[Meta] FreeGameDev changes NEW: https://freegamedev.net

[Julius]

Still another issue it seems. I added the extra ")" though.

[bzt]

Huh? What version of Flarum are you running?

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

Unable to query the database: SQLSTATE[42S22]: Column not found: 1054 Unknown column 'b.hidden_at' in 'where clause'

According to the official site's sql dump, both the discussions table (line 74) and the posts table (line 228) should have a "hidden_at" field. If there isn't then I really honestly don't now what you meant by "private tag" if not the "is_private" fields.

Anyway, here's a fix, hidden_at removed, use this sql:

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

   $sql = "SELECT a.id, a.title, a.slug, a.last_posted_at, a.comment_count, b.username, ".
      " TIMESTAMPDIFF(SECOND, a.last_posted_at, NOW()) as t, ".
      " DATE_FORMAT(a.last_posted_at, '%a, %d %b %Y %T') as d FROM ".
      $config["database"]["prefix"]."discussions as a LEFT JOIN ".
      $config["database"]["prefix"]."users as b ON a.last_posted_user_id = b.id ".
      "WHERE b.id IS NOT NULL AND a.is_private != 1 AND b.is_private != 1 ".
      "ORDER BY a.last_posted_at DESC LIMIT ".$limit.";";


Hope this will finally work.

Cheers,
bzt

[Julius]

I use the latest stable Flarum release 1.0.2.

The columns "is_private" (and "is_approved", something we probably want to use in the future), exists in the DB, so I am not sure why your new code is still failing.

But you are right, the "is_private" seems to refer to another mechanism than the private tags that are used to hid certain posts from non-authorized users. I'll look a bit closer to where that is stored in the database, but it seems odd that this isn't done at the "post" level.
Edit: hmm, this looks like it is designed to not store that at "post" level but rather indirectly through the tag association and the "is_restricted" column in the "tags" section. I guess that is due to the modular nature of Flarum with tags not being a core feature :-/

[bzt]

I use the latest stable Flarum release 1.0.2.

The columns "is_private" (and "is_approved", something we probably want to use in the future), exists in the DB, so I am not sure why your new code is still failing.

Because I've used the official DB scheme, but it looks like you're having a different one? There's no "is_approved" field at all for example...

But you are right, the "is_private" seems to refer to another mechanism than the private tags that are used to hid certain posts from non-authorized users. I'll look a bit closer to where that is stored in the database, but it seems odd that this isn't done at the "post" level.

Actually it is. The problem we're having is that in your DB there's no "is_private" field in the posts table, but it should be. At least in the official sql dump it exists.

Edit: hmm, this looks like it is designed to not store that at "post" level but rather indirectly through the tag association and the "is_restricted" column in the "tags" section. I guess that is due to the modular nature of Flarum with tags not being a core feature :-/

Ok, absolutely no "tags" table...

To get this solved in short time, may I ask for an sql dump of your current DB? You can remove all sensitive information if there's any, I'm only interested in the schema. With that I can create a sql query which filters everything out that you want filtered out in no time. It is very strange that your schema differs to the official one, not just you have more tables for the modules, but some fields in core tables are missing too.

Cheers,
bzt

[Julius]

The "is_private" column definitely exist my my database under "posts".

I thin the problem is that the "core" Flarum is intentionally stripped down to the bare minimum and most stuff is managed through extensions that are often bundled with the core, like the "tags" one.

As for debugging this further, let me try the newly updated syndication extension first, maybe that solves the issue anyways and is probably nicer as you can subscribe to specific categories etc.

[bzt]

The "is_private" column definitely exist my my database under "posts".

Then that sql error makes no sense.

I thin the problem is that the "core" Flarum is intentionally stripped down to the bare minimum and most stuff is managed through extensions that are often bundled with the core, like the "tags" one.

As for debugging this further, let me try the newly updated syndication extension first, maybe that solves the issue anyways and is probably nicer as you can subscribe to specific categories etc.

Yikes, but does it support non-login, suckless, simple list of new posts? I'd only want to quickly check if there's a new post, without logging in or enabling js, exactly the same that phpBB does out-of-the-box with active topics. I like simple.

Cheers,
bzt

[Julius]

Please test the syndication feeds (it is limited to the last 20 entries as well):
https://freegamedev.net/d/1-welcome-to- ... -forums/22

[bzt]

Please test the syndication feeds (it is limited to the last 20 entries as well):
https://freegamedev.net/d/1-welcome-to- ... -forums/22

It is terribly slow, but probably this hurts you (and your server) much more than me. I can wait after all...

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

$ time curl https://freegamedev.net/atom -s -o /dev/null
real   0m1.008s
user   0m0.033s
sys   0m0.015s
$


I've repeated the download several times, the best was 0.47 sec.

It is not refreshing (the same nginx expire configuration issue as with rss.php):

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

$ curl -I https://freegamedev.net/atom
HTTP/2 200
server: nginx
date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 20:05:51 GMT
content-type: application/atom+xml; charset=utf8
x-content-type-options: nosniff
referrer-policy: same-origin
x-powered-by: Flarum
x-csrf-token: sKXkdTBUfrpOAXxGrEsUrKk9OphKud3DLo5RB0Ea
set-cookie: flarum_session=owDg6MblteFheXQYfw0YvnGisIKVwG2cwE32stpn; Path=/; Expires=Fri, 11 Jun 2021 22:05:51 GMT; Max-Age=7200; Secure; HttpOnly; SameSite=Lax
last-modified: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 18:49:53 GMT
cache-control: max-age=3600
expires: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 21:05:51 GMT


(See that "max-age=3600"?)

About the atom feed:
- there are no dates. Neither absolute nor relative, so I cannot see when the posts were made.
- incorrect charset is specified ("utf-8" vs. "utf8")
- there's a validation error because it does not remove all tags?
- does not pass the validation: https://validator.w3.org/feed/check.cgi?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffreegamedev.net%2Fatom

About the rss feed:
- for some reason there are no links, so I can't go to the discussion
- I can't see who made the post (username is missing)
- same charset issue as with the atom
- does not pass the validation: https://validator.w3.org/feed/check.cgi?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffreegamedev.net%2Frss

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
bzt

[Julius]

Thanks, will report the issues upstream. About the dates/time... my feed reader does show them. Seems maybe an issue of the Firefox plugin you are using?

Indeed this looks like a more heavy weight solution, I'll have to see what the impact on the server is.

[bzt]

Thanks, will report the issues upstream. About the dates/time... my feed reader does show them. Seems maybe an issue of the Firefox plugin you are using?

Yeah, could be. But if the rss feed would include the poster's name and working links, I wouldn't care. Actually I would be happy with the poster's name, I can copy'n'paste the url to the address bar if I want to.

Indeed this looks light a more heavy weight solution, I'll have to see what the impact on the server is.

This is something you have to decide yourself. I don't mind if I have to wait a few secs. Otherwise this looks promising, provides the list of latest posts without logging in or enabling js, so looks good for me :-)

Cheers,
bzt

[drummyfish]

Ummm... how did we end up with the horrible Flarum forum? Last time I've read this topic everyone hated it and a usable no JS fallback seemed to also at least have been a requirement. Have you just given up on that? Because I am not going to use a forum that requires JS. Really sad to see one of the last freedom caring communities fall.

[Julius]

As I wrote elsewhere, I have applied three main criteria:

1. User-friendly / modern looking with good mobile browser support (only way to attract new users, and lets be honest: this forum is dying)
2. Stable code-base with good moderation features / anti-spam and which can be hosted in a way that will not cause headaches in a few years
3. Accessible / usable from noJS browsers etc. (but note: Javascript use is fully compatible with "freedom" as defined by the FSF)

Additional minimum criteria: no 3rd party user tracking, fully FOSS, easily GDPR compliant

Nice to have: federation, integration with other systems (chat etc.)

Looking at these criteria, Flarum is IMHO the best fit, even though 3. is not very good with it... and I have searched and tested a lot of options in the last 3 years

@Drummyfish: at least join us on IRC

[drummyfish]

I understand @Julius. I know you're an admin and do this work in free time, I am very grateful for it, and I know these features will make the work easier for you. I am just really sad as I will have to leave this community, it really hit me hard. I see one of the last communities that have resisted the evils of toxic mainstream technology finally being devoured by it. You will get new users but lose some of the old ones, the ones that truly believed in the ideas.

I try to care about freedom that goes further than a license. Even if JavaScript and Flarum technically pass as legally free software, they may still discriminate against users, they may still pose greater security risks and they may still be a bad technology.

Anyway that's it, I don't know what more to say. See you... somewhere.

Thank you for the invitation to IRC, I'll try to connect sometimes, even though I don't do much realtime chatting.

[Jastiv]

I briefly checked out the new forum. It is slow as tar, I mean, why do I have to wait for it to load? I guess I'm not really pleased with that.

[Julius]

Yes I am aware of the issue... it is likely due to the host it runs on. Edit: I think it is a database issue, but the odd thing is that at times is is reasonably quick (but not super fast) and then it slows down to a crawl.

On the same server Flarum used to run fine in the past, so I didn't think it would be a problem at all. But I guess I should have been more suspicious after recent changes on the same server broke the Hubzilla/Planets.

I am currently planning to migrate the forum to a different server, but not sure when I can complete that.

Honestly, this is annoying me a lot and as a result I am probably ditching that hosting company (netcup) completely.

[Julius]

Hmm, I didn't actually get around changing the server yet, but it does seem faster again. Maybe they fixed some of their issues with the database server?

[Wuzzy]

"Vastly improved forums"

Translation:
- Is completely broken without JavaScript (there's not even an error message (The developers apparently never heard of the <NOSCRIPT> tag, which doesn't speak for the quality of the software))
- Infinite scrolling (this is a crime against humanity!)
- Text only uses like 50% of window width, the rest is just noise. WHY?
- Needs re-registration, my current account means nothing
- I just hate the new UX overall, it feels like trash

Oh gosh, I absolutely hate these "improved" forums. And how on earth can you justify infinite scrolling? Infinite scrolling is crap. This alone should have immediately disqualified these new, "vastly improved forums".

There are psychological consequences to endless scrolling that can hurt the user experience as well. For task-driven activities, infinite scrolling can feel like drowning in an information abyss with no end in sight. People who need specific types of information expect content to be grouped and layered according to relevance, by pages. Web users don’t mind clicking links (e.g., a link to the next page) if each click is meaningful and leads them closer to the desired goal.

(…)

With infinitely long pages, people may feel paralyzed by the sheer volume of content or the number of choices and not click anything.

(…)

The worse offense of infinite scrolling on the desktop is that it plays a nasty trick on users. Infinite scrolling breaks the scroll bar by causing it to display the page length inaccurately. Believe it or not, people still use the scroll bar. People rely on scroll bar to tell them how much effort is left. It’s not nice to tell people that they’re almost done when they’re not. Play nicely.

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/infinite-scrolling/

I’m so sorry, says inventor of endless online scrolling

The man behind our ability to endlessly scroll through content on social media sites without ever needing to click a button said he regrets what his invention has done to society.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-m- ... -9lrv59mdk (warning: Paywall)


This new forum software is absolutely terrible, I hope you will rethink your decision.

[Julius]

Thanks for the feedback

- Is completely broken without JavaScript (there's not even an error message (The developers apparently never heard of the <NOSCRIPT> tag, which doesn't speak for the quality of the software))

I'am also not super happy about this, but I understand that the developers do not want to work on a really featured limited nojs fallback for a forum that is essentially a single page Javascript app. I personally do not agree that Javascript by itself is something bad, but lets not repeat the same discussion over and over again.

- Infinite scrolling (this is a crime against humanity!)

Flarum does not use infinite scroll. Once you reach the botton of the page there is a "load more" button. While a bit similar to infinite scroll, most of the negative psychological effects do not apply to that, and given the low traffic out forum gets you will never get into a "infinite scroll of doom" anyways as you will reach the end of the forum pretty soon

- Text only uses like 50% of window width, the rest is just noise. WHY?

This is a feature for readability, and I strongly think this is good. Any text becomes more or less unreadable on a modern widescreens otherwise. In fact this is one of the main gripes I have with this phpBB forum.

- Needs re-registration, my current account means nothing

Yes, this is a consequence of technical and legal (GDPR) issues and there is nothing I can do about that. But given that is forum is 99% long abandoned accounts, I don't see a big issue with that. You can always use the social login features (Github, Gitlab, Discord) if you don't want to create another account.

- I just hate the new UX overall, it feels like trash

There are some things that I also dislike, but overall this UI is much much better than phpBB. Sorry to say, but we will never be able to agree UI wise if you think a UI stuck in the early 2000 era with no proper mobile support is "good". Feel free to suggest alternatives, but I *really* searched for several years for an alternative that could satisfy both the need for a modern UI and noscript demands, and this currently does not exists and AFAIK there is also no forum project working on that seriously.


That said... given the page speed loading issues on the current host I have been thinking of moving the forum to a more fully featured server. However there are several technical and organizational hurdles with that that need to be solved first.
And given that on the new server we would not be constrained by php software, I have looked into maybe using NodeBB instead as that is overall much more performant than Flarum and comes with quite a few features built in that Flarum only has through not very well maintained addons. But obviously none of the problems Wuzzy has would be significantly different with NodeBB.

[dulsi]

That said... given the page speed loading issues on the current host I have been thinking of moving the forum to a more fully featured server. However there are several technical and organizational hurdles with that that need to be solved first.
And given that on the new server we would not be constrained by php software, I have looked into maybe using NodeBB instead as that is overall much more performant than Flarum and comes with quite a few features built in that Flarum only has through not very well maintained addons. But obviously none of the problems Wuzzy has would be significantly different with NodeBB.

While performance is a concern, I'm much more interested in reliability. I joined the new forums because this forum was going down regularly. The new forum is a little slow at times but I'd be reluctant to signup for NodeBB if once again all our old posts are lost.

[drummyfish]

@Wuzzy thank you, it gives me some comfort knowing I'm not the only one. TBH I think this is how this community dies, or rather degrades into something not worth following. Anyway, a death is always an opportunity for something new to be born.

[Wuzzy]

I wanted to give the new forum another try, but: The login menu greets me with "Login with Discord" and "Login with GitHub".
Can the forum please remove this? I don’t think the FOSS community should further normalize Discord and GitHub.

Yes, I know, the normal login still works, but that's not the point.

[Julius]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with removing options that people actually want to use. If you don't want to use it, fine, but why artificially restrict other people?

[PeterX]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with removing options that people actually want to use. If you don't want to use it, fine, but why artificially restrict other people?

Because we believe in FLOSS. And we don't want to support Microsoft's and other proprietary software.

Greetings
Peter

[Julius]

How is that "supporting"? It is just an convenience feature for those using these services anyways (their choice, not mine). It literally makes no difference to those choosing to not use these services nor does it lock those using them further into those platforms.

[PeterX]