POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

What are your 3 most preferred chat systems that you would also like to use on FDG?

XMPP through external client
7
17%
XMPP through web-client (chat only)
3
7%
XMPP through advanced web-client (Movim)
1
2%
Matrix through external client
2
5%
Matrix with Riot.im web-client
5
12%
IRC through external client
7
17%
IRC through modern web-client
11
26%
Mattermost
1
2%
RocketChat
0
No votes
Zulip
0
No votes
Mumble Voice Chat
4
10%
Other (comment below)
1
2%
 
Total votes : 42

Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby Julius » 07 Aug 2019, 18:20

People either like Pidgin (=are used to it) or hate it. I personally have used it for quite some time back in the ICQ days, but regardless of that, PLEASE if you ever intend to use XMPP, don't use Pidgin. The XMPP support in Pidgin is like a decade behind of what other clients support, and it is holding back the entire XMPP federation :(
If you want something that is quite similar to Pidgin but actually supports XMPP, use Gajim... pleeeaaaase :)
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby fluffrabbit » 07 Aug 2019, 18:37

What about SIP? I want to hear your sweet voice.
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby Lyberta » 07 Aug 2019, 20:53

Julius {l Wrote}:People either like Pidgin (=are used to it) or hate it. I personally have used it for quite some time back in the ICQ days, but regardless of that, PLEASE if you ever intend to use XMPP, don't use Pidgin. The XMPP support in Pidgin is like a decade behind of what other clients support, and it is holding back the entire XMPP federation :(
If you want something that is quite similar to Pidgin but actually supports XMPP, use Gajim... pleeeaaaase :)


What features does Pidgin not have?
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby Julius » 07 Aug 2019, 21:46

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:What about SIP? I want to hear your sweet voice.


WebRTC is the current standard to aim for... but there are some SIP bridges for it I think.
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby Julius » 07 Aug 2019, 21:50

Lyberta {l Wrote}:
What features does Pidgin not have?


Nearly everything. People install Pidgin and think that XMPP hasn't evolved since 15 years. Modern multi device end 2 end encryption is also only semi supported through a 3rd party plugin that is hard to get to work.

A partially complete list of minimum standards for a modern XMPP client can be found here:
https://docs.modernxmpp.org/client/protocol/
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby Lyberta » 08 Aug 2019, 00:11

Julius {l Wrote}:Modern multi device end 2 end encryption is also only semi supported through a 3rd party plugin that is hard to get to work.


Uhh, I just have a separate account for every device, use OTR and don't keep any history. Seems to be the most secure way.
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby fluffrabbit » 08 Aug 2019, 01:01

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but WebRTC and WebSockets are lower-level protocols than SIP. You want a protocol that provides text and A/V chat in the spec. Right, or am I missing something? Also, what about infrastructure concerns with running videophone software on a low-powered IoT device? Wouldn't the web stuff incur a complexity and performance overhead before you even get to the level of a chat interface?
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby Julius » 08 Aug 2019, 17:22

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but WebRTC and WebSockets are lower-level protocols than SIP. You want a protocol that provides text and A/V chat in the spec. Right, or am I missing something? Also, what about infrastructure concerns with running videophone software on a low-powered IoT device? Wouldn't the web stuff incur a complexity and performance overhead before you even get to the level of a chat interface?

Yeah, not really something for dumb-phones. But there is cool stuff like this for interoperability of webRTC, SIP and even XMPP Jingle: https://github.com/AGProjects/sylkserver
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby fluffrabbit » 08 Aug 2019, 17:58

Not what I'm talking about. Case/point: What's your WebRTC number?
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby Julius » 08 Aug 2019, 19:59

ok I get your point now... but why have a dedicated SIP number when you can establish WebRTC based video/audio conferencing over more less what ever communication channel of your preference?

More on topic: came across this interesting IRC server https://github.com/oragono/oragono
If I would have been aware of it earlier, I might have stuck to the previous The Lounge IRC web client solution... hmm :-/
Edit: uhh, they are even working on IRC federation: https://github.com/oragono/oragono/issues/26 NICE :)


Edit: Split off topic discussion to here: https://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic ... 46&t=12204
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby Julius » 12 Aug 2019, 22:22

I am starting to get a bit annoyed by Mattermost's team edition (the open-source version) artificial limitations :eew:

And the above IRC option looks really tempting (especially also since integration with XMPP, Mumble & Bitlebee is much easier)... bridging to Freenode IRC and Discord will be unaffected of course (as Matterbridge is completely independent of Mattermost), but if this turns out of be suitable, I might disable Mattermost again in the medium term. Just to warn people to not get too attached to it ;)

I also like that with Oragono IRC we can make accounts optional and run The Lounge IRC web-client in public mode easily.
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby Julius » 19 Aug 2019, 18:55

Argg... ran into some trouble upgrading Mattermost to 5.14.0...on first glance seems complicated to fix and the damage is done so I can't go back to 5.13.2.
I hope I can figure it out, but for now it is down :(
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby Julius » 20 Aug 2019, 20:22

Mattermost should work again.
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Re: POLL: Which chat system would you like FGD to have?

Postby Julius » 26 Aug 2019, 13:26

Not sure if I mentioned this before, but beside Movim I am also looking into this as an option for the XMPP side of things:
https://salut-a-toi.org/
Feature wise quite interesting, but GUI isn't great (but works without JavaScript apparently) and Python might be too heavy for my puny server. Definilty waiting for the Python3 port...
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