The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby Lyberta » 07 Apr 2020, 01:44

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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 24 Sep 2021, 15:49

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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 28 Sep 2021, 11:30

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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 01 Oct 2021, 11:20

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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby bzt » 01 Oct 2021, 20:27

jdc {l Wrote}:Count chars and lines from a file
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
int count_chars_lines (FILE *f, int *nl, int *rc )
{
int rc = 0;
int rl = 0;
while((get(f)) != EOF ){

if (c== '\n'){
rc++;
}

}
*nl = rl;
*nc = rc;
}
was debating a bit on global's.
FYI, there are no global variables in the above code snippet at all. It's like debating whether "The King of USA has a hat or not".

jdc {l Wrote}:but what it seems is that global's in C are the pointers
No, they are not. I have absolutely no idea where you get that from.
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
int hi_I_am_a_global_variable_but_not_a_pointer;
int *hi_I_am_a_global_pointer;

int main(void) {
   int hi_I_am_neither_global_nor_pointer;
   int *hi_I_am_not_a_global_pointer_by_no_means;
}
I have hard time believing you understand the concept of visibility scope. It has nothing to do with pointers nor with the pointed address.

Unlike other programming languages, C does not force any data model on the variables (like typically all OOP and scripting languages) nor on references (like passed by ref / value), with one notable exception, strings must be zero terminated. But save that, C's approach is the other way around: it does not mandate how variables are stored in memory, rather it provides different ways to describe the memory. That's why C is so good for low-level, embedded and system programming.

Cheers,
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 06 Oct 2021, 12:20

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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby bzt » 06 Oct 2021, 16:02

Forgive me, but I still don't have no clue what on earth you're talking about, although I have several decades of experience in programming as well as in project management. It looks to me you're just throwing in completely random stuff without comprehension or cohesion.

My advice is, first learn the basics, what is for what and how to use them. Write many little programs to learn the language, to learn how to use specific libraries, create PoCs for DB handling etc. before you want to start a project like this. This way you'll realize yourself why so many things are wrong with your current specs.

Also work on your project management skills, first try to coordinate simple projects with a small team, that's still isn't trivial. Right now your posts make no sense, you're jumping between incorrect low-level specs and inconsistent high-level specs, furthermore without any obvious relation between the two.

Honestly, given its current state, I don't think anybody will want to work on this (please don't feel offended, I'm writing this as an advice).

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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 12 Oct 2021, 12:22

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st_variables.c
(140 Bytes) Downloaded 83 times
ut_general_manipulation.c
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interface.C
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 12 Oct 2021, 12:37

C group

Adding a group to Facebook help and debate C and work width the library’s from the Box. If I have time will add it lather also do discord.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2222886 ... &ref=notif
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 21 Oct 2021, 11:42

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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 08 Nov 2021, 15:52

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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 04 Jun 2022, 07:54

Hi

Finally found a library that is simple, it have tutorials and is recently updated. The only draw back is that only works on Linux but is a minor issue since lather we can extend it to work on windows.

It works 100% width procedural code, so that is another think in favor, people looking to enter in to C, and have the same problem as me. Like it takes to long to start from scrach is not PHP. And large library's will be a bit hard to module since they already have to many dependency's as people also argue in other forum post.

Software done width this library we have VIM a famous text editor for Linux which people use for ages. The library was update in 2020 so think width all this in favors people might like it.

We can see in the tutorial the code working width getchar() a basic function on C.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV-OPQhPvSM

Snake game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH6QlYJ ... dex=1&t=0s

Old manual

https://tldp.org/HOWTO/NCURSES-Programm ... index.html

New version + manual

https://invisible-island.net/ncurses/an ... 2-overview
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby bzt » 04 Jun 2022, 08:50

I'm sorry, but you make less and less sense to me. You do know that ncurses is just a terminal abstraction layer right? All it does, it adds OS-specific escape codes to the output stream to make the text colorful and positioned. It is definitely not a game library.

jdc {l Wrote}: people looking to enter in to C, and have the same problem as me
I've told you, your problem is that you want it all at once. Learning programming requires patience, you have to do small steps, and only one step at a time. No library can magically replace your lack of knowledge and experience, you have to build that up on your own, little by little.

Cheers,
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 04 Jun 2022, 10:22

BZk which time you talk, you talk as you are a expert on which library. Think i read in one of your posts "pretty hard to do that" (close to unhuman that kind of behavior)

First library's are extensible; html is not for games but you can do them in html.

2º best to learn is from code and manual. Can't just learn from manual or just code.

3º no one talked about games, is a tool software. it says in topic development tool

4º "you do not make sense to me" who care about your opinion?

5º C is modular and cross platform; Much more then C++ the more rules you create the less modular it becomes (restrictive).

6º In C you can work width all kind of library's if next we want to add graphics from graphics library we can add them (graphics.h) (not easy but can be done).

7º we have access to the source code we can do whatever we want is not a frame work.

8º stop bugging people width your opinion?

9º want to help? go on and learn ncurses very stable project. read the posts comments on Youtube every one say that...

10º Unity projects are not 100% a topic for this forums, since you can't access the source code of the engine.

and so on...
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby bzt » 04 Jun 2022, 12:16

Ok, my last post to you.

jdc {l Wrote}:BZk which time you talk, you talk as you are a expert on which library.
I'm bzt, and yes, that's correct I'm an expert. I have more than 30 years of programming experience, not just in C but in many other languages as well (compiled and interpreted alike). And I'm not only expert on most of the commonly used C libraries, but I have even written lots of libraries myself.

jdc {l Wrote}:First library's are extensible; html is not for games but you can do them in html.
Html is not a library, and you cannot do games in pure html. You would need some code to do the logic and interactions, either Javascript on the client side or something else on the server side. Html alone can't do that.

jdc {l Wrote}:2º best to learn is from code and manual. Can't just learn from manual or just code.
Yes, you can. I've learned programming behind the iron curtain where source code and manuals were literally non-existent. Everything we knew we've learned from studying the disassembly and doing reverse-engineering. Simply there was nothing else to study from back then.

jdc {l Wrote}:3º no one talked about games, is a tool software. it says in topic development tool
Ncurses is neither a tool software, nor a development tool.

jdc {l Wrote}:4º "you do not make sense to me" who care about your opinion?
Why are you posting here if you're not interested in people's responses?

jdc {l Wrote}:5º C is modular and cross platform; Much more then C++ the more rules you create the less modular it becomes (restrictive).
That's true.

jdc {l Wrote}:6º In C you can work width all kind of library's if next we want to add graphics from graphics library we can add them (graphics.h) (not easy but can be done).
See? This is not how you do graphics at all. Take a look at one of my simple C projects, xstoneage to see how to add X11 graphics to a C code. Hint: there's no graphics.h, and knowing how to invoke X11 functions syntactically isn't enough by far. You have to understand the semantics too.

jdc {l Wrote}:7º we have access to the source code we can do whatever we want is not a frame work.
I have hard time interpreting this. I wonder if you can do whatever you want with xstoneage for example, provided its code is Free and Open Source.

jdc {l Wrote}:8º stop bugging people width your opinion?
Start listening to C expert's advice.

jdc {l Wrote}:9º want to help? go on and learn ncurses very stable project. read the posts comments on Youtube every one say that...
Why would I learn ncurses when I already know it, have used it, what's more, I'm in a position that I could actually write ncurses?

jdc {l Wrote}:10º Unity projects are not 100% a topic for this forums, since you can't access the source code of the engine.
Again, what has this to do with anything? Are unity projects development tools too? (sarcasm, only a rhetorical question)

I repeat my advice once more, you should stop looking for libraries and start learning first, because you lack understanding of the fundamentals. I won't bug you any more.

Cheers,
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 25 Jun 2022, 04:25

3D graphics Bzt? You write;

"I'm sorry, but you make less and less sense to me. You do know that ncurses is just a terminal abstraction layer right? All it does, it adds OS-specific escape codes to the output stream to make the text colorful and positioned. It is definitely not a game library."

Actually it does not do that, i was watching the tutorials and the guy explain it : "it moves the courser of the mouse to any position on the screen or in console backward and forward" it is all that it does. While normal console only goes in strait line is much more advanced then the normal console. "Escape codes are not mention" only the mouse courser thus the name "N curses" which translates to Variable mouse cursor or manipulated mouse cursor.

"Operating system escapes", actually not again, since Ncurses is Linux specific, to work in windows you need more code, is not cross platform. It is not in any way related to general operating systems... (but to know more on this you probably need more tutorials)

This guy writes a 3D library introduction think it will be great for people starting. The code is in C++ wdith ncurses in C, but he says we can easily translate from C++ code to C. Since you have the code + the tutorial think will be nice.


The end result We have a basic 3D shape working. You probably need more tutorials since he only touch the topics light, assumes you know this things.

3D Engine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJVfh8K-0wY

can check last part working : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iNawdvmHRc

There are also video tutorials for Ncuses library did not post on previous post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV-OPQh ... MuYlyxQl4v
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 26 Jun 2022, 12:46

News

Sorry for the delay on news but think any one can understand the current world events. For a long time i was not able to work on the project now grabbing the design again, and correction some contradictions which i already See in some of the posts.

Forum posts is becoming a big havoc, since we can't delete post, stuff become outdated, admins should check that out...

So the news :

Think i will also published The BOX web PHP which i should have done from the beginning; people where reading posts from the the ting and was not online. We can now read and test it out. Was reading forum game dev posts and see people struggling width PHP so i thought that i should have posted that more earlier it may help some which are starting.

Think i will open repository's on other languages.

Lyberta mention C++ and Rust as better options, they might be. But we can do all kind of versions, no need to keep width only one version, to help people working by them self's. Knowledge take time to acquire. If you have that knowledge for that's nice.

One think, just don't go and make your own repository we all know how will end like Linux : 1000 distro's all working on the same things : environment software, install tools, etc... big wast of work we only need 1 or 2 good tools or distro's.

So we can have like this in Git HUb:

The Box - C++
" - Rust
" - Python
" - C
" . Lua
! - PHP (This one is a bit different since it was another project, need to updated in it own purpose.)

Lyberta say he was going to quiet open source, if any one have is contact tell we can start to do it in C++ also. For what i read C++ have the code all properly organized, the down side I mention in other posts, is nested stuff we will not get that much performance as in C. But the bad part of C is require a lot of knowledge, so he kind in a non evolving much situation +-.

If you need any repository in other languages just say, not going to open them in advanced since people may change their mind since things have taken so much time to be updated.


Now we are going to see the new design:

I was graduated in Multimedia but my curse didn't mention well on the Design so i was struggling a bit; assumed the information they passed me was correct or enough. Found a book and i buy it's on design and explain essential principles which we need to do the design at a minimal level. Do and do it width out many afford. The design Is Now evolving pretty fast, no longer wasting many time in the design details...

Lets say you open a repository for your favorite language and where do you start? (Finished the design on the project.txt mapping file which hopefully be kind of standard for open source projects.)

You can start by create the project tool, to create and edit the file. How does it work? It map all things inside our project, it's like a Make file used in compiling but in here instead is used for the project.

Not covering all; you can see it in the image, but for example : project online is just a matter to edit the file and put it online. Fix a broken div or partition of the interface; if it is register in the file project and some one inside the code delete by mistake it will enforce a left panel for links for example and so on...

Will see lather what can update, is a lot of work as you can imagine...
Attachments
project.jpg
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 28 Jun 2022, 14:54

Moved all posts in to a blog. Leave only the new stuff to prevent people from losing track.


In her for next post will be only version posts. Bit hard to administrate in here, if you like to read development post can follow in there.

Also front page of this forum is updated width the links a bit more easy to access information if need any links will be in there. Also add a account for Flattr for any donations...

[url]
https://thebox0.blogspot.com/[/url]
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby Technopeasant » 12 Jul 2022, 03:26

bzt {l Wrote}:Html is not a library, and you cannot do games in pure html. You would need some code to do the logic and interactions, either Javascript on the client side or something else on the server side. Html alone can't do that.


Well, actually...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext_fiction

And even...

https://libregamewiki.org/The_night_wol ... of_Venzone
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby bzt » 12 Jul 2022, 08:29

Technopeasant {l Wrote}:
bzt {l Wrote}:Html is not a library, and you cannot do games in pure html. You would need some code to do the logic and interactions, either Javascript on the client side or something else on the server side. Html alone can't do that.


Well, actually...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext_fiction

And even...

https://libregamewiki.org/The_night_wol ... of_Venzone
Both of these rely on a server side logic as I've said. Actually implemented by the webserver's URL routing. (Or if you download the files locally, then on your OS's path resolution and filename lookup).

And I would also argue if some hyperlinks alone without any game state is actually can be considered a real game (how could it be a game without any game state?). You probably don't know, but in the '80s to the early '00s there were a lot of interactive game books, very very very similar to what you have linked (for a list). But there was a big difference: all of these books expected the reader to throw a dice sometimes and, more importantly keep the game state updated on a paper, and that's addition what made those a real game and more than some books with non-linear chapters.

Cheers,
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby PeterX » 12 Jul 2022, 08:36

Why should "The night wolves..." and similar sites not count as games? They don't have an official data state but nontheless they are games.

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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby bzt » 12 Jul 2022, 12:13

PeterX {l Wrote}:Why should "The night wolves..." and similar sites not count as games? They don't have an official data state but nontheless they are games.
Because without a game state and game logic, then they can't be called games, simple as that. They are nothing more than interactive books, which, don't get me wrong, can be fun on its own right, no doubt about that. Just not games per definiton. Same goes to other genre too, for example is Bandersnatch fun? You bet it is! But can you call that interactive movie a real game?

How to explain this... if all choices are fixed and predetermined, then the world is static, it doesn't matter what the player do, there will always be the same choices and with the same outcome. On the other hand, in a real game one would expect that the world isn't static, that the choices are different depending how the player progresses (which assumes there's some kind of game state storing the current progress).

For example, in an interactive book there can be no fighting the monsters, because nothing stores the player's HP and what weapon they have. But this is true to all kind of games, no matter how that choices are technically implemented and what the "state" actually means. I could even mention table-top board games or card games too, their "world" isn't static either, there's always some kind of state showing who's winning or loosing and what possible moves each player have. Even simple single player games, like Solitaire offers different options to the player depending what cards are on the table.

These are just some stupid examples, but does the lack of game state and logic make sense to you? But again, I'm not saying that interactive books cannot be fun! They surely can be! (And just for the records, it is possible to create an interactive book with so many pages that it would create the illusion of having a game state, just most interactive books don't have that many because one page for all possible combination means astronomical number of total pages.)

@jdc: I apologize we've derailed your topic a little bit. I won't post about games in this topic any more, you can keep posting about box.

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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc » 08 Aug 2022, 11:04

Think you people will go crazy width this next stuff that i come up:

The structure working!!!

Let's start....

The structure will work as a operating system. Will add stuff in to the structure and remove it . "Think we are only a couple of months away of every one is capable of programing a A title. why the triple A in US the max is not A? Should be a A title or Ace.

A off topic : why Liberta leave the community the guy was so chear full on people projects... And make very deep posts on game stuff...

We will have 2 methods, Build (named to not repeat any stuff) and Deconstruct. In the example we are going to see a simple method to build a math.h library in to the install list, and a over view of the installed things. also the deconstruct to uninstall the library. This is under develop things may change but think you get the point how we can do all this stuff width just command width out using any graphical environment.

The possibility's to the Build & Deconstruct methods and very large. In here i'm just touching the surface.

My seem a bit redundant but maybe you are not seeing the possibility's. Less people programming, accessing others build methods, find faster the dependency's and errors, manipulate the project without touching the code, etc...

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

int build_math_lib ()
{
   
   structure_includes_amount++;
    structure_abbreviation = "LIB";
   structure_name = "math";
   structure_includes = "#include <math.h>";
     structure_dependency's = {"exp", "double tanh"...};
   structure_files = {"simulator", "RTS"};
   
   return 1;
}

int deconstruct_math_lib()
{
   structure_includes_amount--;
   structure_name = "math.h build in";
   structure_includes = "#include <math.h>";
   structure_dependency's = {"exp", "double tanh"};
   structure_files = {"simulator", "RTS"};

        return 1;
}



Structure over view :

Example of a structure list

Structure

name : The Box
includes : 100
files : 500
functions : 300
variables : 1000
dependency's : 2000

Installed :

lib math (battle_simulator, main, calculator)
lib string ()
lib limiths
lib stdio
lib stdlib
lib time
lib standard_variables
lib standard_variables_game
lib standard_functions
lib standard_functions_game
script player_move
window 3D enviorment
sound wave
sound ogg
img JPG Compress
img JPG
img PNG
OS Linux bindings
OS Windows bindings
OS bindings
DB mysql
DB mongo
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Re: The Box, development tool, "Structural programming"

Postby jdc2 » 03 Sep 2022, 14:59

The Box Script

*I was not able to login in to my email so i did another account for now,

Don't know if this post is a bit complex to make, this things are almost for a manual... but we will see... is a alternative to web scripting, see if i will end updating it to programming...

It's 2 or 3 times more modular then the web stuff we have today. Is not actually a script but just rules, we load it to C and he creates the things for us. Is mainly to create a graphic environment.

1 - we can work in any amount of projects in the same file (project=the box)
2 - it does not uses extensions they are declared (image_extension=jpg,png)
3- reuses code parts (line_id)
4- it have security enable checks (security=ask)
5- load text from files in to it (element=10)
6- the end of line is at the begging and not in the end bullets like style ( tbs -> )
7- in theory could support other languages but i don't know if it will happen (css, html, js, php, C# ->)
8- tags stack (id=sub_menu, id=main, level=2, block=list, text_id=text)
9 - it have levels (level=2)
10 - at the bottom you can see other language code how is incredible they are much more complex...
11 - Loading order is organized by order tag "order=1, order=2", to arrange thing for us. (is decimal in case we need to re- organize 1,2 ... 1,7 without the need to change others)

basically one while loop organize the rules and the 2º loop construct it is very simple. Think in putting it to work in just a html server it just need text to work...

while(1) // organize
{
project the box
order =
level =
line_id =
id =
blocks=
text=

project Medivel titans
order =
level =
line_id =
...

Project Eva project
order =
level =
line_id =
...

}

while(1) // assemble
{
the box
load images
load windows
load text
load models
load templates
load modules
...
}

What is happening in the examples:

- we are reusing a login/register throw 3 projects, the_box,eva project, medivel titansl.
- we doing auto querys to the db
- We have web script width real time security
- Call on effects functions
- we have losse programming if you want to add something at the begging to the box project, and lather call the other two projects, you can re assign the box project again in a 2º time and continue to do things.
- we don't have large amount of text in the file is coming from other files throw element= tag, we can have titles, sub titles names, etc... any text... but if not needed is not inside. Make the file really small.
- define in the script amount of pages or item per page
- tags for other languages : C#->, PHP -> normal or composed, C#, PHP, TBS -> a line that support multi programming languages, (could generate more errors)

*some things still need more work like how templates, modules inter act and programing at this stage did only most web things.

The rest you can see for your self...

Ex:

tbs -> project=the box
tbs -> current_page=boot
tbs -> version=1.x
tbs -> img=logo order=1
tbs -> project_folder = applications/pages/the box
tbs -> assoc_keys=
tbs -> file_link=articles
tbs -> image_folder=
tbs -> icon_folder=
tbs -> image_extension=jpg,png
tbs -> torrent=8A5148D6306606F5250F8E14AC7657FC9012A520
tbs -> tile=the box
tbs -> id=main, items_pages=10
tbs -> autor = jdc
tbs -> email = eva.project.dev@gmail.com plex
tbs -> link = https://thebox0.blogspot.com/?zx=8aeda2665c691d35
tbs -> db=users, db=articles, db_query=all store=db_articles
tbs -> link_file=icons store=icons elements=all
tbs -> allow_commads(), effects
tbs -> id=all, space: m 10, p 20, text_translate(),
tbs -> id=main, type=box, level=1, text_id=text1
tbs -> id=sub_menu, id=main, level=2, block=list, text_id=text
tbs -> id=right_menu, id=main, level=2, block=list, text_id=text
tbs -> id=links
tbs -> id=effect_hover, block=effect, level=3, script=hover_effect
tbs -> id=sub_menu, text_replace(), text_translate(),
tbs -> id=login_menu, user_login(), user_register()
tbs -> page=login, page=register, page=main, level=2
tbs -> page=boot, level=1
tbs -> open_file(), security=ask
tbs -> array security=
tbs -> url= redirect=no security=1
tbs -> text= the box , order=1, text= software development tool order=2
tbs -> id=main text= web site dedicated to make posts on the software
tbs -> line_id=1 list=Link1, Link2, Link3

tbs -> file_link=articles element=10

tbs -> order=5 display=list title= Downloads, Media Fire text =

Preferring "Media fire" over other projects, like Github you have to upload file 1 by 1 which is very pre history for computares and software capability today. Another issue you can't have empty folders or move large amount of files in your project, you have to move them 1 by one. Can't delete folders, you have to remove files for it to disappear. And you guessing how you remove files for it to disappear? Maybe you guesses correctly again you have to remove files 1 by 1. Insane work! It is not possible to administrate a large project like this moving files 1 by 1. There is a lot of editing to be done.

Why not use the tool for the page? They maybe attempt to attack again : why use this wired tool when you have FTP's services for like dozens of years. In computeres that's a lot. Like from the 1920's or so we have FTPS services.


tbs -> line_id=1

tbs -> order=5 display=list title= Downloads, Media Fire file_link=articles element=2

img=project_tool

tbs -> project = tides of time

tbs -> title=tides of time

tbs -> button= login, register

tbs -> password, re-password, user name, translation=all

tbs -> icons=gold,food,

tbs -> links= Characters, Attack, exception= on page-tides of time remove=characters, attack

tbs -> clock=4m

tbs -> project=medivel titans

-> line_id=1 (links)

tbs -> project=eva project

-> line_id=1 (links)

-> structure= math lib
-> structure= standard variables

-> module= player

-> module= map

-> script = attack if=range<200

-> template=a1

-> JS-> snyppet = javascript

-> map=level1

->graphics=opengl 2.0


php, C#, Css, HTML, Js ->


------------------------------

css -> p {margin-top: 100px; margin-bottom: 100px;}
html -> <div id="main"><ul><li> a </li><li> b </li><li> c </li><li> d </li></ul></div>
js -> let x = "Volvo" + 16 + 4;
php -> echo strlen("Hello world!");
C# -> using System;

namespace HelloWorld
{
class Program
{
static void Main(string[] args)
{
Console.WriteLine("Hello World!");
}
}
}
Java ->

public static void main(String[] args) {
Main myObj = new Main(); // Create an object of class Main (This will call the constructor)
System.out.println(myObj.x); // Print the value of x
}


$(document).ready(function(){
$("p").click(function(){
$(this).hide();
});
});
jdc2
 
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Joined: 03 Sep 2022, 14:36

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