If it can never be mobile, is there even a point?

[FreakNigh]

From what I can tell these days indie developers are going to have a pure hell of a time getting attention for a game if it is windows only. If it is on linux then it still gets a free ride on many game listing and update websites. But I was just wondering, is there are point in starting a game that doesn't start off supporting mobile phones / pads from the start? Also what are some good programming / library solutions for being on say windows/linux/mac/iphone/android? I know of unity but that is 3d oriented and c# scripted.

Is there going to be a break where only the hardcore games still have a place on the PC and all the mid - little games are only worth making for the mobiles?

[qubodup]

Many non-mobile, non-console titles get prototyped on computers and then rewritten for other platforms.

Example 1: http://www.desktopdungeons.net/
Example 2: http://www.spelunkyworld.com/

While code has to be rewritten and art might have to be iterated, the game design is likely to stay the same in the step of going to mobile/console.

So much for prototyping on desktop computers I guess.

[Julius]

I think it is worthwhile to have the mobile platform in mind, as mobiles could replace a significant part of the desktops soon (via docking station and quite powerfull hardware in them, see that Motorola phone that can already do so)... lets see what happens.

However contrary to a Linux port, a mobile port will probably not give you much free advertising as the apple or android shops are flooded with cheap games every day.

[FreakNigh]

Well I don't think most open source cat herded projects can keep themselves developing long enough to build a prototype and then port it. That depends on the magnitude of the prototype though. Either way it is still lost time and energy that could have been used else ware if the approach was done right from the beginning.

I agree though, being available on linux is probably the best place to get free good coverage these days. However you will get some flash coverage on mobiles too and be in another market and every little bit helps. If you can provide to all the platforms right from the beginning then the "little" amount of extra effort actually pays off proportionally.

A lot of the really great old games were ahead of the their time technologically. Quake 1 was capable of running on a 486. I know mobiles are not our preferred platform but maybe pushing the envelope is what is needed to give a project an edge. I'm not talking about being mobile only though. Also it is a lot easier to sell the precompiled version of an open source mobile game as the easiest way to get the game is through the store. Most people couldn't be hassled to try and work around that just for a few bucks they are already accustom to paying anyways.

I'm just saying, for a game to not have multiplayer is big hit, or not have 3d. Is not having a mobile port going to be a big hit, possibly one large enough that it wasn't even worth making?

[Knitter]

It's just another platform, another player.

Mobile gaming existed before iPhone/iPad/Android, but has definitely gained more attention and users with these new platforms. Still I think there is room for everyone and the desktop games won't disappear.

I use several platforms, from Windows, GNU Linux, OS X and Android, being able to play the same game in all of them is great but it isn't a requirement and I understand that most users don't have more than one operating system, so being able to reach various platforms is a way to get more users but if you put the mobile platforms in the equation then your game will either have different versions, and be a different game altogether, or be very limited since the mobile platform will be dictating the rules, it's the least powerful of the group.

If you think about mobile, you should also consider web games like flash and JavaScript with HTML5, isn't that also an important platform to reach more users?

In the end, I don't think we should care too much about the current hype, it's a fact that Android and iOS have changed the gaming scene (hey, I see my friend's grandmothers playing the iPad like crazy and they never liked games ) but not every game type runs well on these platforms and there will always be a need for desktop games.

Given the above, if you're starting a project you're the only one in the position to say if you should or should support mobile platforms. If you're starting a FPS, then mobile is probably out of the question. If your starting a rewrite of an old game maybe it could have it's place in the mobile world. It really depends on the game you're building.

Another thing to consider is money, though in decline, the iPhone/iPad and Android stores seem to be a nice way to generate revenue for you project and can be used to support development in other areas. I don't do much game developing but considering the amount of libraries and ready to use code and examples, I think you can build a nice game for any mobile platform in a small amount of time, main problem seems to be the assets like images and sounds, if you have those in a desktop game wouldn't it be easier to just port the game to a iPhone/iPad/Android? Most the code you have to change is related to GUI since you'll work with different GUI systems, the inner works of your game would be the same, somethings you can even use the exact same code (C, C++ and Java on the Android for example).

As a developer I take a look at those platforms but I don't think I should focus on them, there are a lot of areas where they fail and there is room for every platform out there. The desktop isn't going to be replaced by a mobile solution.

I don't know much about Unity, I've read some things about it but I never liked the concept/licenses behind it, still it may be may lack of knowledge about the thing. For Android (the one I'm familiar and develop to) there is lots of libraries and engines you can use, AndEngine is one that comes to mind, and you can use OpenGL in it's lighter version OpenGL ES. You either develop in Java or with a mix of Java and C++. Any game that needs some speed will have to be developed in both Java and C++, where you use Java for general GUI and interaction with the Android OS and C++ in lower level things like physics and access to OpenGL ES, you can do it all in Java in most 2D games but you'll need the speed that C++ brings in the Android for other heavier things.

In iOS you will most likely develop in ObjectiveC, there are some other platforms for development but Apple makes it clear that it supports ObjectiveC and all other languages are second or third class citizens. There are game engines for ObjectiveC but most of the ones I know are paid solutions. Also, for developing for iOS you need to be a registered developer and pay the 100$/year subscription (200$ if you want to develop in both App Stores (iPhone and OS X).

If you go the HTML5/JavaScript way, then you'll have your game in all worlds

[FreakNigh]

Ya having mobile as a baseline platform will dictate the game, particularly how it is controlled. However maybe over time the average players expectation will decrease due to the convenience of being able to play on the phone? I can think of a list of games I'd rather play in the living room while others watch tv then being locked away in the back room, and I grew up with that being ok. New generations may find it intolerable to go into the back room computer just to play a game (unless it can't be played on the mobile and is too cool to not play).

It's harder for the developer generation of games to see the change because we're used to playing on the computer and it doesn't bother us to still play it on the computer. The growing generations however might look at the two and need a very good reason to play it on the computer if they can't play it mobile. Going to the computer might become as big a hassle as going to the arcade? I mean people can't walk down the street anymore, they have to drive... and lots of other stupid things we can't be bothered with anymore. If there is no significant reason the player has to play it on the computer, I think eventually they won't if it could have been mobile.

However honestly I don't really believe in limiting yourself even more with browser based games unless your target market is people playing at work. The iphone lets you code c++ however you might need bits of objective-c for interfacing purposes here and there. Objective-C is an instantaneous learn if you know c++ though, it literally is just c with a different way of doing classes.

And yes Mobile development is surely hyped at the moment but that doesn't mean it will be a fad. This hype could be the fuel to build and secure it as the casual gaming platform for quite some time...

[oberhamsi]

Also what are some good programming / library solutions for being on say windows/linux/mac/iphone/android? I know of unity but that is 3d oriented and c# scripted.

I'm probably stating the obvious: you could go browser = JavaScript. Works on all plattforms and mobile browsers are pretty decent nowadays.

[Knitter]

I agree that it won't go away (mobile gaming that is), but I don't see it as something similar to the arcade. The is nothing in the arcade that I can't do in the desktop but there is a lot I can't do in a smartphone that I can easily do in a computer. At least this will be true for quite some time.

I think it's important to know the existing market and to adapt to it and move with it, developing for smartphones is here to stay. But your question was if it there was a point in a new project that doesn't support the new mobile devices, and my view is that, though they are important new platforms, you can still create a new project and not support them at all and be a valid project with many users.

In 10 years from now I don't know if it will still be true but for now, I feel that not supporting mobile gaming doesn't cause that much problems.

[mdwh]

Let's see - number of Windows users? Versus number of Iphone users? Linux has the advantage that there are extra sites to advertise your game, and possibly that users are more likely to investigate open source - there's less competition from commercial games. This doesn't apply to mobile phones. I'd at least pick large platforms like J2ME or Nokia smartphones - the Iphone seems to be the worst combination of smaller installed userbase, but with everyone and their dog jumping onto the bandwagon to write an "app".

Writing UIs to be scalable is a good thing, but sometimes a phone isn't going to be suitable to play when it's a game intended for a larger screen size.

Adding extra platforms means more potential users, but I don't see anything special about mobiles. The mobile platforms have the huge disadvantage that it's much harder to be cross-platform - different platforms use C++, J2ME, Android's incompatible Java, Objective C which also needs custom Apple-only hardware to develop on, C# ...

As for phone docking stations - I'm sure it will happen, but far from writing games with mobiles in mind, on the contrary, we need OSs written with desktops in mind (i.e., to replace traditional PCs, I'd rather be running an OS rather than one designed for phones).

[mdwh]

And if you're counting an Ipad as mobile, then so is a netbook - so as long as you support Windows or Linux, you're supporting a major mobile platform already.

[FreakNigh]

Well one thing to consider is all mobiles may eventually be unix like environments where anything written for linux can be easily modified to make work. Kind of like a mac at worst.

All hardware running linux is only the natural way for everything to go... Just a matter of time before linux is matured, user friendly, and commercial friendly enough to take over and spread like a virus. Ubuntu has already shown how fast linux can take over if user friendliness can be established. Now if it succeeds in its app store for commercial software... It's over

[dusted]

One has only to experience gameplay on an iPod/iPad/Android/Phone to know there's no chance in hell gaming will be anywhere near interesting on the mobile platform. Sure, there's some sale in games for phones, but it's mainly because people think it's cool to see graphics n stuff moving on their droid..

[FreakNigh]

We just got the ipad actually. It is very powerful graphically... I think it is great platform for games however the control system is horrible. It is perfect for games but the game has to require minimal input. Something like master of orions or final fantasys could be huge hits on these platforms.

[Irritant]

While some games might be fine for mobile devices, the biggest moneymaking genre is decidely not. In the FPS world, smaller is not better, bigger is. It's much more immersive and enjoyable to play and FPS game on a 27 inch 1080p monitor with a full kb and mouse than it is on an Android, or even and Xbox for that matter.

[FreakNigh]

Ya of course. You really need to own a mobile device to know what kinds of games are ideal for it. One thing I've noticed though is it is completely lacking games that are not just little time passers, modern tetris's. But games bigger then a modern tetris take at least a year to make and a lot of these mobile platforms have only been available for a few years... So I wouldn't doubt there is a regiment of real games already with a year or so of development that still need another year to finish...

I would say now that I own a mobile device you definitely need to support it if your game is very ideal for it. But it needs to be formalized and polished and in their app stores otherwise the majority will by pass it.