Space Nerds In Space

Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 11 Feb 2019, 22:23

That being said, trying it out on a couple of the starbases that are already uv-unwrapped, the first one doesn't look too bad, but 2nd one doesn't really work as it needs a more radial design. That's a 4096x4096 normal map texture, which is quite big, but making it smaller... it doesn't look good smaller.

I think the starbases probably are good candidates for using normalmaps, because you do get quite close to them. For ships though, I think we probably don't really even need normal maps mostly, because mostly you're never near enough to be able to see them.

I might also want a way for different objects to share normal maps. Having a single 4096x4096 normalmap is tolerable. Having loads of such huge textures starts to not be a good idea.

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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 17 Feb 2019, 07:55

A bit of game play footage from earlier...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fFl0VH-4zA
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby Danimal » 17 Feb 2019, 12:19

Im happy my "greeble" link back at OGA helped you guys
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 17 Feb 2019, 15:13

Danimal {l Wrote}:Im happy my "greeble" link back at OGA helped you guys


Uh ... what greeble link?
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby MCMic » 18 Feb 2019, 13:12

smcameron {l Wrote}:
MCMic {l Wrote}:New question:
I got an old computer (Thinkpad X200) with Xubuntu 18.04 on it. The game builds fine but then gives a black screen instead of the window content.
I looked at the output and it says GLSL 1.30 is not supported by my computer.
I checked and it’s true, this hardware does not support OpenGL 3 and newer.
Is there any hope around this problem or is it impossible to render the game on such a computer?
(I used make update-assets, would it help if I use make models instead? To build the models on the same hardware?)


If you run snis_limited_client (menu item 5 in snis_launcher instead of 4), then you don't need opengl. However, you should probably only use COMMS, SCIENCE, ENGINEERING, and DAMAGE CONTROL, the other screens (NAV, WEAPONS, MAIN VIEW, DEMON) will probably not work very well (it won't hurt anything to try them, but you'll see that they don't work very well.)

If you notice a red FPS indicator appear in the upper left hand corner of the screen, it means things are running a little too slow (it shows up if things drop below 29 frames per second). I have seen it show up when using the limited client on the login screen, but once past that, ENG, SCI, DAMAGE CONTROL, and COMMS seemed to be ok.

I noticed the commit you did mentioning opengl 2 so I tried to build again on the same computer and it works :-)
It can now run snis_client.

Weapons and Main screen are laggy (is showed 25 FPS iirc), but I intend to use this computer for COMMS anyway.
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby MCMic » 18 Feb 2019, 13:14

Danimal {l Wrote}:Im happy my "greeble" link back at OGA helped you guys

I tried to answer you on OGA but the forum keeps giving me error 500 :-/
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 18 Feb 2019, 17:48

smcameron {l Wrote}:
Danimal {l Wrote}:Im happy my "greeble" link back at OGA helped you guys


Uh ... what greeble link?


*smcameron exercises google-fu*

Oh, I guess you must mean this: https://opengameart.org/forumtopic/need ... e-stations

Thanks for that. However, the greebles in the above images were made via https://github.com/smcameron/groovygreebler which I wrote the other day.
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 28 Apr 2019, 16:03

Just some video of cruising around, looking at stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OexArz3oNTk
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Edit 2019-07-12 add youtube thumbnail image link.
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 03 May 2019, 23:22

Added a new mission script, "El Cubo de la Muerte", run by typing "cubomuerte" on the demon screen.
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby MCMic » 11 May 2019, 23:36

Finally did a second session, the crew just left.

We were only 4 so it was a bit cahotic.

We first tried to win space pox as we had lost it due to a bug last time. But we never managed to get into the wormwhole with the vaccine. I really think this battle is too hard, I get that you are supposed to flee and not win it, but you should have a bit more time to flee. I think the wombat should be stronger actually.

Then we played royal wedding, I tried to intervene as less as possible as I knew the script. We failed the battle 2 or 3 times, then I edited the script to reduce missile chance to 1 (from 5) and we managed to win the battle and then the mission, with the good ending. This really would’ve worked better with a dedicated communications officer.
We had two bugs, a lua problem which caused the prince panic not to happen, and we still had the prince on board after the end of the mission.

I was not sure if cubomuerte was playable/stable yet so we did not try it.
We tried Demolisher to see the big ship, but we did not understand what we were supposed to do, we went inside the ship and out, and then died at some point. The TTS was going through all computers at the same time, on some of them with espeak and others with the other tech, so it was impossible to understand and the text is not written anywhere.
I still do not understand how to set up TTS, first time I only checked TTS checkbox on server and it caused problems with the computer, this time I checked TTS on all stations but we get this kind of problems.

We also had a crash.
I’m going to open issues on the tracker now.

Oh, and one station was a Mac Book Air and it does work starting my snislive USB key on it. But you need a dongle to get ethernet, and you have no USB port left for a mouse. (unless you have a thunderbolt dongle for the ethernet)
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 12 May 2019, 03:29

MCMic {l Wrote}:Finally did a second session, the crew just left.

Thanks for giving it a try... for a minute I thought that by, "the crew just left", that they were so disappointed by the game that they walked out, but I think you only mean that they recently left just before you wrote this, ha.
We were only 4 so it was a bit cahotic.

We first tried to win space pox as we had lost it due to a bug last time. But we never managed to get into the wormwhole with the vaccine. I really think this battle is too hard, I get that you are supposed to flee and not win it, but you should have a bit more time to flee. I think the wombat should be stronger actually.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll try making some adjustments. I believe I wrote this script before missiles existed, and so it probably doesn't turn them off, so they are probably a lot stronger now since missiles appeared than they were when I originally wrote this script. I should fix that.

Then we played royal wedding, I tried to intervene as less as possible as I knew the script. We failed the battle 2 or 3 times, then I edited the script to reduce missile chance to 1 (from 5) and we managed to win the battle and then the mission, with the good ending. This really would’ve worked better with a dedicated communications officer.
We had two bugs, a lua problem which caused the prince panic not to happen, and we still had the prince on board after the end of the mission.

I noticed your bug report on that. I don't have a clear idea what might be going wrong, the script *looks* correct to me. I'll have to try to duplicate the problem.

I was not sure if cubomuerte was playable/stable yet so we did not try it.
We tried Demolisher to see the big ship, but we did not understand what we were supposed to do, we went inside the ship and out, and then died at some point. The TTS was going through all computers at the same time, on some of them with espeak and others with the other tech, so it was impossible to understand and the text is not written anywhere.
I still do not understand how to set up TTS, first time I only checked TTS checkbox on server and it caused problems with the computer, this time I checked TTS on all stations but we get this kind of problems.

Hmm, probably best to have text to speech on only one computer (TTS server checked on login page) with pico2wav rather than espeak. I agree that having only the speech is not good. The Demolisher script isn't really finished. (Spoiler: My idea was that the way to destroy it is to overheat the warp core and eject it inside the Demolisher.) But I didn't get around to writing some sort of hints to let the players know that this is what they are supposed to do, nor to writing the code that makes such a thing work.

Cubomuerte should be playable (although the audio recordings it uses are of questionable quality) -- I had to manually ride the volume control on the stereo when we played it to make it audible in some parts, and to tame the quindar tones[1] that were unreasonably loud. Also, if you lose cubomuerte, it's not very obvious what has happened. I need to work on that. And how you "trigger the device" is kind of lame, and should probably be re-written.
We also had a crash.
I’m going to open issues on the tracker now.

Thanks. I gather the crash was on SCIENCE. I think I have seen that one time in the last 2 months, but I don't know what it is. I have a hunch it's something to do with o->entity being NULL, or the mesh associated with o->entity being NULL, but I'm not sure. I changed science to make it clearer when nothing is selected, which can happen if science range is reduced, or the selected item goes out of range, or if range is reduced due to lack of sensor power. There might be other reasons as well, but at least now it should be a lot more obvious when nothing is selected. This change *might* also reduce the chance of a crash, but not really knowing yet what was causing the crash, it also might not.
Oh, and one station was a Mac Book Air and it does work starting my snislive USB key on it. But you need a dongle to get ethernet, and you have no USB port left for a mouse. (unless you have a thunderbolt dongle for the ethernet)


Hmm, that is unfortunate hardware design. I believe the limited client can be compiled on the Mac and will run natively on the Mac, but is only good for engineering, damage control, comms, and *maybe* science.

[1] Quindar tones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quindar_tones
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby MCMic » 12 May 2019, 11:57

smcameron {l Wrote}:
MCMic {l Wrote}:Finally did a second session, the crew just left.

Thanks for giving it a try... for a minute I thought that by, "the crew just left", that they were so disappointed by the game that they walked out, but I think you only mean that they recently left just before you wrote this, ha.

Yeah it was the latter, sorry for the confusion ^^

Thanks for the feedback. I'll try making some adjustments. I believe I wrote this script before missiles existed, and so it probably doesn't turn them off, so they are probably a lot stronger now since missiles appeared than they were when I originally wrote this script. I should fix that.

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, lots of missiles impacted us.

I noticed your bug report on that. I don't have a clear idea what might be going wrong, the script *looks* correct to me. I'll have to try to duplicate the problem.

I’ll try as well to see if the bug triggers if I start the prince panic at script startup.
It may be some weird stuff related to playing the same mission twice in a row, I’m not sure if there are some leftover from one run to the next.

Hmm, probably best to have text to speech on only one computer (TTS server checked on login page) with pico2wav rather than espeak.

If we do that then the computer does not answer requests which does not come from the computer with TTS if I recall correctly.

I agree that having only the speech is not good. The Demolisher script isn't really finished. (Spoiler: My idea was that the way to destroy it is to overheat the warp core and eject it inside the Demolisher.) But I didn't get around to writing some sort of hints to let the players know that this is what they are supposed to do, nor to writing the code that makes such a thing work.

It may be good to state in the mission begin text that the mission is in alpha-testing state then.

Cubomuerte should be playable (although the audio recordings it uses are of questionable quality) -- I had to manually ride the volume control on the stereo when we played it to make it audible in some parts, and to tame the quindar tones[1] that were unreasonably loud. Also, if you lose cubomuerte, it's not very obvious what has happened. I need to work on that. And how you "trigger the device" is kind of lame, and should probably be re-written.

We may try it next time then. But on my current setup changing volume while playing is not practical.

Hmm, that is unfortunate hardware design. I believe the limited client can be compiled on the Mac and will run natively on the Mac, but is only good for engineering, damage control, comms, and *maybe* science.

Yeah but booting the USB key is easier :-)
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 30 May 2019, 13:03

I realized that I never mentioned here that I have created some documentation about the codebase for Space Nerds in Space. It's not 100% complete (probably never will be) and there are still some big holes (I didn't do very much in the way of documenting the renderer guts for example) but it's better than nothing.

* Hacking on Space Nerds in Space
* The HTML source for this document is in the github repo.

It's a reasonable place to start for anyone who might be interesting in tinkering with the game or just wondering how it works.

Feel free to send patches to this document if you find mistakes or something that could be clearer (or just open an issue if something is bugging you about it and you want me to fix it.)
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 15 Jul 2019, 01:17

For the benefit of some star wars LARPers, you can now choose an alien font by typing "set current_typeface=1" on the demon screen. You can select the default ASCII font via "set current_typeface=0".

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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby fluffrabbit » 15 Jul 2019, 02:58

Why does the technologically advanced Galactic Republic/Galactic Empire/Naboo civilization use primitive neolithic glyphs? If you look at early writing systems, this is pretty much it, except of course for the Arabic numerals. This is monkey script.
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 15 Jul 2019, 05:05

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:Why does the technologically advanced Galactic Republic/Galactic Empire/Naboo civilization use primitive neolithic glyphs? If you look at early writing systems, this is pretty much it, except of course for the Arabic numerals. This is monkey script.


Heh. Stop digging. The deeper you dig, the less sense it makes. Also, I "fixed" the Arabic numerals.

I also kind of like that I rabidly enforce locale=C, but yet support this insanity.
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby fluffrabbit » 15 Jul 2019, 08:26

I don't locales.

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
stroke_t


I'd say you make a lot of crazy design decisions. I thought you were just rendering a font, but you're actually tracing the glyphs. o.O
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby e4mafia » 25 Jul 2019, 13:40

Hey btaggart

Did you ever validate your Mac build instructions? Would be very grateful if you could share.
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 27 Jul 2019, 19:33

e4mafia {l Wrote}:Hey btaggart

Did you ever validate your Mac build instructions? Would be very grateful if you could share.


Hi, I'm not btaggart, but the last time I helped someone get SNIS (sort of) running on Mac was in February of 2019. We couldn't get any of the opengl stuff to compile. This may have been due to a newer Mac without opengl support? Looking back, he was running "Mac OS mojave" (that's what he called it... I don't really know much about macs). I believe it has worked in the past (many years ago though) but I don't think it works with recent macs because of opengl. I think we were able to get the limited client to run though (since it doesn't use opengl). The limited client is well, limited in that it does not really work well with all the stations, only engineering, damage control, comms, and *maybe* science. It will try to do the others if you choose to try them, but performance and aesthetics will suffer greatly.

There were some issues we encountered (and resolved some) back then, at least one related to Mac, around crypt_r(), which I think I was able to work around. https://github.com/smcameron/space-nerd ... issues/197

Let me know if you figure out anything interesting.
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby fluffrabbit » 27 Jul 2019, 19:37

AFAIK OpenGL is deprecated but not removed entirely as that would break everything. There is a concept of "modern OpenGL" which Apple helped popularize, wherein you don't use any extensions and stick to a recent "core profile", most commonly OpenGL 3.3.
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 27 Jul 2019, 19:42

fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:AFAIK OpenGL is deprecated but not removed entirely as that would break everything. There is a concept of "modern OpenGL" which Apple helped popularize, wherein you don't use any extensions and stick to a recent "core profile", most commonly OpenGL 3.3.


Yeah, but we couldn't figure out how to *compile* opengl code on mojave, couldn't find the header files anywhere, I think. That is, you might well be able to run opengl code, but can you *develop* opengl code on mojave? Maybe if you compiled on an older mac, and moved the binary over? OTOH, I'm very far from knowledgeable about Macs, so, there might be a way to get it to work.
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby fluffrabbit » 27 Jul 2019, 19:53

smcameron {l Wrote}:
fluffrabbit {l Wrote}:AFAIK OpenGL is deprecated but not removed entirely as that would break everything. There is a concept of "modern OpenGL" which Apple helped popularize, wherein you don't use any extensions and stick to a recent "core profile", most commonly OpenGL 3.3.


Yeah, but we couldn't figure out how to *compile* opengl code on mojave, couldn't find the header files anywhere, I think. That is, you might well be able to run opengl code, but can you *develop* opengl code on mojave? Maybe if you compiled on an older mac, and moved the binary over? OTOH, I'm very far from knowledgeable about Macs, so, there might be a way to get it to work.


Don't rely on the system OpenGL headers. Use Glad 2.
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby smcameron » 27 Jul 2019, 19:55

Thanks, we definitely would not have known to look for this. I will forward this to the guy I was trying to help back in Feb. Maybe he'll make some progress. I suspect that this may cause further difficulties.
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
#include <gtk/gtkgl.h>
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby fluffrabbit » 27 Jul 2019, 19:59

smcameron {l Wrote}:Thanks, we definitely would not have known to look for this. I will forward this to the guy I was trying to help back in Feb. Maybe he'll make some progress. I suspect that this may cause further difficulties.
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
#include <gtk/gtkgl.h>

GTK on a Mac? Yeah, I don't think so. :lol:
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Re: Space Nerds In Space

Postby e4mafia » 27 Jul 2019, 23:19

What’s weird is that I can’t get the helm/Mac station to work in an Ubuntu vm under parallels on it either.
Time to dust off a non Mac x86 laptop I guess.
Are there know issues on latest Ubuntu that could be the cause? No control at all on Mac. Station doesn’t respond to direction input. Mouse works for doing warps though so I know it’s not hung.
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