POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Would a web-based git repository hosted by FGD be of use to you?

No, I am using Github (or other existing) and would not use it at all.
5
45%
Not really, but I might set up a simple code mirror
1
9%
Not for my code, but a separate issue tracker and/or wiki for a project might be interesting
0
No votes
Yes, as a smaller project repository only for open-source games seems useful
2
18%
Yes, as using only FOSS software is important to me (and Gitlab isn't to my liking)
1
9%
Yes, as I like to have everything in one place to allow easier interaction with players
0
No votes
Yes, other (please comment below)
1
9%
No, other (please comment below)
1
9%
 
Total votes : 11

POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Julius » 02 Feb 2018, 14:00

This one is a poll mainly for developers, but users very active in testing early releases or bug reporting can also vote.

We could set up one of the available web front-ends to a git repository here on FGD that would exclusively cater to open-source game developers.

The options are pretty much:
Gitlab CE https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce (slightly cut down self-hosted version of the Gitlab.com service)
Gitea https://gitea.io/ (lightweight Github clone, not as "freemium" as Gitlab CE)

With current strong preferrence to Gitea (or Gogs, which is more or less the same), due much lower server requirements.
You can have a look at it's features here: https://docs.gitea.io/en-us/

Gitea demo: https://try.gitea.io/demo/test

Login could most likely be linked to the same as the forum, so all forum users could directly log into Gitea as well and submit issues or (if allowed) edit the wiki etc.

I also think this kind of repository with wiki is much preferable to our current "public" wiki, as wikis are always "owned" by someone and not just public waste-lands.

Note that due to server storage space limitation each individual account would probably be allocated only very limited space (5mb?). For officially hosted projects this could be increased of course, but I don't think FGD should become a file-hoster or the location to download large open-source games.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Lyberta » 02 Feb 2018, 15:54

I honestly don't know. I host my stuff on GitLab and contribute to other projects on GitLab and GitHub. I think some developers tend not to like to create a separate account to report a minor bug. That's why GitHub became so popular - because everyone uses it.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Julius » 02 Feb 2018, 19:32

Lyberta {l Wrote}:I honestly don't know. I host my stuff on GitLab and contribute to other projects on GitLab and GitHub. I think some developers tend not to like to create a separate account to report a minor bug. That's why GitHub became so popular - because everyone uses it.


Yeah, that and it's convenient to look/search in one place only.

However Gitea easily allows logging in with your Github account also (through Oauth2) and I could imagine that a small repository of only open-source game related stuff could be nice as well.
A bit like what Charlie referred to when he suggested a easy to search and update repository of open-source games was his long term vision for FGD... just with a bit of a more developer centric twist if it is in fact a git repository.

But since Gitea pretty much looks and works like Github, people should be able to adjust quickly (less so with gitlab) and you can also set up a non-code repository like an "awesome" list or so.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Magellan » 03 Feb 2018, 11:00

I would definitely use it! I would happily move my own small game projects over to a dedicated FOSS game repository, and would use it for future projects. I checked out the Gitea demo and it looks quite easy to use.

Julius {l Wrote}:However Gitea easily allows logging in with your Github account also (through Oauth2) and I could imagine that a small repository of only open-source game related stuff could be nice as well.


And this makes it even more attractive! :) All in all, I like this idea a lot.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby farrer » 03 Feb 2018, 11:50

Although I like the idea, the big problem here would be project's sizes... For example, the git repository for SuperTuxKart is ~250MB, even if their art repository is separated on a svn repository (with ~2GB). Some other projects (I'm guilty of this) use their git repository for media files too, being even more bigger (not the best practice, I agree, but it's a way of simplifying the work for keeping everything on one repository).

FGD server costs could increase quickly if the idea got any momentum... I don't have all "featured projects" checked out here to sum, but a good initial estimative would be to look how much storage space their repositories take...
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Julius » 03 Feb 2018, 13:42

Yeah, that is also a bit of my concern. Currently the server I could run this on has 40GB total SSD storage, of which not all would be available of course. And while the hoster seems quite generous in regards to traffic use, they will throttle speed when a very high bandwidth is used for longer than 15 minutes.
It is relatively easy to get additional slower storage with this webhost (for example 250GB with 2.5TB traffic for 5€/month), but I can't see myself getting into file hosting for many larger projects, as this also entails the risk of illegal files being hosted etc. For a few individual well managed projects this could of course be a different story.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Lyberta » 04 Feb 2018, 13:37

If HDD space is an issue then this makes the effort much less interesting.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Julius » 04 Feb 2018, 13:51

HDD space isn't the main issue (as I wrote it is not very expensive to get extra, and for a start the available 40GB will do I guess). The problem is rather that if we allow large file hosting people will start using it as their main distribution point which will quickly cause problems with server load & traffic limits as well as various maintenance issues (I would need to regularly check the repositories for what is hosted on them due to legal reasons).

These are not unsolvable issues of course, but it is a bit out of my league and interest to run as a hobby (which FGD is to me and the other admins here).

Maybe there is a way to link larger binary files to an external source within git, so that might be a solution.

But I also think that the code base for many projects really isn't that big if you store the art assets on a separate repository (which is technically preferable anyway). After all code is just text files, so I doubt most projects would run into space issues if they had lets say 30mb each? Not sure on that though...
Allowing a smaller volume quota per user makes a system much more manageable, as there is a implied barrier to hosting downloads for players from that service (or even automatic updating systems in the game) and the likeliness of illegal uploads is also much reduced as they tend to be larger in size.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Julius » 21 Feb 2018, 18:13

Test installation of Gitea:
https://git.freegamedev.net/

Feel free to play around with it, but please don't upload huge files. User accounts and repositories will be wiped after some testing!

Edit: hmm... anyone got a tip how to implement a disk quota in git? Gitea itself doesn't seem to have that function which would kinda prohibit public use :(
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Julius » 24 Feb 2018, 05:13

This is probably on hold until user disk quotas are implemented in Gitea or Gogs. Seems like it is on their roadmap though.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Julius » 05 Jun 2018, 15:08

Looking into this again given recent news...

Another option would be Phabricator: https://www.phacility.com/

Anyone got experience with that? I actually have a bit more storage space on my php only host, so this would allow slightly bigger repositories.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Wuzzy » 15 Jun 2018, 12:53

To all those who are using GitHub:

Please note this is (sadly) a proprietary platform which is unusable in various places without executing proprietary code (JavaScript).
It's a sick, sad irony that probably one of the biggest code hosting services for free software in the Internet is itself proprietary. GitHub has always been this way, long before Microsoft came.


So I think this project is a great idea, there are currently not that many options so far, so having some sort of “safe haven” is always good, even if it will be limited to smaller projects, it will still be a win.

Relevant read:
https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria.html

Apart from all the criteria in C, A+5 is very important to me, too. I have no idea why it comes so late in the list. It should always be possible to download/backup/export your metadata (i.e. bug lists, etc.). That way, you are much less dependent on one particular service.

If storage size or traffic are a problem, you should probably clarify upfront what the expected hard limits are.

I'm not a huge fan of Gitea's Interface that much, it's clear from the web demo that is's a VERY faithful GitHub clone (I didn't like GitHub). They even cloned the reactions. But it's more or less acceptable and more just my personal taste, definitely NOT a deal-breaker. Gitea looks a bit broken when you disable JavaScript. I don't like websites which fail (even just partially) when you disable JavaScript, to me this is just lazy coding. At least Gitea documents all JavaScript licenses, that's good and kills my main criticism of GitHub.
On the other hand, Gitea is having a very simple interface.

Anyway, setting personal taste aside, I am generally in full support of cloning well-known proprietary software/platforms (no matter how “shameless” they clone stuff) to make re-learning less painful for users. :)

In comparison, GitLab seems much more heavyweight. So if I had to choose between GitLab and Gitea, I would favor Gitea.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby gouessej » 19 Jun 2018, 23:20

Hey

Thank you for mentioning Gitea. Instead of creating another centralized repository, why not providing some tutorials to help other developers to host their projects on their own servers? If you stick with the idea of creating your git repository, please document the way you do it so that other developers can do the same.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby SecureUvula » 20 Jun 2018, 01:02

I'm running Gogs myself, but I'm behind Tor so other people would need to use Tor, or a proxy like onion.to to see my repos. If FGD had a central repo I would just use that as another push destination.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Julius » 15 Jul 2018, 00:55

gouessej {l Wrote}:Instead of creating another centralized repository, why not providing some tutorials to help other developers to host their projects on their own servers? If you stick with the idea of creating your git repository, please document the way you do it so that other developers can do the same.


The thing is... unless the current experiments to implement a federated issue tracking software go somewhere (see discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17288727 ), a somewhat centralized repository is much nicer from a user perspective as you can easily create issues, comment and submit patches without going though the hassle of creating yet another account and checking different platforms all the time. There is after all a reason Microsoft paid all that money for Github ;)

Gitea is really easy to set up, so I don't see how us writing another tutorial for it would help. It literally took me less than 10 minutes to get the instance mentioned above running (although I have to admit I already have a nice Docker based VPS set up).

Anyways... this is still in my plans and I would really like to offer some place for Github refugees, but without some sort of disk quota system it is quite a pain to run even a semi-public service. The relevant Github issue for it can be found here: https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/issues/3658

I also checked the other possible options, but Gitea is really the most convenient and lightweight. Gitlab CE is of course also nice (see for example https://framagit.org/ for a nice public instance), but the disk-quota feature is only part of their paid enterprise version.
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Re: POLL: Would a FGD git repository be of use for you?

Postby Julius » 04 Aug 2018, 18:14

Kind of a personal reminder, but maybe interesting to others:

Fossil SCM seems like an interesting lightweight alternative that can import from Git but includes issues tracking and a wiki etc:
https://www.fossil-scm.org/

There is also work being done to have a federalized issue tracking and merge-request system based on XMPP, see:
https://www.goffi.org/b/F4xScokjZejCYAB ... based-xmpp
(But IMHO a system based on ActivityPub might see broader adaption, see: https://github.com/forgefed/forgefed )
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