we do releases with small updates like one or two non-disruptive features, some new levels, improved balance, etc., we increase the minor version, e.g. 0.5.1. I don't think we plan to do such releases currently since there is still much to do in terms of core features that might affect levels/saves/config, etc., but I just want us to be on the same wavelength :)
- If we reach 0.9.0 quickly but don't consider that we're near to 1.0.0, we can continue with the same logic and release 0.10.0, 0.11.0, etc. until we are happy and want to release 1.0.0.
IIRC, that's more or less what we had already said. Good to remind.

Akien {l Wrote}:Another related question: how often do we want to release? I think we should stay to our current "release when it's ready", but we should also have an initial idea when planning the milestones. We've released 0.4.9 in December, and then 0.5.0 in April, i.e. 0.5.0 was developed during 4 months. And it was a relatively big milestone taking into account all the bonus content that hwoarangmy made.
I would propose that we initially aim for a 3 months development time, and if we want to spend more (or less) time than that, we'll do :)
Because OD is a spare free time project, IMHO, version objectives should be seen like "open issues for newcomers or for who don't wan't to do something else". I think we should rather choose a date (between 2 or 3 months) and release with what will be done by that time.
Actually, that's what we have done for 0.6.0 since some stuff originally planned for this release has been moved to the next (like sounds).

Akien {l Wrote}:- Temporarily drop the tile fullness categories from the editor since we are hardly using them gameplay-wise, i.e. propose only fullness 0% or 100%. This will prevent putting 25%, 50% or 75% full tiles by mistake when trying to switch between ground and wall tiles.
I agree. I made the mistake once to use 25% tile fullness instead of 100% and I had to change every tile manually in the level. Since there is no visual difference between full tiles, IMHO, we shouldn't bother about fullness states.


Akien {l Wrote}:Focus: build a player community and have them create user content (that could be added in the main tree, and then we could stop working)... Mouahahaha!
Is that your goal for 0.6.0 ? :p

Danimal {l Wrote}:- Mascot, new worker fills for funny/cute but we need something horned-reaper like to fill for brutal and cool
I agree. I will have a look at ancient beast and tell you if I find something.

Danimal {l Wrote}:- Monster level progression, somehow they all get swamped at around level 10, they idle a lot more instead of training at that moment, or at least thats my impression
That was hardcoded in the training room (and still is). Creatures with level >= 10 cannot train. I guess the idea was to need another room (or at least upgrade the training room if we allow room upgrades). In DK2, the training room could not be used after a certain level. You had to use an arena (that hurts the creatures fighting) for higher levels. IMHO, that's a good idea.
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Danimal » 23 Apr 2015, 22:35

That was hardcoded in the training room (and still is). Creatures with level >= 10 cannot train. I guess the idea was to need another room (or at least upgrade the training room if we allow room upgrades). In DK2, the training room could not be used after a certain level. You had to use an arena (that hurts the creatures fighting) for higher levels. IMHO, that's a good idea.

Good thinking, i agree, but maybe it should be raised to lv15 instead?

- Temporarily drop the tile fullness categories from the editor since we are hardly using them gameplay-wise, i.e. propose only fullness 0% or 100%. This will prevent putting 25%, 50% or 75% full tiles by mistake when trying to switch between ground and wall tiles.

I agree. I made the mistake once to use 25% tile fullness instead of 100% and I had to change every tile manually in the level. Since there is no visual difference between full tiles, IMHO, we shouldn't bother about fullness states.

I actually like the idea of land hardness and coming with 2 new textures should not be that difficult, but i would change it to 0%, 100%, 200% and 300% hardness
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby eugeneloza » 24 Apr 2015, 08:23

I think a health bar would be a perfect addition. Plus, maybe, a healing spell.
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Danimal » 24 Apr 2015, 11:24

i expected more from you, you dissapoint me :( ; jokes aside, the skull flags serve as health bars and heal spells should be possible to integrate by what bertram and Hwo say. Maybe add more partial overlays to the skull flag so life is indicated more precisely than just 4 states?

- New request: change image in skull flag when one creature need is at it lowest, like need to sleep(Zzzz), eat or is knocked out
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby charlie » 24 Apr 2015, 12:43

It's been a little while since I played, but one of the things I didn't like so much was how much creatures moved through each other.

Somehow it looks worse when it is 3D models than it does with 2D sprites. I guess the unclean overlap makes for messy viewing.
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby eugeneloza » 24 Apr 2015, 12:49

i expected more from you, you dissapoint me

I haven't yet played 0.5.0 (just downloaded it and checked if it's working) so I'm not sure what has been already done :cool:
I'm thinking of these weekends :twisted:
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Vandar » 24 Apr 2015, 14:42

Danimal {l Wrote}:- New request: change image in skull flag ... is knocked out


Comic style singing birds? Swirling stars? Or just a boxing glove? I'm curious what you'll come up with :)
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Bertram » 24 Apr 2015, 22:33

Hey there, :)

Akien {l Wrote}:Release version policy

I agree about the release policy. that's what we were doing anyway, but it can't hurt being said officially.

Hwoarangmy {l Wrote}:we should rather choose a date (between 2 or 3 months) and release with what will be done by that time.

+1 We're a spare-time project. Adding fixed deadline is IMHO adding a useless pressure.

Akien {l Wrote}:- GUI to create a new level from scratch, define the size, description, basic seat parameters (seat color, allowed teams/factions, starting position)

I'm fine with it. I'll move the issue #22 to 0.6.0 then. If anybody is against. Just tell why. :)
Danimal {l Wrote}:- Support for creating biomes when starting a new map in editor, even if just a stump for now (it should predefine tileset, music scores and creatures)

In other terms, the tileset used should be part of the new level options. :) I've added that in the issue description.

Hwoarangmy {l Wrote}:
Akien {l Wrote}:- Temporarily drop the tile fullness categories from the editor since we are hardly using them gameplay-wise, i.e. propose only fullness 0% or 100%. This will prevent putting 25%, 50% or 75% full tiles by mistake when trying to switch between ground and wall tiles.

I agree. I made the mistake once to use 25% tile fullness instead of 100% and I had to change every tile manually in the level. Since there is no visual difference between full tiles, IMHO, we shouldn't bother about fullness states.

Danimal {l Wrote}:I actually like the idea of land hardness and coming with 2 new textures should not be that difficult, but i would change it to 0%, 100%, 200% and 300% hardness

This is an area that is IMHO not very well defined yet on what final feature and visual behaviour we want to have and support.

IMHO, the hardness/fullness of a tile is determining how much time/gold you will use/earn when digging it. Atm, visually, we only support 100% and 0% but as for the value, we support more. Akien is proposing to follow the currently available visuals by only permitting 0 or 100%.
Here, I do think that is enough, both visually and in term of code, and that the time needed to dig/claim as wall should be changed by the creature level and the tile type.
Are you ok with it Danimal or is there something different you'd like to see happen here and why?

charlie {l Wrote}:It's been a little while since I played, but one of the things I didn't like so much was how much creatures moved through each other.
Somehow it looks worse when it is 3D models than it does with 2D sprites. I guess the unclean overlap makes for messy viewing.

Yeah, you're right. We talked about that a few times and we were thinking about adding a random offset when multiple creatures are on the same tile.
I've opened an issue about it: https://github.com/OpenDungeons/OpenDungeons/issues/697

Danimal {l Wrote}:
hwoarangmy {l Wrote}:That was hardcoded in the training room (and still is). Creatures with level >= 10 cannot train. I guess the idea was to need another room (or at least upgrade the training room if we allow room upgrades). In DK2, the training room could not be used after a certain level. You had to use an arena (that hurts the creatures fighting) for higher levels. IMHO, that's a good idea.


Good thinking, i agree, but maybe it should be raised to lv15 instead?

There are several things here. I think we're all ok to see another room alla arena. As for the level, I'm not sure. What max level should a creature get in the arena for instance?
Is lvl10 in training room, lvl20 in arena acceptable or do you see more something like lvl15 in training room, lvl 25 in arena maybe?
In any case, the lvl should be dehardcoded, I've opened an issue about it: https://github.com/OpenDungeons/OpenDungeons/issues/698
Arena: https://github.com/OpenDungeons/OpenDungeons/issues/699 (Set to Later)

Danimal {l Wrote}:- Forge: needs disscusion, too bland? weapon upgrade is nice but it could also be used to promote creatures, once they pass a fixed level (20?) they could get put in there and become something else like "Adventurer Lv20 -> knigthLv10", also, the evil keeper will have many more beasties that wont benefit from forge as the good keeper will (who is full of humanoids). ideas for it?

- Promote certain units should be a unlockable skill specific to each faction.
- Balancing the forge should be discussed only once we have it in game, IMHO.

Danimal {l Wrote}:"Dark Temple" could be expanded to evil keepers by allowing to sacrify creatures to mix and match stronger ones, while heroes only get access to "Ligth Temple" where only prying for mana is allowed since they are good fellows (two different temple rooms in fact, and a excuse to use the dance animation)

An advanced room. :> I like that. We still need to add something to the light temple, though, or I can already hear players complain. ;)

Danimal {l Wrote}:- Widen music score, this one is great: http://opengameart.org/content/north-wi ... sic-inside
but many others in here: http://opengameart.org/content/candidat ... n-dungeons

Easy enough as it is configurable. Using two or three different music shouldn't hurt. Since I likely look into sounds, I'll likely handle this one.

Campaign basic support, level linking and maybe a basic map to graphically choose level, support for displaying videos in between levels or after clicking map

Some parts of this one are clearly too early, IMHO. I wouldn't create a clickable worldmap to select a level a priority for now. In fact, I must say I'm rather against starting the campaign until we have 80% of the features done or we will have to perpetually redo it afterwards. That said, as usual, if anyone wants to throw himself into it and start implementing, I won't complain either.
But I'd add prerequisites:
- Scripting support and event handling.
- scripted goals support.
- Tier II rooms for both factions.

Btw, I self defined Tier I. What is Tier I, Tier II and Tier III creatures and rooms in your own opinion?
In the meanwhile, I'd rather have us create new skirmish and lan levels used to test and/or show up the new features, just like we're doing now.

Danimal {l Wrote}:the skull flags serve as health bars and heal spells should be possible to integrate by what bertram and Hwo say. Maybe add more partial overlays to the skull flag so life is indicated more precisely than just 4 states?
- New request: change image in skull flag when one creature need is at it lowest, like need to sleep(Zzzz), eat or is knocked out

Improving the Skull Flags is a good idea. I would make the skull flag health states be 8 not 4 indeed, as the 2 and 3 make it a bit unpredictable when in a middle of a struggle.
I would also like to make it so the skull flag is depending on the faction.
But as for the other states, if it's possible, I would rather use other smaller icons on top of the skull flags, like a Zzzz, a very angry, ...
WDYT?

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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Danimal » 24 Apr 2015, 23:09

Here, I do think that is enough, both visually and in term of code, and that the time needed to dig/claim as wall should be changed by the creature level and the tile type.
Are you ok with it Danimal or is there something different you'd like to see happen here and why?

I imagined harder dirt that would be represented by dirt mixed with stones and cracked rock for the hardest type. But if its not going to add anything im fine with dropping it.

An advanced room. :> I like that. We still need to add something to the light temple, though, or I can already hear players complain. ;)

Maybe the ligth/dark temple should be instead the place to promote creatures? the creature gets annointed when put in there after a certain level and "evolves", still, hero temple has less functions than evil one.

Btw, I self defined Tier I. What is Tier I, Tier II and Tier III creatures and rooms in your own opinion?


I did make a list for creatures before, but basically tier 1 creeps and low level figthers (spider, goblins, adventurers, dwarf1...) tier 2 useful figthers (knigths, defender, orcs, lizarman...) tier 3 strong warriors (troll, scarab, runelord...) tier 4 unique units like bigknigth and pitdevil, as for rooms:
tier 1 the ones you get for free + training hall;
tier 2: common rooms like forge, prison, cript...;
tier 3: temples? we dont have enought to fill this list yet...

But as for the other states, if it's possible, I would rather use other smaller icons on top of the skull flags, like a Zzzz, a very angry, ...
WDYT?

its good as long as they show up
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Bertram » 24 Apr 2015, 23:28

I imagined harder dirt that would be represented by dirt mixed with stones and cracked rock for the hardest type. But if its not going to add anything im fine with dropping it.

Actually, it's compatible, but not as a different hardness value but as a different tile type. I do wonder what's the most flexible though. I would also like to see a grass tile be added, btw, so we can have interior/exterior maps.

Maybe the ligth/dark temple should be instead the place to promote creatures? the creature gets annointed when put in there after a certain level and "evolves", still, hero temple has less functions than evil one.

Good idea. :) temples could also permit to promote certain units, while the forge would permit to promote lower types?
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby hwoarangmy » 24 Apr 2015, 23:43

Bertram {l Wrote}:
Akien {l Wrote}:- GUI to create a new level from scratch, define the size, description, basic seat parameters (seat color, allowed teams/factions, starting position)

I'm fine with it. I'll move the issue #22 to 0.6.0 then. If anybody is against. Just tell why. :)
IMHO, we don't need a perfect consensus to add something to a milestone. As always, if anybody wants to do that, he can. And if nobody takes it before 0.6.0 release, it will be for the next one. I've always seen the release "goals" as a list of todos when we don't want to do something else (and also a place where to gather what have been done to not have to go through all PRs for the release notes).

Bertram {l Wrote}:This is an area that is IMHO not very well defined yet on what final feature and visual behaviour we want to have and support.

IMHO, the hardness/fullness of a tile is determining how much time/gold you will use/earn when digging it. Atm, visually, we only support 100% and 0% but as for the value, we support more. Akien is proposing to follow the currently available visuals by only permitting 0 or 100%.
Here, I do think that is enough, both visually and in term of code, and that the time needed to dig/claim as wall should be changed by the creature level and the tile type.
Are you ok with it Danimal or is there something different you'd like to see happen here and why?
Yep, I agree. @Danimal If you have something in mind, please tell us what so we can see how much work it would require for coding/artists. Because ATM, I don't see how to handle your request with the current tileset logic for example. Because tile materials are not hardcoded but defined in the tileset, allowing other states would mean to multiply the possible tile states and would make the tileset config file pretty messy. However, depending on what you really want, there might be easier things to do so please elaborate a bit what you have in mind.

Bertram {l Wrote}:
Danimal {l Wrote}:Good thinking, i agree, but maybe it should be raised to lv15 instead?

There are several things here. I think we're all ok to see another room alla arena. As for the level, I'm not sure. What max level should a creature get in the arena for instance?
Is lvl10 in training room, lvl20 in arena acceptable or do you see more something like lvl15 in training room, lvl 25 in arena maybe?
De-hardcoding should be enough as a first step. But I agree that until we have the arena, we can temporarily increase max level and lower it when it will be there. We could also add a research that would increase the maximum level creatures can reach in the training room.

Bertram {l Wrote}:- Promote certain units should be a unlockable skill specific to each faction.
- Balancing the forge should be discussed only once we have it in game, IMHO.
I would even say that the whole forge concept should be discussed. From what I had understood, it was to forge weapons. If we want to allow it to promote units, we should first decide which can be upgraded and how more precisely IMHO (starting by do we want to use the same room for both functions ?).

Bertram {l Wrote}:An advanced room. :> I like that. We still need to add something to the light temple, though, or I can already hear players complain. ;)
Well, Danimal said that worshipping creatures would give mana to the keeper. That's a good idea IMHO.

Bertram {l Wrote}:
Danimal {l Wrote}:Campaign basic support, level linking and maybe a basic map to graphically choose level, support for displaying videos in between levels or after clicking map

Some parts of this one are clearly too early, IMHO. I wouldn't create a clickable worldmap to select a level a priority for now. In fact, I must say I'm rather against starting the campaign until we have 80% of the features done or we will have to perpetually redo it afterwards. That said, as usual, if anyone wants to throw himself into it and start implementing, I won't complain either.
But I'd add prerequisites:
- Scripting support and event handling.
- scripted goals support.
- Tier II rooms for both factions.
I agree, it is too early for that IMHO. When we will have the levels (and videos and whatever funny things our artists can craft), we will have time to think about how to package everything in a campaign ^^

Bertram {l Wrote}:Btw, I self defined Tier I. What is Tier I, Tier II and Tier III creatures and rooms in your own opinion?
I know in your world, there are only 3 tiers but in the artistic world, there are 4. The last one being for the most powerfull creatures (BigKnights and PitDemons) :)

For full details:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5851&p=59643&hilit=tier#p59643

Danimal {l Wrote}:the skull flags serve as health bars and heal spells should be possible to integrate by what bertram and Hwo say. Maybe add more partial overlays to the skull flag so life is indicated more precisely than just 4 states?
- New request: change image in skull flag when one creature need is at it lowest, like need to sleep(Zzzz), eat or is knocked out
Well, we have already spoke about skull flags and I guess we should define what they will be used for. IIRC, we also said that we wanted to allow to customize the flag. If we also want to add some creature state, we should see what we want to display and decide what is most suited (if we want to display too many things having something similar to skull flag but different could be better)

Bertram {l Wrote}:Improving the Skull Flags is a good idea. I would make the skull flag health states be 8 not 4 indeed, as the 2 and 3 make it a bit unpredictable when in a middle of a struggle.
I would also like to make it so the skull flag is depending on the faction.
But as for the other states, if it's possible, I would rather use other smaller icons on top of the skull flags, like a Zzzz, a very angry, ...
Skull flags are currently defined in a material. The more states we have, the more png we will need for each flag. But I agree currently, it is hard to know when a creature will really get killed or not.
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Akien » 25 Apr 2015, 09:38

Bertram {l Wrote}:
Hwoarangmy {l Wrote}:we should rather choose a date (between 2 or 3 months) and release with what will be done by that time.

+1 We're a spare-time project. Adding fixed deadline is IMHO adding a useless pressure.

Of course. What I meant is not that we should have a fixed deadline, only that we should have a timescale in mind when planning the milestone, so that we don't plan stuff that would require 2 years of work when we would like to have frequent releases :)

Bertram {l Wrote}:
Danimal {l Wrote}:Campaign basic support, level linking and maybe a basic map to graphically choose level, support for displaying videos in between levels or after clicking map

Some parts of this one are clearly too early, IMHO. I wouldn't create a clickable worldmap to select a level a priority for now. In fact, I must say I'm rather against starting the campaign until we have 80% of the features done or we will have to perpetually redo it afterwards. That said, as usual, if anyone wants to throw himself into it and start implementing, I won't complain either.
But I'd add prerequisites:
- Scripting support and event handling.
- scripted goals support.

I agree that it's too early to start working on a campaign, since the gameplay is still evolving a lot as we implement it.
On the other hand, we can start working on a scenario that can be used later when we start implementing the campaign, but that's not a "code or art" requirement for the milestone, it's more a long-term goal that could be worked on in the forum or the wiki.

What would be very nice for 0.6.0 though, but it depends on whether we have started working on scripting support and event handling, would be to have an in-game tutorial. From the first echos that we got of our players on #opendungeons, it looks like the gameplay concepts are not easy to learn; my video tutorial helps, but an in-game tutorial would definitely be a plus. And this one could be reworked when the gameplay evolves IMO, that would not be a huge problem.
But again, this might be more of a 0.7.0 goal; let's keep it at the back of our heads and we'll see how 0.6.0 evolves :)
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Danimal » 25 Apr 2015, 12:05

im thinking on a texture difference for the other 2 dirt tiles, and a higher HP value based on hardness; its the same concept as 25%, 50%... but starting at 100% as the base dirt tile.

See below a kick and dirty example, but if its too much trouble it can be better to forget about it, i dont really think adding this new layer of complexity is a good idea.
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby hwoarangmy » 26 Apr 2015, 10:11

Danimal {l Wrote}:im thinking on a texture difference for the other 2 dirt tiles, and a higher HP value based on hardness; its the same concept as 25%, 50%... but starting at 100% as the base dirt tile.
Honestly, I'm not sure it would add so much to the gameplay. But in any case, tilesets are defined based on each tile visual. That mean that for each new visual (3 for dirt, 3 for gold at last), we would have to define a new entry in the tilset and we would also need to define links between all of them (and that for each tileset). Also note that adding a new tile visual will break saved games.
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Danimal » 26 Apr 2015, 12:33

Forget about it then, if we add more tiles for a new biome hardness would make it a pain to handle and keep track of.
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby hwoarangmy » 27 Apr 2015, 22:50

Danimal {l Wrote}:- Mascot, new worker fills for funny/cute but we need something horned-reaper like to fill for brutal and cool, any monster around included ones from ancient beast that could fit the spot?
I've been thinking about a concept. I don't know if it could be the mascot but it would be a powerfull creature. The idea would be to have a creature with a lot of chains, hidden, pretty slow that could look like (with more chains and bindings):
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2012 ... an_Joh.png

Then, once it levels, it could be upgraded in some room (like the forge as Danimal was talking about), break its chains and become a really powerfull and aggressive creature (that would attack and kill nearly all creatures around, even if allied - much stronger than what horny was)

And if we want a story for this creature, it would be creatures so powerfull that the gods started to fear and they went together to destroy them. But they choose to not kill them fearing that the creatures might ally themselves if feeling too persecuted and they would become a greater threat. That's why they tracked them down and binded their powers with powerfull spells and chains.
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Danimal » 28 Apr 2015, 11:03

Not a bad idea, and to make it funnier he could be into S&M(adaptation from many centuries of it) and like "50 shade of shit"
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby hwoarangmy » 28 Apr 2015, 11:21

Yep, that's the spirit. I was thinking of something like this one of the vilains in Batman asylum
http://penuser.deviantart.com/art/Titan ... -136736769
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Bertram » 29 Apr 2015, 17:14

Hey there, :)

Danimal {l Wrote}:Forget about it then, if we add more tiles for a new biome hardness would make it a pain to handle and keep track of.

Don't worry, we'll need you to create some new and shiny tiles for new biomes. :)
Then, we'll be able to drop the test tileset, I guess.

Akien {l Wrote}:Of course. What I meant is not that we should have a fixed deadline, only that we should have a timescale in mind when planning the milestone, so that we don't plan stuff that would require 2 years of work when we would like to have frequent releases :)

Ah sure. :)

Akien {l Wrote}:What would be very nice for 0.6.0 though, but it depends on whether we have started working on scripting support and event handling, would be to have an in-game tutorial. From the first echos that we got of our players on #opendungeons, it looks like the gameplay concepts are not easy to learn; my video tutorial helps, but an in-game tutorial would definitely be a plus. And this one could be reworked when the gameplay evolves IMO, that would not be a huge problem.
But again, this might be more of a 0.7.0 goal; let's keep it at the back of our heads and we'll see how 0.6.0 evolves :)

I do think you're totally right. I must say I refrained from speaking of scripting yet, because the 0.6.0 release was already rather full. Let's give it a few months and see at the time. :)

hwoarangmy {l Wrote}:I would even say that the whole forge concept should be discussed. From what I had understood, it was to forge weapons. If we want to allow it to promote units, we should first decide which can be upgraded and how more precisely IMHO (starting by do we want to use the same room for both functions ?).

Danimal {l Wrote}:Maybe the ligth/dark temple should be instead the place to promote creatures? the creature gets annointed when put in there after a certain level and "evolves", still, hero temple has less functions than evil one.

I do think we should "restrain" the forge to be used for creatures equipment only. As Danimal said, temples (is it the same room that the main one or a new one?) could be used for that, IMHO.

Danimal {l Wrote}:I did make a list for creatures before, but basically tier 1 creeps and low level figthers (spider, goblins, adventurers, dwarf1...) tier 2 useful figthers (knigths, defender, orcs, lizarman...) tier 3 strong warriors (troll, scarab, runelord...) tier 4 unique units like bigknigth and pitdevil, as for rooms:
tier 1 the ones you get for free + training hall;
tier 2: common rooms like forge, prison, cript...;
tier 3: temples? we dont have enought to fill this list yet...

I've created issue #705 so we don't forget to document that.
The forge and the "Temples" should also get documented once implemented, IMHO.
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Danimal » 11 Jun 2015, 21:06

Tomorrow im free again, i guess ill re-start tasks again from:

- Resize door
- Fix current tileset, the dungeon biome; this includes gold texture not tiling, gem blocks, replace wall blocks.
- Stone bridge model
- New cannon model
- ... lots of stuff

Lets get the ball rolling again! ;)
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Re: OpenDungeons 0.6.0 roadmap / goals discussion.

Postby Bertram » 11 Jun 2015, 21:17

Bring them on! :D
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