OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Elvano » 27 Apr 2014, 21:53

A wizard is no ranged fighter, but rather a mage-class.
A ranged fighter would be an archer and/or rifle type.
Do we have any of those yet?

I've added the other names as replacement for "worker" and "melee fighter", though =)
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Danimal » 27 Apr 2014, 22:17

A wizard is basically a fancy and showy ranged fighter; lets avoid guns, ok? its strange but it kinda breaks all medieval atmosphere, even if we have cannons as defenses :think:
Archer from heroes ( maybe we should add a dark elf? we have no archer-like creature on the keeeper side) can be an example, but there is no model yet for it.

I also added gems to the TODO, they are like gold but endless, it adds some strategic deepness since you really want to be its owner and have to move fast to get to it..
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Elvano » 27 Apr 2014, 22:33

Danimal {l Wrote}:A wizard is basically a fancy and showy ranged fighter; lets avoid guns, ok? its strange but it kinda breaks all medieval atmosphere, even if we have cannons as defenses

A Wizard isn't a fighter class, hence no ranged fighter.
The first firearms were introduced around 1100 or so.

Danimal {l Wrote}:Archer from heroes ( maybe we should add a dark elf? we have no archer-like creature on the keeeper side) can be an example, but there is no model yet for it.

Might not be a bad idea at all. We must make sure nobody is already working on it, but I guess it can't hurt replacing the name already.

Danimal {l Wrote}:I also added gems to the TODO, they are like gold but endless, it adds some strategic deepness since you really want to be its owner and have to move fast to get to it.

I'm sorry Danimal, but I can't allow changes to the to-do.
I only pushed some changes to it that have been decided for the tech demo with the team before and I just recently got acces again to.
We have alot of plans, ideas and features to add. But we take this one step at the time or we'll lose ourselves again.
Keep it in mind though and bring it up when we're discussing the next stage (aka after we finish the current one).
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Danimal » 27 Apr 2014, 22:51

Ok, i wont touch TODO again;
Regarding long range fighters, there is the bounty hunter from ancient beast, but i think a more clasical archer should be added anyways:
http://ancientbeast.com/units/#Bounty_Hunter

For the keeper side, a dark elf could fit the spot.

Arent you being too minded with the wizard? What difference is there between the ranged figther and mage class? Both attack from afar, one shoots arrows, the other fireballs, and both may have another magical skills; more varied in the case of the wizard, but still available to other creatures of different classes.
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Elvano » 28 Apr 2014, 13:24

Perhaps I am, but to my mind:
  • A fighter has only the responsibility of winning or aiding in a battle where a wizard researches spells and such (dk-wise).
  • In terms of RPG the mage depends on intelligence for damage rather than strength/dexterty of a ranged fighter.
  • A wizard has high damage and low 'everything else' where a ranged fighter has most things medium, thus being a more balanced.
  • A wizard is mental strength as where the fighter causes damage by physical actions

Regarding this it's hard to think of the wizard as "ranged fighter", though I suppose it's possible that at this point they have the same features and would only have their model as difference
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Bertram » 28 Apr 2014, 14:13

Hi :)

I hope at this point I didn't start a wizard or not wizard argument with my last comment, but it seems I did. :lol:

I only cited the Wizard being a range fighter since it's the creature which has the highest fighting range atm.
And as you said, there is no intelligence notion in OD, only mana per level, as the closest stat. My apologies if the creature doesn't fit.

Note that a weapon/shield system has been implemented in OD (not by me), even including potential support for displaying corresponding meshes.
Maybe a creature skill/spell system could be added as well, unlocking new attack types when reaching a given level, but without going too far, maybe?
(Atm, mana is useless for creatures.)

Also, as previously written, creatures are not balanced at all, and most are stats copies of one another.

So I guess, we need a brand new range fighter keeper creature?

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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Danimal » 28 Apr 2014, 14:14

Actually, i dont know if we have a damage system that takes into account if damage is magical/physical or creature physical/ magical defense. It would be great if there is already, since a ghost would be almost inmune to physical damage but very weak to magical.

FYI i used mages in dk for everything, researching, figthing and even put them in the worshop when needed (let them learn meteor spell and they will literally blast to pieces their enemies); im fine with your classification, its just i dont understand where you are taking it. What difference is separating them into different categories? except for order and categorization shake there is not much. I can see your points, but not the end behind them.
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Danimal » 28 Apr 2014, 14:25

Maybe a creature skill/spell system could be added as well, unlocking new attack types when reaching a given level, but without going too far, maybe?

That a very important part of DK, raising a creature levels so it learns stronger skills/spells
(Atm, mana is useless for creatures.)

Please enlightmen me, how are creature stats handled?

Concept i found on Ancient beast repository:
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Dark%20elf%20by%20Katarzyna%20Zalecka.jpg
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Bertram » 28 Apr 2014, 15:42

Please enlightmen me, how are creature stats handled?

Without going as far as enlightening someone which is in the project since much longer than myself, here are the bits I gathered so far: ;)

The creature have those stats:

- Level: Base value of 1. Will go up to 100.
- hp/level: The max HP value the creature will have per level.
- mana/level: The max mana value the creature will have per level.
- maxHP: The absolute max HP value the creature can ever have, whatever its level is.
- maxMana: The absolute max mana value the creature can ever have, whatever its level is.
- sightRadius: The visibility the creature has got around it, in tile. Permitting to check for stuff to dig, claim, attack, ...
- digRate: The rate per turn the creature can reduce the tile fullness.
- danceRate: The rate per turn, the creature can claim a tile or a wall in percent.
- moveSpeed: Is the speed in tiles depending on the turn per seconds and time elapsed per frame (in seconds): All in all. Speed in tiles = 1.4 * moveSpeed * secondsSinceLastFrame
- TilePassability: Tells on which tile passability type the creature can go through. currently, walkable Tiles per default, flyableTile, or impassableTile (walls).

- Damage: Base value of 1.
- Defense: Base value of: 3 + defense values of weapons.
- Range: base value of one tile, replaced eventually by the weapon own range when computing the reachable enemies.

- A right weapon and a left weapon. Each of those has got a damage, defense and range modifier.
When attacking, the creature use his left and right weapon and wait for next turn.

The attack is computed like this:
Base value of 1 + weapon attack if the weapon range is sufficient.
then the new value multiplied by log(log(creature_level + 1) + 1); (log() is there twice, not a typo.)

Newly spawned creatures have both weapons having 5 in damage, 4 in range, and 0 in defense, but certain ones already on map at load time have some more powerful, making them more deadly.

the creatures all heal of 0.1 HP and 0.45 mana point per turn,
+ 1 HP and 1 mana per turn when sleeping.
+ 4.0% in awakeness when sleeping per turn.

- Their awakeness (starting at 100.0) decreases of 0.15 per turn.
Not long time ago, I made creatures go to bed when they have less than 1/3 of their HP, as I found out them dying too easily even when fixing the max HP problem.

Level up:
While on it, note that the worker creatures dig rates and claim rates grow like this when levelling up:
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
DigRate += 4.0 * level / (level + 5.0);
DanceRate += 0.12 * level / (level + 5.0);


All the creature move speed grows like this when levelling up:
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
MoveSpeed += 0.4 / (level + 2.0);


Their scale grows by 3-4% each 2 levels before level 30, and then each 3 levels.

Their max health, mana is increased on level up using the corresponding parameters.

A creature earnes XP while digging, claiming, attacking, training, and earn a level when its Experience is above:
5 * (level + pow(level / 3.0, 2))

- cHumans
- cCorpars
- cUndead
- cConstructs
- cDenizens
- cAltruism
- cOrder
- cPeace:
From what I understood, all those are doing this:
When the portal wants to spawn a creature, it will make a probability list based on the current factions (Humans, ...) the current player has already got, and will change those probabilities according to the already spawned creatures faction values given here.
I didn't look at this thoroughly, but it seems all those values are becoming more or less obsolete, according to the new system of spawn pools. I must say I would like to know what to do with those. If I add support for custom spawn pools per player/AI + spawn conditions based on the rooms existence, will those still be needed?

Overall, I hope I helped you.
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Danimal » 28 Apr 2014, 17:08

Yes, you were very helpful giving me a headache :cry: ;

If I add support for custom spawn pools per player/AI + spawn conditions based on the rooms existence, will those still be needed?

I would say to erase (but make a backup) all the old code, since it wanted to use an alignation algoritm that was never implemented, imo the "spawn pool/ rooms needs" system is easier, and all of those factions you see were simplified to only two (keeper and heroes).

The weapon system is interesting in theory, but how is it implemented in the game? can better weapons be produced and creatures will equip them? that would give the forge a new meaning but i see problems with weapons like staffs for mages or bows for archer, since anyone can equip them anyways?. It also worries me that most melee weapons add to a range of 4 , shouldnt it be just 1 excepting maybe pike/spears?

The rest of the stats will need balancing for sure, no bug should have more hp than an orc. Mana is also useless as you said, i guess skills with a cooldown is a better design choice than creating an inteligent system to tell the creatures how to spend their mana in a battle.
There is also the issue of defense value being the same for everything, so it doesnt seen possible to differentiate between damage types and defenses (physical/magical) wich would enrich the game a bit.

I dont want to impose, but an external editor for creatures def files seems like a need on the long run.

Thanks for the explanation, this beast bowels are scary indeed
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Bertram » 29 Apr 2014, 09:08

Hi, :)

I would say to erase (but make a backup) all the old code, since it wanted to use an alignation algoritm that was never implemented, imo the "spawn pool/ rooms needs" system is easier, and all of those factions you see were simplified to only two (keeper and heroes).

I do also believe more in your new system. As for the erase but backup, I think removing it in a specific commit is the best way to keep it stored since git permits easy reverts.
I'll give the commit link once done, for saving purpose.

The weapon system is interesting in theory, but how is it implemented in the game? can better weapons be produced and creatures will equip them? that would give the forge a new meaning but i see problems with weapons like staffs for mages or bows for archer, since anyone can equip them anyways?. It also worries me that most melee weapons add to a range of 4 , shouldnt it be just 1 excepting maybe pike/spears?

Atm, two weapons are attached to a creature at its creation time (the right one and the left one). Weapon handling is still basic and I do think not thoroughly tested since detaching a weapon from a creature will make the game crash atm, and changing the weapon would give a memleak.

Atm, looking at the forge code, nothing is done besides loading the room objects and the creatures don't have any forge action code.

As for the restriction upon who can equip what, we're not there yet, but it will be interesting to define it, once new weapons can be produced/collected in game.

As for the default range problem, I sincerely hope that value wasn't set to hide a bug but I'll set it back to 1 per default and tell you if it's still ok.

I dont want to impose, but an external editor for creatures def files seems like a need on the long run.[...]
The rest of the stats will need balancing for sure, no bug should have more hp than an orc.

Well, the creatures.def file doesn't need a specific editor IMO, plus it would be a rather heavy development to do for no interesting result. Id' say, simply open the file in a text editor and start editing. That's what I've done after all. ;)
On the other hand, I'd rather think the creation of a spreadsheet about how the different stats trend when leveling and how the different creatures are balanced against one another will be a pre-requisite for a better balancing. (I had to do that for VT, btw).

Mana is also useless as you said, i guess skills with a cooldown is a better design choice than creating an inteligent system to tell the creatures how to spend their mana in a battle.

Good idea. I'm supporting it as well.

Note to self: (Feel free to tell me if something is not fitting here.) :)
- Lower music volume & and add new in-game music.
- Change the wall height (z) scaling to 0.5.
- Test the default weapon range with a value of 1 and see whether the fighting behavior is still ok.
- Remove the faction values in specific commits to keep a clean trace of those and give Danimal the commit link.
- While on it, prevent crashes when no weapons are attached to a creature by adding necessary checks, and prevent the memleak identified if changing the weapons after the creature creation.

Note for Later? (4.10-4.11?)
- Remove Mana and add something like "skill obtained at level" parameter in the creatures.def file or new array.
- Add new def files telling the room, room object, trap, and/or weapon mesh file to use for the given name, permitting to add parameters like scaling, Room HP, attack, defense, range, ... easier config and tweaking and remove some engine hard-coding.
- Split creatures/weapons attack/defense/range into physical and magical ones.
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Danimal » 29 Apr 2014, 11:59

- While on it, prevent crashes when no weapons are attached to a creature by adding necessary checks, and prevent the memleak identified if changing the weapons after the creature creation.

A cheap fix could be to create a weapon that has 0 on everything, basically an empty placeholder, but i know thats not a good code practice.
This open many possibilities, like creatures having prefered/restricted weapons, and being able to craft on the forge, say, 3 tiers of quality, each of them more gaudy (Good, Masterful, Magical qualities); lets make all of them spawn with a bad quality one ; so while in the forge, blacksmith first give priority to creating traps/doors and in their spare time make weapons, for that purpose, walls would be needed to put up weapon racks (3 tiles near walls for one weapon rack) each weapon rack contains one of each weapon (1 sword,bow,shield,staff,axe,spear...); the first weapon rack created would be for good quality weapons, the second for masterful, the third for magical, the fourth for good quality again (so it cicles).
Of course the weapon racks start empty, each weapon forged needs productions points (each time one is created, the model appears on the rack); Each tier needing far more than the previous. Work priority always goes to fill the lower qualities before the higher ones. Ex:
Good quality: 100 workpoints per weapon
Masterful: 500 workpoints per weapon
Magical: 2000 workpoints per weapon

- Split creatures/weapons attack/defense/range into physical and magical ones.

I absolutely support this, it will be fun pitting your mages agaisnt low magical defense warriors.

- Change the wall height (z) scaling to 0.5.

Ok, I'll put the walls z scaling to 0.6 and we'll see.

You confused that one scale, no prob thougth
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Bertram » 02 May 2014, 11:38

Hi there,

I was working on the crash when adding the training room last night, and I ended up kinda annoyed by other little problems and more importantly, threads getting in the way.
So guess what, I put my work aside, and started removing threads from the code as discussed with oln, in favour of a single-threaded loop, with early exits where necessary to keep load balanced, and it went pretty well!! :D

Hence, on my gihub fork, you can now find the following changes:
- Theads and semaphores are now removed from game, only AngelScript and the Ogre Log Manager keep using them now.
- Fixed a game freeze when a creature reached the max level cap. This was more obvious now the level cap is set to 30.
- Fixed the three race conditions seen at random when spawning a creature, a room or a trap thanks to the threads removal.
- Fixed the crashes seen a app exit thanks to the threads removal.
- You can now start the game editor, press escape, and then choose New game. Playing several maps within the same session isn't yet possible, but we're almost there.
- The stack trace are now much more explicit and should ease a lot debugging. It was for me at least.
- Added the creature level missing parameter in the level files, making possible to load maps with "boss" creatures. ;)

There is one known "regression" (I put this between double quotes since the feature was broken anyway)
- The server can't accept and handle clients without freezing the game for the local player due to a socket function being returning only at new login attempts.
I plan to fix that by replacing the socket there with the SFML network component and API.

Note also that I adopted the client/server model the code was more or less following already. In the future, even the local player (the player playing on the system which acts as a server), should also send requests to the server component instead of directly updating the game world data (thus acting like a standard remote client with a few efficiency shortcuts of course), since otherwise it will be much more difficult to debug discrepancies between local and multiplayer games.

Could someone test my fork and give some feedback?

Best regards,
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby MCMic » 05 May 2014, 16:59

Somehow it seems to still use both my cpus, is opengl threading render on its own?

There are still a glitch with walls, the one near the border have a transparent corner.
I also still see the black square on the yellow robots (the one that dig).

Claimed wall are also ugly, why are they all green?

I’m sorry I did such general comments which does not really concern your last changes, but as far as I know there is no regression.
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby MCMic » 05 May 2014, 19:15

A Middle clic just crashed the game. It was on a dwarf warrior, not sure if that’s important.

[EDIT] A canon firing also crashes the game
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Bertram » 05 May 2014, 21:14

Hi MCmic,

Thanks for all your tests :)

A Middle clic just crashed the game. It was on a dwarf warrior, not sure if that’s important.
[EDIT] A canon firing also crashes the game

We were aware of the middle-click crash. It's coming from a CEGUI Exception when trying to read certain attribute in the status windows, so it will crash for any creature.
I wasn't aware of the trap bug, though. Thanks for noticing. :) (I added it to the todo list)

Somehow it seems to still use both my cpus, is opengl threading render on its own?

I do think Ogre is multi-threaded yes even if I don't know how exactly, and AS and the logmanager are using their own threads, too.

There are still a glitch with walls, the one near the border have a transparent corner.
I also still see the black square on the yellow robots (the one that dig).

Yep, graphics are far from perfect. The robot glitch must come from your drivers, the holes on corner are a bug in the handling of the mesh files, even if a minor one.
The tiles should be redone in a much simpler way, I like the way Danimal suggested it, btw.

Claimed wall are also ugly, why are they all green?

Claimed walls get green when claimed because this is your team color. I know this is ugly but the actual goal is to color only a part of it, such as symbols or whatever, just like the real goal is to color only the cross on the middle of the claimed ground tiles. Yet, I didn't have the time to figure that out, yet, and I had to fix it somehow, so that's how I fixed it. The previous way was even worse.

I’m sorry I did such general comments which does not really concern your last changes, but as far as I know there is no regression.

This is cool to hear as I actually fixed several of my own-made regressions. ;D

Regards,
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby MCMic » 05 May 2014, 22:18

Bertram {l Wrote}:Yep, graphics are far from perfect. The robot glitch must come from your drivers, the holes on corner are a bug in the handling of the mesh files, even if a minor one.
The tiles should be redone in a much simpler way, I like the way Danimal suggested it, btw.

I like the actual tiles, I think something simpler won’t look as good.
If only the up part were colored when selected and not the whole tile (so the ground keep the ground color) it would look terrific

We also need a coloring of tiles when clic and dragging before the clic is released.

Thank you for your work on this game :-)
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Bertram » 05 May 2014, 23:07

You're right about the tiles. I'll try to fix that little by little.

As for the selection, I do agree, too. But there are few things that needs fixing while on it.
For instance, the colouring of the tile should not be your color when marking it for digging, and the colouring of a claimed tile shouldn't disappear when deselecting for digging.

I'll be on that sooner or later. ;)
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Bertram » 12 May 2014, 23:45

Hi again,

I made a few patches. Can someone review them whenever you get the time to? (Latest ones on github)

Cleaned-up the Room class. …
56022efce5

Dropped the now useless ProtectedObject class and made corresponding ...
78a292bf0c

Turned the turn number into a simple gam map member. …
b56c06971e

Removed now uneeded locking/unlocking of turns
7ed1ba5e50

Regards,
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby paul424 » 13 May 2014, 10:18

Yeap, I just compiled and it runs fine , you can merge into development branch .
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Bertram » 13 May 2014, 15:34

Ok, following Danimal's evil plan, I'll work on fixing the main rooms object behaviour, and slot computation next.
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Bertram » 01 Jul 2014, 08:47

Hi there,

Just to say that short-term, I'm on fixing the existing rooms. I've already fixed the crashes caused by the Temple and the Portal as told in the other thread, and I'll commit some good simplifications to the dormitory rooms asap.

I've also made a few tries on improving the creatures behaviour and I've got a few ones working btw, need to clean that on push it sometimes in the future,
yet I'm still working on making the creatures go and seek marked tiles, even not visible ones as I felt on something new:
It seems the creatures have a bad time going through narrow (1-tile wide) corridors when they are not placed in front of it. I still need to investigate on this even if I have suspicions about the cutCorners() function.

There is also a little glitch making the tile being colored without setting it to claimed, must be because of the way the colourValue parameter is checked, since throughout the code, it is rarely checked correctly everywhere, and I'll try to fix sooner or later.

Githubbers, you should try the latest development branch, which has been synced with sourceforge, and have a look at the new level selection menu hwoarangmy has done. It's cool. :)
It opens the door for a lot of usability improvements!
The primary need will be to add a proper in-game window skin, that I'll reuse for the creature stats window (very useful for debugging.), and we'll also need to add other info on the map we wish to load: The map name, description, number of player slots & AI, ...
The filename (without the .level part) currently shown in the list box should then be replaced with the name of the map.

hwoarangmy has already done a great piece of work there anyway and I thank him warmly for that.
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby Danimal » 01 Jul 2014, 12:35

nice :) litle by litle you are forcing me to learn how to compile the Dev branch
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby hwoarangmy » 01 Jul 2014, 21:54

Bertram {l Wrote}:The filename (without the .level part) currently shown in the list box should then be replaced with the name of the map.
Yes, it should be good to have info about the map and a preview.

Bertram {l Wrote}:hwoarangmy has already done a great piece of work there anyway and I thank him warmly for that.
You are welcome :)

Concerning multiplayer, I have made a quick GUI based on the level chooser that works. I guess later, when a new player will install the game, he should be prompted some stuff like language, nickname... For now, I have added the nickname edit and the client IP edit in the multiplayer screen.
It seems to load more or less. I've fixed some issues with seat handling but it is not playable yet. I've tried the Test level but adding tiles takes more than 30 minutes (seen with logs). I will have a look to see if something can be done about it. But even when everything is loaded, the game does not work. I will try to make a smaller map (lets say 50x50) and try to figure out what is going on.
I will go on holidays for 3 weeks next week so I will not be able to work on OD during that time.
Sorry, I will be too busy eating ice cream on the beach :(
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Re: OD - Ordered TODO list thread

Postby paul424 » 01 Jul 2014, 22:38

So could I get merged what;' s on my integration branch ? Bertram ?
You could all use the loigging system I made :) ?
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