FOSS MMOs (Split from Moonwards topic)

FOSS MMOs (Split from Moonwards topic)

Postby rah » 14 Jan 2021, 15:35

Split from here: https://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic ... 22&t=16885

Moonwards {l Wrote}:We're making an MMO, something that has never been done in FOSS before.


What the fsck are you talking about?

https://libregamewiki.org/Massively_mul ... ying_games
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Re: Moonwards

Postby freem » 15 Jan 2021, 00:56

rah {l Wrote}:fsck are you talking about?


{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
fsck from util-linux 2.33.1
Usage: fsck.ext4 [-panyrcdfktvDFV] [-b superblock] [-B blocksize]
      [-l|-L bad_blocks_file] [-C fd] [-j external_journal]
      [-E extended-options] [-z undo_file] device

Emergency help:
 -p                   Automatic repair (no questions)
 -n                   Make no changes to the filesystem
 -y                   Assume "yes" to all questions
 -c                   Check for bad blocks and add them to the badblock list
 -f                   Force checking even if filesystem is marked clean
 -v                   Be verbose
 -b superblock        Use alternative superblock
 -B blocksize         Force blocksize when looking for superblock
 -j external_journal  Set location of the external journal
 -l bad_blocks_file   Add to badblocks list
 -L bad_blocks_file   Set badblocks list
 -z undo_file         Create an undo file

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Re: Moonwards

Postby PeterX » 15 Jan 2021, 12:12

rah {l Wrote}:
Moonwards {l Wrote}:We're making an MMO, something that has never been done in FOSS before.


What the fsck are you talking about?

https://libregamewiki.org/Massively_mul ... ying_games


I think the "has never been done before" refers to this:
Moonwards {l Wrote}:It's a 3D simulation of an advanced lunar town, based on hard science and engineering. It's a sandbox world where visitors can add things that become permanent parts of it, so over time it evolves and enriches.


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Re: Moonwards

Postby rah » 15 Jan 2021, 14:52

PeterX {l Wrote}:I think the "has never been done before" refers to this


I don't understand why you're interpreting what Moonwards said when their sentence is very clear. There's no ambiguity in what they're referring to. Here it is again:

Moonwards {l Wrote}:We're making an MMO, something that has never been done in FOSS before.


They're referring to "making an MMO" as "something that has never been done in FOSS before".

There's no confusion about what they mean. They're definitely talking bollocks.
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Re: Moonwards

Postby PeterX » 15 Jan 2021, 18:07

So he/she should have used a colon at the end of his/her first sentence, to make it clearer. So what? Are you from the language police?

And why be so aggro?

And the project is not uninteresting, it's just not my cup of tea. I am more into fantasy (and maybe fantasy-science-fiction mix).

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Re: Moonwards

Postby rah » 15 Jan 2021, 18:40

PeterX {l Wrote}:So he/she should have used a colon at the end of his/her first sentence, to make it clearer.


I disagree. I see no reason to think they meant anything other than exactly what they wrote.

PeterX {l Wrote}:And why be so aggro?


Their claims are outrageous and an offense to those free software developers who made MMOs before them. These kinds of self-aggrandising lies are disgusting.
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Re: Moonwards

Postby drummyfish » 15 Jan 2021, 19:03

I also interpreted it as @PeterX, calm down @rah :) Anyone tried this?
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Re: Moonwards

Postby Moonwards » 16 Jan 2021, 00:19

This is an MMO, not an MMORPG. The most similar FOSS thing to it is OpenSimulator, but that allows you to create an empty MMO world that has certain capabilities, it isn't a world with any content.

It's still a semantic argument, and I admit I took the word of a team member that there weren't any FOSS MMORPGs, either. I've downloaded Ryzom and look forward to taking a look at it.
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Re: Moonwards

Postby PeterX » 16 Jan 2021, 10:24

OK, then perhaps have a look at Planeshift, and many more MMORPGs, too. :)
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Re: Moonwards

Postby drummyfish » 16 Jan 2021, 14:45

Planeshift isn't libre! Stay away from that.

https://libregamewiki.org/Libregamewiki ... mes_list#P

However Ryzom is, and I recommend it, I've played it for some time and it's basically like Vanilla WoW.
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Re: Moonwards

Postby rah » 16 Jan 2021, 15:53

Moonwards {l Wrote}:This is an MMO, not an MMORPG.


That doesn't make sense. All MMORPGs are MMOs. MMORPGs are a subset of MMOs.
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Re: Moonwards

Postby drummyfish » 16 Jan 2021, 17:01

rah {l Wrote}:
Moonwards {l Wrote}:This is an MMO, not an MMORPG.


That doesn't make sense. All MMORPGs are MMOs. MMORPGs are a subset of MMOs.


This reasoning is wrong lol. MMORPGs are a subset of MMOs, therefore any MMORPG is a MMO, but not all MMOs are a MMORPG.

WTF are you trolling? xD
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Re: Moonwards

Postby CYBERDEViL » 16 Jan 2021, 17:08

rah is here for the sole purpose of trolling, he/she made that very clear on IRC #freegamer
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Re: Moonwards

Postby Moonwards » 16 Jan 2021, 17:23

The thing for me is that the player experience in an MMO is fundamentally different than an MMORPG. For one like ours, which focuses on allowing people to create things and share them in the world, the networking code is fundamentally different. So, although it has some similarities to an MMORPG, I wouldn't say it should be counted as being part of the same category.

I would say the issue is there aren't enough examples of the kind of game we are making to have the right initials to add on after 'MMO' to state what it is in shorthand.
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Re: Moonwards

Postby PeterX » 16 Jan 2021, 17:27

drummyfish {l Wrote}:Planeshift isn't libre! Stay away from that.

https://libregamewiki.org/Libregamewiki ... mes_list#P

Oh, thanks for the correction. Planeshift's code is free, its art is not!

CYBERDEViL {l Wrote}:rah is here for the sole purpose of trolling, he/she made that very clear on IRC #freegamer

Oh, that explains why he/she is so stubbornly aiming at confrontation about relatively small issues.

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Re: Moonwards

Postby rah » 16 Jan 2021, 17:50

drummyfish {l Wrote}:
rah {l Wrote}:
Moonwards {l Wrote}:This is an MMO, not an MMORPG.


That doesn't make sense.


This reasoning is wrong lol.


The reasoning you've implied here is not the reasoning I've made. This is a straw man. The "that" I referred to was Moonwards' reasoning set out in both their original post and in the comment I responded to here.

Here is what they wrote in their original post:

Moonwards {l Wrote}:We're making an MMO, something that has never been done in FOSS before.


and here is what they wrote in the comment I responded to here:

Moonwards {l Wrote}:This is an MMO, not an MMORPG.


So I'm pointing out the lack of sense in saying that their game is an MMO and that MMOs have never been done in FOSS before, when many MMORPGs, which are all MMOs, have been done.

This reasoning is right.
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Re: Moonwards

Postby rah » 16 Jan 2021, 18:00

Moonwards {l Wrote}:The thing for me is that the player experience in an MMO is fundamentally different than an MMORPG. For one like ours, which focuses on allowing people to create things and share them in the world, the networking code is fundamentally different. So, although it has some similarities to an MMORPG, I wouldn't say it should be counted as being part of the same category.


This shows very confused thinking. There is a category of games called "MMO" which refers to a wide variety of games whose essential quality (the clue is in the name) is that they are played online and with massive numbers of co-players.

There is a subcategory of the MMO category called "MMORPG" which refers to MMOs where the games involves role playing.

In your comment here, you're claiming the "MMO" category for games with a "player experience" like your game and then excluding any MMOs which aren't like your game, like MMORPGs, even though they are played online and with massive numbers of co-players. This is silly.

If your MMO is essentially different from other MMOs, that doesn't mean your game is an MMO and all the others aren't. What it means is that your game is in a new subcategory of MMO.

Please stop trying to play word games in order to put your game in a place it is not deserving of. You cannot claim the category "MMO" I'm afraid.

There are many FOSS MMOs and your claim that there aren't is offensive.
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Re: Moonwards

Postby drummyfish » 16 Jan 2021, 18:13

Getting triggered like that lol I can't xD

Anyway it's a great project, I'm just afraid of that Godot dependency, I'm not a fan of these heavyweight frameworks. But if it gains some traction I'll definitely play it.

I wonder if Godot runs with OpenGL 2.1 because my computer doesn't support a newer version.

EDIT: Actually seems that is the minimum required version! Let's see, I'm downloading the game.
Last edited by drummyfish on 16 Jan 2021, 18:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FOSS MMOs (Split from Moonwards topic)

Postby Julius » 16 Jan 2021, 18:18

Moderator note: rah please stop with this unfounded agressive tone. Just relax ok?
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.” - Philip K. Dick
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Re: FOSS MMOs (Split from Moonwards topic)

Postby drummyfish » 16 Jan 2021, 18:22

I mean @rah if the MMO thing is so important to you can you move it to another thread please? I reckon people here rather want to discuss features and overall ideas and it's kinda spammy here.
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Re: FOSS MMOs (Split from Moonwards topic)

Postby Moonwards » 16 Jan 2021, 19:36

Ok, @rah I've edited the initial post, as A) It's true I had counted on someone else's word that there are no FOSS MMOs, and B) though I sincerely think this game is different enough from a MMORPG to be counted as a different category, it's true that only mentioning MMOs doesn't make that at all clear.

I think that is as much as it's appropriate to do, as I said what I said and I don't want to rewrite history.
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