ghoulsblade {l Wrote}:cant..... resist.... flamewar..... XD
ghoulsblade {l Wrote}:* java=slow & memory hungry compared to c++, benchmark : http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/java.php
ghoulsblade {l Wrote}:* (also interesting : http://blog.gmarceau.qc.ca/2009/05/spee ... ty-of.html)
ghoulsblade {l Wrote}:* not commonly used in gamedev industry (name 10 tripple-a titles using java?, compare lua)
* yes there are hobby-gamedev projects using java, but there are also projects using almost any imaginable language. whatever works for you i suppose.
** being technically interesting or theoretically good isn't the same as being practically useful
** how "successfull" they can be considered to be is highly subjective, one "minimum" would be "100+ players average online" for multiplayer games (not 100 per day, but rather at any given time 100 or more players online, compared to several thousands or even millions for commercial games)
Julius {l Wrote}:I think the main point that speaks for Java is that when it is used for 3D games usually the CPU load compared to the GPU load is rather insignificant anyways, so the Java overhead doesn't hurt so much and OpenGL calls run just as fast in a Java as in a C++ game (to my knowledge).
On the benefits side you have that Java is easier to code and bugfix and that it is extremely portable, e.g. you don't even need to port it... take the same .Jar and it will run on systems you don't even know they exists (as long as they have Java ported and a OpenGL GPU) and will probably do so even 10 or 20 years in the future.
Taken that and the probability that ARM based (most likely Android driven) devices will bite off a significant chunk of both the console and the PC market, and the extreme easyness of running a Java based game on those, I think everyone starting a new game project right now should have a look at Java.
And if FOSS games ever have a chance to reach a wider audience, then most likely it will be on this devices.
Take the Motorola phone for example, which comes with a docking station to use as a "PC"... for a lot of current PC users this would be a perfectly reasonable replacement for their PC, as Firefox and a office program runs on it (with ARM Windows8 soon even Microsoft Office). The only thing that is missing are games, even though these systems are perfectly capable of running quite nice looking ones (take the Nvidia Tegra2 chip for example). So if you release a FOSS game for those, you can be quite sure you will get an quite big audience for it.
Disclamer: That said... I am not really much of a programmer, so I might be talking out of my ass
ghoulsblade {l Wrote}:C/C++ itself code and many libraries are crossplatform already, and even cross-compiling (e.g. win/mac) to generate binaries for different platforms is possible using gcc, although most hobby developers tend to not look into it in detail.
oln {l Wrote}:ghoulsblade {l Wrote}:C/C++ itself code and many libraries are crossplatform already, and even cross-compiling (e.g. win/mac) to generate binaries for different platforms is possible using gcc, although most hobby developers tend to not look into it in detail.
I would say that it's mostly hobby developers/"indie" companies that do look into compiling and coding for more platforms when it comes to C++. (When it comes to gaming at least.) Most of the big companies don't. (Though this could have reasons not related to programming language or code in any way.)
Further Android is a very different Java target then Java SE. It doesn't even run .jars, it runs it's own dvorak bytecode and only a slither of it's libraries are compatible. Android supplies it's own libraries for most code. There is also no Oracle JRE available for ARM; so you could not build for Windows and run on an ARM machine.
I'd disagree that the iphone/android/mobile games are the main gaming platform of the future.
Sure they are used by many people and are responsible for a big chunk of the cash involved in commercial games,
but i for one would still have a PC with a nice big screen, a decent 3D accellerator card, and a mouse in mind when i talk about "computer games".
Julius {l Wrote}:Further Android is a very different Java target then Java SE. It doesn't even run .jars, it runs it's own dvorak (edit: I meant Dalvik) bytecode and only a slither of it's libraries are compatible. Android supplies it's own libraries for most code. There is also no Oracle JRE available for ARM; so you could not build for Windows and run on an ARM machine.
Really? I wasn't aware of that... hmm but you can let the different JRE create the byte-code on the fly out of the java source-code, right (remembering my limited Java programming experience nearly 10 years back...)? And that Dvorak is that different is really a shame, for me that seemed to be one of the main positive points of Android...
Julius {l Wrote}:I never said so... what I said is that they will be a significant portion of it (cutting away both from the PC and console market) and that some of them actually will be used to dock to a big screen and keyboard/mouse and have a decent 3D accelerator (look at the demos of the new Nvidia Tegra chip) thus completely replacing the PC for many people. Sure they will not be for the hard-core gamer... but everything up to the level of things like World of Warcraft can be run on mobile chips right now already and soon everything except for the most graphic intensive FPS games will have no trouble running on them either.
StudioFortress {l Wrote}:Further Android is a very different Java target then Java SE. It doesn't even run .jars, it runs it's own dvorak bytecode and only a slither of it's libraries are compatible. Android supplies it's own libraries for most code. There is also no Oracle JRE available for ARM; so you could not build for Windows and run on an ARM machine.
charlie {l Wrote}:StudioFortress {l Wrote}:Further Android is a very different Java target then Java SE. It doesn't even run .jars, it runs it's own dvorak bytecode and only a slither of it's libraries are compatible. Android supplies it's own libraries for most code. There is also no Oracle JRE available for ARM; so you could not build for Windows and run on an ARM machine.
You write so eloquently.
Then you just fabricate stuff completely as well.
Tuxide {l Wrote}:It's not uncommon for Java implementations and tools such as Dalvik to only support a subset of the Java Class Library, especially tools that are written by Google. Who wants to use Swing and AWT on an Android anyways? Even GWT only supports a subset of java.lang.* and java.util.*; things like reflection and java.io.* will never be supported.
I've never developed for Android myself, but I would imagine due to differences in class libraries alone developing for Android is not the same as developing a desktop application in Java, or developing for GWT, or developing a robot controller in Java, despite the fact you would use Java for all of these.
StudioFortress {l Wrote}:My bad on getting the name wrong, I'm sorry for that. But please don't call me liar.
charlie {l Wrote}:StudioFortress {l Wrote}:My bad on getting the name wrong, I'm sorry for that. But please don't call me liar.
Corrected.
FreakNigh {l Wrote}:Is it a massive server crunching a ton of information, because that will not be ideal for java?
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