YouTube channel

YouTube channel

Postby Lyberta » 21 May 2016, 08:57

So I'm a big fan of Jim Sterling, however, he doesn't play FLOSS games. In fact, barely anyone is making videos of FLOSS games. I'm thinking of filling the void. My current plan is to starts with Let's Plays.

Thoughts?
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby Akien » 21 May 2016, 09:38

That would be cool!

Iwan runs the GamesOpenSource channel, but he tends IMO to make too many videos about small demos or WIPs from the Löve2D forums or BGE, and at some time he posted way too many videos every day for the channel to be meaningful as a showcase of FLOSS games.

So if you would go for something more curated, with Let's Plays of mature FLOSS games, it would be awesome! :)
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby Lyberta » 21 May 2016, 10:29

Interesting channel, but I agree, way too much Love2D tech demos. I'm thinking about starting with really cool games like Red eclipse and Xonotic and then doing blind let's plays of FLOSS games I can find. Certainly thinking about going through the whole games section in Debian repo.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby c_xong » 21 May 2016, 13:55

Good LPs are hard to do; good luck in your quest!
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby Lyberta » 21 May 2016, 19:47

Hmm, do you need to provide a phone number to register? If yes, fuck Google, I'm not signing up. The ToS and privacy policy are horrible. Maybe someone is willing to act as a proxy, I'll upload the video somewhere and someone else will upload it to youtube?
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby leilei » 22 May 2016, 01:42

On the bright side, the requirement was a nice curb to recurring trolls.


As for a JimSterling approach to FOSS gaming it'd probably end up being a little cruel because let's face it - not a lot of games look all that great (besides the formerly-commercial 'liberated' ones), some are cringingly bad, some are obviously obsessively derivative (OpenTTD for example), and asset flipping is greatly encouraged., and the audience may not realize it's all mostly sparetime hobby work with no ambition to be the big GOTY/a "mobile" company's cash grab, but rather Free Software gap filling and a way for Linux to enjoy games that only have eternal existence on other platforms.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby eugeneloza » 22 May 2016, 10:12

Making let's plays is a great idea.
And yes, I also have 15-minutes limitation on Youtube because I don't want to share my phone number with google :) And I have a mobile phone with buttons :)
Maybe, there is a sorted list of nice FOSS games in need of "first run"s, "tutorial"s, "let's play"s or "longplay"s to check? I like slow-pace (or even turn-based) games and I'd be glad to make something like this from time to time.
I'm definitely not a pro, but sometimes amateur level is better than nothing :)
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby onpon4 » 22 May 2016, 12:47

Well, I don't know if these are the kinds of games you're looking for, but here's a short list of some games I can think of that would be interesting so see a blind Let's Play of (full disclosure: I'm involved in the development of the first two games):

- Project: Starfighter
- ReTux
- The Ur-Quan Masters
- Freedroid RPG
- SuperTux (ha, good luck finding someone who can do this blind!)
- Warzone 2100
- Alex the Allegator 4
- Barbie Seahorse Adventures
- Endgame: Singularity
- Ardentryst
- Dink Smallwood (FreeDink)
- Flight of the Amazon Queen
- Beneath a Steel Sky
- Waste's Edge

By the way, here's some games that should definitely NOT get a Let's Play right now because of their incompleteness:

- Naev (The web of campaigns is very incomplete right now and full of dead-ends where stories just sort of stop. Also, there's no way that the game can be "completed" in any meaningful sense.)
- Freedoom (There comes a point when levels just stop coming and you get a series of empty filler levels.)
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby Lyberta » 22 May 2016, 13:56

eugeneloza {l Wrote}:Making let's plays is a great idea.
And yes, I also have 15-minutes limitation on Youtube because I don't want to share my phone number with google :) And I have a mobile phone with buttons :)


So you don't have to provide a phone number? I'm getting "invalid request" when I try to create an account, maybe it's because I'm using Tor.

onpon4 {l Wrote}:- SuperTux (ha, good luck finding someone who can do this blind!)

I can do this blind. :D
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby eugeneloza » 22 May 2016, 17:20

onpon4 {l Wrote}:- Project: Starfighter

I haven't seen this game before but I liked the video and I'll give it a good look in the nearest future.
- ReTux

I don't like platformers :)

- The Ur-Quan Masters
- Freedroid RPG
- SuperTux

Well... those have tons of let's play videos :) I've also uploaded to youtube quiet a lot of super melee's from the UrQuan Masters - sweet memories of my childhood :D

- Dink Smallwood (FreeDink)

I've played the game, but I didn't like it very much. However, as there is no video walkthrough I think it's possible to make something like that. Good idea.

- Warzone 2100
- Alex the Allegator 4
- Barbie Seahorse Adventures
- Endgame: Singularity
- Ardentryst
- Flight of the Amazon Queen
- Beneath a Steel Sky
- Waste's Edge

I've never seen those before... I'll surely have a look at them a bit later.

FaTony {l Wrote}:So you don't have to provide a phone number?

No, they require me to add a phone number to extend my video length beyond 15 minutes (which is usually enough for short sessions let's-plays). However, I've registered maybe 6-7 years ago.
As far as I understand, if you have google+ account you are automatically registered at youtube. I've created a few google+ accounts for my friends just this year and they don't require phone number - just username (they'll create an @gmail.com email address) and a separate e-mail.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby Lyberta » 22 May 2016, 17:40

I've tried to register again and still got "invalid request". Hmm.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby onpon4 » 22 May 2016, 17:54

eugeneloza {l Wrote}:Well... those have tons of let's play videos :)

I was talking specifically about blind let's plays. I like those a lot better than staged ones and couldn't care less about walkthroughs. I'm only aware of one completed blind let's play for UQM (and it wasn't entirely blind; the guy had an audience that was giving him some hints along the way), and I haven't seen any blind let's plays for the other two at all.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby eugeneloza » 22 May 2016, 18:11

onpon4 {l Wrote}:I was talking specifically about blind let's plays.

Hmm... Now I understand what you mean... I've always thought that "let's play" requires author to have some proper knowledge on the game to be useful for others. Best if he/she has already finished the game and is quiet good at it. He'll be able to provide the viewers with good itps and tricks to improve their gameplay and reveal hidden secrets and easter eggs. Not him struggling with understanding the interface and etc.
And yes... I've finished "The Ur-Quan Masters" (Star Control II those days), "Freedroid RPG" (some early version) and FreeDink (almost completely, until I've got bored), so those definitely won't be blind :)
But, maybe I'm too old-fashioned and I go to youtube to find information, not just watch something fun (I always prefer playing than merely watching :)).
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby Lyberta » 23 May 2016, 01:17

I really prefer blind let's plays because I'm on a same page as the gamer. They are priceless because they show how the game is played for the first time and all game design bugs are seen.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby Akien » 23 May 2016, 06:47

FaTony {l Wrote}:I really prefer blind let's plays because I'm on a same page as the gamer. They are priceless because they show how the game is played for the first time and all game design bugs are seen.


I think most of the time blind let's plays are counter-productive for libre games. Let's face it, libre games are not developed by huge studios with 50 game designers thinking about how to make the game user-friendly, easy to understand and fun to play from the start. So blind let's plays on libre games would just end up showing how badly designed libre games are, and would badly serve our communities more than help raise awareness about the cool concepts we develop with free code and free art.

Blind let's plays is mostly what the Open Source Games channel I mentioned is about. Personally I'm not fond of it :) It's fun for million-dollar productions, but not for hobbyist libre games. If the purpose it to show "all game design bugs", I don't think that's what libre games need to get more visibility.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby eugeneloza » 23 May 2016, 07:45

FaTony {l Wrote}:all game design bugs are seen.

Well... I absolutely agree with Akien. It'd just present the game from the bad point of view. That will be absolutely useful for the developer personally, but it doesn't help the gamers community.
On the other hand, the emotions when playing the game for the first time and encountering something unknown are very different that when you already have played the game for some time.
But it'll take some time and trial-and-error to work out how the things work. E.g. beating a naughty fight might be very tricky and take a dozen of tries... In RPG you might end up on a dead line (e.g. having too low HPs before a boss fight). Sometimes searching for secrets or figuring out how to do something better takes a lot of relatively boring time & reversing (I don't think it's very interesting to watch).
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby onpon4 » 23 May 2016, 12:46

Akien {l Wrote}:I think most of the time blind let's plays are counter-productive for libre games. Let's face it, libre games are not developed by huge studios with 50 game designers thinking about how to make the game user-friendly, easy to understand and fun to play from the start. So blind let's plays on libre games would just end up showing how badly designed libre games are, and would badly serve our communities more than help raise awareness about the cool concepts we develop with free code and free art.

What a patronizing attitude this is. I'm sorry, but as a game developer, the idea that you would distort the truth to try to prop up my game as better than it really is insults me. I don't claim to have the resources of game studios with massive budgets, but I'm proud of my work and want people to judge it fairly.

Also, not all proprietary games that people love are developed by "huge studios with 50 game designers". There are quite a lot of proprietary indie games developed only by one or maybe two people, and a lot of those games, when judged fairly by critics, are well liked. If they can do it, so can we.

Blind let's plays is mostly what the Open Source Games channel I mentioned is about. Personally I'm not fond of it :) It's fun for million-dollar productions, but not for hobbyist libre games. If the purpose it to show "all game design bugs", I don't think that's what libre games need to get more visibility.

That channel only has gameplay footage without any commentary. I don't know why it is being described as a let's play channel, and I don't see any particular reason to assume that its videos are blind.

A let's play is more than just gameplay footage; the main focus is on the commentary of the player, not on the game itself.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby Lyberta » 23 May 2016, 17:16

onpon4 {l Wrote}:What a patronizing attitude this is. I'm sorry, but as a game developer, the idea that you would distort the truth to try to prop up my game as better than it really is insults me. I don't claim to have the resources of game studios with massive budgets, but I'm proud of my work and want people to judge it fairly.

Also, not all proprietary games that people love are developed by "huge studios with 50 game designers". There are quite a lot of proprietary indie games developed only by one or maybe two people, and a lot of those games, when judged fairly by critics, are well liked. If they can do it, so can we.


Exactly, I can't name any AAA game which was developed after 2007 and was really good. All AAA games I played were shit.

And look at Undertale. Developed by basically 1 person and is better than most AAA games.

Disclaimer: Of course I didn't play it myself. I never play proprietary games anymore. I've watched a blind let's play of it.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby MCMic » 24 May 2016, 04:21

If you don’t like Youtube account requirements, just make a video channel elsewhere.
Maybe hosting a mediagoblin would be good for this.
I only tried cumulusclips because mediagoblin seemed hard to install. cumulusclips is ok but hard to customize without going into the code.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby NaN » 24 May 2016, 10:46

What a patronizing attitude this is. I'm sorry, but as a game developer, the idea that you would distort the truth to try to prop up my game as better than it really is insults me. I don't claim to have the resources of game studios with massive budgets, but I'm proud of my work and want people to judge it fairly.

Also, not all proprietary games that people love are developed by "huge studios with 50 game designers". There are quite a lot of proprietary indie games developed only by one or maybe two people, and a lot of those games, when judged fairly by critics, are well liked. If they can do it, so can we.

You feel insulted by someone stating that reviews could have a damaging effect?

Can you imagine that there might be people working on libre games and sharing them with others, while also being aware of the flaws their games have? What exactly would those reviews do for them? Tell them something that they already know, and eventually demotivate them to share what they have, because it is not up to commercial quality?
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby onpon4 » 24 May 2016, 12:16

NaN {l Wrote}:You feel insulted by someone stating that reviews could have a damaging effect?

No, I am insulted by the idea that someone would shelter my game from criticism because of this. What this would suggest to me is that they don't respect my work.

NaN {l Wrote}:Can you imagine that there might be people working on libre games and sharing them with others, while also being aware of the flaws their games have? What exactly would those reviews do for them? Tell them something that they already know, and eventually demotivate them to share what they have, because it is not up to commercial quality?

Any game developer needs to learn to accept criticism or they will not ever become good at it. If you are so thin-skinned that you just give up when someone points out that your game sucks, then you should give up on game development. Besides, who are you to judge what someone else knows? I don't know about other game developers, but I don't intentionally put flaws into games I develop. If a game I developed has a flaw and no one tells me, that just leaves me fumbling in the dark trying to figure out what the flaw is, or worse, leaves me not knowing that there is a flaw in the game at all.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby eugeneloza » 24 May 2016, 12:41

onpon4 {l Wrote}:No, I am insulted by the idea that someone would shelter my game from criticism because of this.

No-no-no... Akien and me meant absolutely different thing. No one is goning to shelter some bugs/errors from the Author :)

It's just the goal of "let's play" - to show the project to people.
And the goal for bug reports and tickets - to show bugs to the Author.
It's a bad idea to mix one with another. When I come to youtube I want to see what the project looks like, is this game worth playing?

And what do I see?
- Wow! That ship flies and shoots asteroids... there is a shop with upgrades. It has nice graphics and the let's play author enjoys the game. Sounds good! I'll give it a try and make my own opinion on the game.
- What's this? The narrator complains about how bad the game is. He spends 10 minutes in the shop trying to figure out how to buy an upgrade. He doesn't like the colors. He hates lags in controls. I hear how annoyed the player is because of loosing the boss fight for the 10th time until he figures out that he can use missles... WHAT THE HECK??? WHY DID THE SCREEN TURN GREEN??? Nope, I won't try this one... Actually I just wanted to see a let's play, not a bug report - with most bugs I'll never experience in my own playthrough...

And of course, bug report is essential part of the development. As for me, it takes me up to ~30% of development time for testing the game. With proper bug reports and feature requests this time might be significantly reduced. Moreover, the game looks really different to the Author and the players - and especially when developing a game solo you can often miss some critical issues especially in ease of understanding and ergonomics.
But again... this information is important for the Author only. I never read bug reports someone else's games/programs, unless I'm checking against double-posting the bug I've found. Players don't need and won't appreciate such information. They just dropped in to see "what the game looks like?" and "is it fun to play?".
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby Akien » 24 May 2016, 13:39

onpon4 {l Wrote}:Any game developer needs to learn to accept criticism or they will not ever become good at it. If you are so thin-skinned that you just give up when someone points out that your game sucks, then you should give up on game development. Besides, who are you to judge what someone else knows? I don't know about other game developers, but I don't intentionally put flaws into games I develop.

Now who's patronizing?

You seem to totally ignore the fact that 99% of us are developing games on our free time, a few hours a week at best. Of course there are flaws. We did not put them intentionally, they're just there because you can't make a perfect game in the first go. It takes years to make a good game. So yeah, feel free to make a blind Let's play of OpenDungeons to show the world that it sucks as a game compared to proprietary equivalents; nothing surprising for a WIP game and for anyone reading the changelog, so the players will just learn to stay clear from it, and the devs won't learn anything new.
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby Andrettin » 24 May 2016, 18:25

onpon4 {l Wrote}:- Dink Smallwood (FreeDink)


Dink Smallwood is lovely :)
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Re: YouTube channel

Postby Lyberta » 24 May 2016, 23:54

Why so defensive? If your game sucks, let's player has full right to say it. Especially why I love blind let's plays because they show how the game is really played with all it's bugs and glitches. In fact, the more horrible the game is, the funnier it is to watch it. Again, check the Jim Sterling channel, especially Early Jimpressions.

Anyway, 3rd attempt at registering channel is coming, this time I will allow cookies from Google.

EDIT: "Sorry, we cannot serve your request for a new account at this moment. " Great.

EDIT2: Ok, I even gave it a phone number and no luck. Also tried from Riseup VPN. No luck. Well, I already gave Google way too much info, goodbye, Google.

So? Mediagoblin? Vimeo? This certainly means barely any publicity at all, youtube is a monopoly on videos. Sigh.
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