OD Development Roadmap

OD Development Roadmap

Postby Danimal » 12 Sep 2014, 11:21

We currently are aiming for 0.4.9:

- 0.4.x: Basic but functional gaming experience.
--> Scope more or less defined, we have ~15 issues left before release.
--> The most annoying thing left is to sort out the cmake stuff + make OD packageable.

- 0.5.x: Start on polishing the base.
--> starting addition on evil paths.
--> Basic fog of war: My proposal: Only the tiles that have been seen once by your creatures are visible. You can drop creatures only on visible tiles. Enemy creatures are visible only when on a visible tile.
--> Models are using normals
--> Creature mood system to make the game more strategical.
--> Creature class sounds.
--> Fixing creatures fighting behaviour

- 0.6.x: Maturing
--> Spells and traps.
--> Doors?
--> Evil paths more or less implemented.
--> A lot more is configurable through ... configuration files.
--> Editor much more functional.
--> A server lobby system?

- 0.7.x: Let's make a full game
--> Basic campaign support
--> Angel script support reboot.
--> Finish/Review how culling is done. ;)
...

Let's not go too far. There is already a lot to do. From what I see, 0.5 and 0.6 tasks could be exchanged without any counter-thought. But I'd request we don't start on campaign without quite some good base gameplay or the campaign will be a boring suite of alike-looking scenarii.

Lan is so cool already as it's making the game playable an replayable with friends. :D
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 05 Nov 2014, 15:04

Minor update for 0.4.9:
Release blocker issues left:
- Balancing the game
- Improve the AI to make it at least handle minimal rooms and attack the player.
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby hwoarangmy » 21 Nov 2014, 10:22

0.4.9 is almost done now. The most needed things right now is to balance so that battles have an acceptable lenght (when creatures have same levels or not). Moreover, we need to decide if we let a minimum damage amount so that 50 weaklings can hurt a pitdemon (and if yes, what will be the minimum amount ?).
In this version, the AI is decent (it builds every rooms in a strategical way) but it uses no trap.

Concerning the roadmap, I will add the spell support to version 0.5 because:
- It is the only way to force engaging battles (otherwise, we will have to drop creatures nearby and hope they will go in the right direction). That would allow more strategical attacks.
- It will be the occasion to test it and it will force us to keep in mind spells while working on something else (and hopefully avoid making incompatible changes)
- If we only add 2 spells (available since the beginning) like thunder and rally point, it won't be too difficult
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 21 Nov 2014, 11:10

Hey :)

Moreover, we need to decide if we let a minimum damage amount so that 50 weaklings can hurt a pitdemon (and if yes, what will be the minimum amount ?).

I'd add a minimum amount of 0.1, so that 5 creatures start being annoying, even if of low level. Plus, that, would prevent a creature to effectively heal during that time.
Nothing else to add concerning 0.4.9, hwoarangmy told it :)

As for 0.5.0:
I would like to say that those goals are already done, thanks to a great deal of effort, especially by hwoarangmy:
--> Fixing creatures fighting behaviour
--> A lot more is configurable through ... configuration files.
--> Editor much more functional.
--> A server lobby system

So what I would like to see in 0.5.0 is:
- The fog of war. The gameplay changer that will turn 0.4.9 into a real game. :D Would there be one thing, it's the one.
- The addition of video, sound and game options in the corresponding stuff. Now that we have a config manager, it will be much easier to add.
- Doors. From my latest games, those are one of the next thing missing, IMHO.
I'm more than ok to add the given base spells, and try to work on finishing the core logic of rooms in general. note that Kobolds should be spawned through a base spell.
- Addition of better fighting sounds per creatures classes. I'm not even speaking of other actions, but the fight ones are really missing now, IMO.
Last but not least:
- A better if still not correct use of normals for models and a focus on how we're using lights, now that the core gameplay is rolling. The hardest part IMHO.
Thus, this one won't be forcefully ever perfect depending on our knowledge, findings and libraries upgrades available, but adding normals support to all existing models seems reachable.

Note: The goal of improving graphics is a neverending one, so not really a release based feature request.

Not for 0.5.0 IMHO, or with harder pre-requisites:
- Particles. Why? We have problems with lights and normal appliance in general. Let's fix this first. Except if an Ogre specialist ready to be commented on his/her Pull Requests comes along, of course. ;) But we're a cool team, he/she won't regret it. :)
- Finish the mood system. Now that we have spawn conditions, we're almost done, IMHO, but this should go along with a way to get rid of a creature and it has to be added first...
- AngelScript: We're not ready for a campaign yet, IMHO, anyway. And an event system should be structured first, as we're adding the FOW.
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Danimal » 21 Nov 2014, 15:14

Rising HP overall and lowering defense by a lot is the way to go for balancing (a total of 1, 2, 3 points in defense could become the new frontier when setting values). I also think its a good idea to inflict 1(?) point of damage if the creature cant overcome a strong defense value, that will help a lot to overcome the problem that is balancing so tier 1 creatures can still damage tier 4 ones.

Doors: and new traps i would add, ok ill try to make a door for next release so at least the code is on place.
Sounds: i put up together a nice compilation, someone to cut, clean and organize them is needed.

Minor petition: to change the Ogre loading screen logo to that of OD
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 24 Nov 2014, 12:12

Hey. :)

I'm in the process of adding spawn conditions to heroes creature equivalent to the keeper's ones. To have something at least looking balanced. ;)
But I'll let a few ones without conditions to make sure you have a few when starting the game.

Doors: and new traps i would add, ok ill try to make a door for next release so at least the code is on place.

Cool, thanks :)

Sounds: i put up together a nice compilation, someone to cut, clean and organize them is needed.

k, then I'll handle this part when on the next release.

Minor petition: to change the Ogre loading screen logo to that of OD

When the options menu will be added, video options will have to be added as well, and this menu will then be removed.
Also, the Ogre logo depends on the platform you're using, and whether you've installed the Ogre lib on your system or not.
Thus, it isn't really relevant to do, sorry. :)
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 24 Nov 2014, 12:16

Ok, I've added the 0.5.0 milestone on github + the issues I felt like were belonging this milestone.

As usual, feel free to correct me as you see fit.
I've got some work on my shoulders before the current release to be is out, so in the meanwhile,
if you happen to work on something not compatible with 0.4.9, feel free to use the 0.5 branch and do PR against that one.

Once, 0.4.9 is out, we'll merge dev into stable and tag stable's commit as 0.4.9. Then, 0.5 will be merged back to dev.

Best regards,
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby hwoarangmy » 26 Dec 2014, 00:21

I've created a PR about for the fog of war. And it is not basic, that's a full server side FOW ^^
Many things have been changed and it could be nice to test it through network because now, the server sends information about the map. The client do not even need to have it.
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 27 Dec 2014, 02:58

Cool! :D
I'll have a look within the few days coming.

Merry Christmas to all! :D
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 26 Feb 2015, 11:47

Hey there,

Just an update on the overall roadmap:
- 0.5.x: Start on polishing the base.
--> starting addition on evil paths. --> Turned into the research tree. Logic part is done, the GUI is left.
--> Basic fog of war. --> Done, even the not basic part is done, btw. :D
--> Models are using normals --> Rooms done, creatures in progress. Thanks to Danimal for the hard work that now shines thanks to oln fixing the last lighting bugs yesterday!!
--> Creature mood system to make the game more strategical. --> hwoarangmy ate that without even noticing. :cool:
--> Fixing creatures fighting behaviour --> Only a few questions remain on the ranged fighters. Danimal still needs to add a ranged fighter for the Keeper faction.

--> Creature class sounds. --> TODO.

Objectives to do added for 0.5.0:
--> User map support. Support to permit players to create their own maps and differenciate them from the packaged level is yet to be done.
--> Turn the forge into the workshop (Already used to craft traps) and then use the new forge to craft equipment.
--> Add voice off on events support.

- 0.6.x: Maturing
--> Spells and traps. --> Traps already done in 0.4.9, spells are now done in 0.5.0. :)
--> A lot more is configurable through ... configuration files. --> Done already on 0.4.9.
--> Editor much more functional. --> Functional in 0.4.9. Done in 0.5.0. The only thing left is to be able to create new levels only through the GUI, but that's really the last thing.
--> Evil paths more or less implemented. --> Again, the research tree only lacks the GUI.

Left to do:
--> Doors?
--> A server lobby system?

- 0.7.x: Let's make a full game
--> Basic campaign support
--> Angel script support reboot.
--> Finish/Review how culling is done. ;) --> Done.

As you can see, there is not much left to do from the original 0.5.0 goals, and several goals from the next milestone are already a reality. :D

Best regards,
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby hwoarangmy » 26 Feb 2015, 12:17

Bertram {l Wrote}:--> Editor much more functional. --> Functional in 0.4.9. Done in 0.5.0. The only thing left is to be able to create new levels only through the GUI, but that's really the last thing.
Well, there are also some stuff missing:
- Allow to configure the level (description, goals, seats, ...)
- Allowing to configure entities (creature HP, level, trap activation, ...)
- Allowing to add objects (treasuries, research boxes, ...)
- And, as you said, allow to create a level from scratch

Bertram {l Wrote}:As you can see, there is not much left to do from the original 0.5.0 goals, and several goals from the next milestone are already a reality. :D
IMHO, we are closer to a 1.0 version than from a 0.5.0 ;)
With what we have done so far (and what is under development ATM), we are only lacking the campaign to have a full game. Of course, more features (rooms, traps, spells, sounds, ...) would be better. But now, we are not talking about making a game but about improving a game (and there is a huge difference :cool: )
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 26 Feb 2015, 17:06

- Allow to configure the level (description, goals, seats, ...)
- Allowing to configure entities (creature HP, level, trap activation, ...)
- Allowing to add objects (treasuries, research boxes, ...)
- And, as you said, allow to create a level from scratch

Yep, but a no-custom-parameters level edition was the first goal and it was achieved very quickly! Anyway, we're not that far from the complete goal either. :)

IMHO, we are closer to a 1.0 version than from a 0.5.0 ;)
With what we have done so far (and what is under development ATM), we are only lacking the campaign to have a full game. Of course, more features (rooms, traps, spells, sounds, ...) would be better. But now, we are not talking about making a game but about improving a game (and there is a huge difference :cool: )

Yeah, the progress done is amazing. :) There are still a few rough edge here and there, but the overall quality of it is great.
I'd still name it 0.5.0 as there is still a lot of work, especially on the GUI. :S

Here is a list of strategical elements we should maybe start to talk about since we've advanced a lot on the rest:
- Infinite (or lot of) gold tile. This tile takes longer to dig, but you can get much more gold out of it.
- Mana pool: This mana pool boosts the Keeper mana regen when the tiles around it are of its color. Will be useful once we have more spells/skills.
- Wandering heroes / worms?: Heroes (or units) that can dig through dirt and act as feral fighter creatures.
- Hazard portals: Portals that spawn (feral or factioned) creatures, even by waves and can be combined with the creatures types above. Their spawn pool is custom.
Certain maps may be made only of you against that type of opponent. This kind of portal is very close to what we have now.
- Crafted spells/skills: Skills left on maps, and other goodies but more on it once we can script.

Ah, I can't wait for bridges, doors, gates, and the workshop future forge. :)

All that is here for memory, let's keep doing one thing at a time.

Best regards,
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby hwoarangmy » 26 Feb 2015, 17:22

Bertram {l Wrote}:Yep, but a no-custom-parameters level edition was the first goal and it was achieved very quickly! Anyway, we're not that far from the complete goal either. :)
Yes ^^

Bertram {l Wrote}:I'd still name it 0.5.0 as there is still a lot of work, especially on the GUI. :S
I'm not aksing to change the name as it is still an alpha version since there is not enough data. I'm just saying that we can be proud :)

Bertram {l Wrote}:- Crafted spells/skills: Skills left on maps, and other goodies but more on it once we can script.
That's already possible to drop researchs on map. And level files will support it soon as I'm on it ;)
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 26 Feb 2015, 17:58

I'm just saying that we can be proud :)

I am, of the whole team work. :cool:

That's already possible to drop researchs on map. And level files will support it soon as I'm on it ;)

Woohoo, Christmas every day. :D

Btw, in april 2 DK-like games will release with linux support:
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/ ... hown.5016/
And of course: War for the Overworld! https://wftogame.com/

\O/ A lot of stuff to be utterly Evil.
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Danimal » 26 Feb 2015, 18:16

I feel like im being the show stopper lately, sorry but RL (tm) is doing its best at keeping me away from blender :(

- Infinite (or lot of) gold tile. This tile takes longer to dig, but you can get much more gold out of it.
- Mana pool: This mana pool boosts the Keeper mana regen when the tiles around it are of its color. Will be useful once we have more spells/skills.

Les have both of them have the same mechanic, in DK digging the same wall is limited to 3 imps, we dont have that limitation so it would be unfair having 20 kobolds working on just a gold tile and pouring huge loads of gold. I propose to recall it to gem mine, a 2x2 tiles building that cant be build, only found; and that pour out gold to its surroundings without the need of kobolds (think of a hole into the ground with ropes and the like) at fixed intervals, kobolds would need to go carry the gold from it to treasury, but besides that it would be autonomus like the mana well and a resource to figth over in the map. (it could also directly add the gold to the treasury instead of throwing it to the ground)
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby hwoarangmy » 26 Feb 2015, 18:37

Some kind of Philosopher's stone ? Seems like a good idea to me
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 26 Feb 2015, 18:47

(it could also directly add the gold to the treasury instead of throwing it to the ground)

I like the fact that Kobolds have to get it. I'd make it drop gold simply. That way, the Keeper that claimed the surroundings would get the money, hence creating a heat point on the map. ;)
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Danimal » 26 Feb 2015, 19:10

Btw, in april 2 DK-like games will release with linux support:
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/ ... hown.5016/
And of course: War for the Overworld! https://wftogame.com/


Me want... but i also loose heart when i see the differences with pro work and my own
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Vandar » 26 Feb 2015, 21:47

Well they usually spend a lot of money on their game projects. You shouldn't compare yourself with them.
I have project-ADHS, sorry.
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 26 Feb 2015, 22:04

but i also loose heart when i see the differences with pro work and my own

Well, imagine how I feel with skills in modeling when I see your models. ;)
I'm sure you'll improve over time, just as you've already improved in one year.
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby eugeneloza » 27 Feb 2015, 04:07

that pour out gold to its surroundings without the need of kobolds (think of a hole into the ground with ropes and the like) at fixed intervals, kobolds would need to go carry the gold from it to treasury

Sounds fantastic! Limits mining/time amount.
Maybe, mana wells should also use this logic?
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 27 Feb 2015, 13:19

Yes, could be cool. :) But without the endless enemy waves kind of threat or more spells, we don't really need such entities yet.
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Vandar » 27 Feb 2015, 15:19

Personally, I like the idea.

But seen from a game designers point of view, it is a dangerous idea - so far gold was a limited resource, which eventually ended the game if used up. Fighting about gold resources was important, and not only get them, but to get them early and mine more of them than the competitors.

An endless mine changes the game. It becomes open ended, and wear-down strategies against the AI become possible. It allows more passive and defensive playstyles.

I don't want to say the idea is bad, but you must be aware of the changes, since it is a fairly drastic change to the game.

DK 1 had gem mines which never were used up. Very good for my playstyle, but more than once I just waited that the AI makes too many mistakes and I could overpower it. So, no strategy on my side required, but waiting for mistakes of the opponent.
I have project-ADHS, sorry.
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby Bertram » 27 Feb 2015, 15:49

Well, you completely get it. The idea behind such items is to make defensive strategies possible, but not every level should have one, and most multiplayer levels shouldn't.

That said, in certain longer single player/campaign levels, especially with triggered events, it's a must to me.
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Re: OD Development Roadmap

Postby hwoarangmy » 23 Mar 2015, 10:13

I've just had a look at the roadmap to see where we currently are and it seems like the 0.5.0 is almost the planned 0.6.0 :cool:
We are just missing the doors and maybe some editor functionnality (seat configuration/new map/entities customization)
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