Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundation

Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby freemedia2018 » 19 Sep 2019, 12:13

Technopeasant {l Wrote}:Stallman was not fired or kicked out, he resigned. You can argue about coercion and all that, but ultimately he made the choice.


People are forced to resign all the time, it is nothing more than a formality.

"Step down or we will fire you." Simple as that. He chose between an appearance of having a choice and something that makes himself and the FSF both look worse-- not a win for anybody. But you're implying that he had a choice to stay on. The evidence (and things people have said) point away from that. No, he most likely did not have a real choice.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby fluffrabbit » 19 Sep 2019, 12:33

and other special sensitivities typically found in the GNU/Linux community respected a bit more in return

Whatever that means. There are enough whiners in the open source community who need to be slapped around quite a bit more. I know I can't get money out of the broader OS gaming community, at least not in the traditional way, and for that reason I am avoiding Linux phones and established businesses are avoiding Linux/BSD anything when it comes to PC. Can you blame them? You folks scared them away. And yes, I would like my account deleted. I emailed you asking the same since there is no actual PM feature enabled here.

Folks can find me on mobilegamedev.org, which is more proprietary-friendly but also tolerates open source diversions.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby Julius » 19 Sep 2019, 12:45

Haha, in fact I was looking for a term that would include the "special sensitivity" of lacking tact and ability to read context in an online conversation... exhibit B: fluffrabbit :p I think that is a social skill deficit that also needs some tolerance, as long as it isn't repeated trolling.

I will delete you account later today if you insist. Sad to see you go though. Maybe sleep over it a night?
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby fluffrabbit » 19 Sep 2019, 13:25

I insist. And you're really asking too much if you expect tact rather than shit-flinging. If the community is something to be tolerated rather than encouraged, you're in the wrong community. I know where I stand. There was a time when my community of shit-flingers thrived on the surface web, and back in those days there was no cognitive dissonance or political doublespeak, it was pretty straightforward to say something because the merit and weight of what is said (the reaction it gets) was worth its weight in gold.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby onpon4 » 19 Sep 2019, 13:58

Of course, let's never discriminate, but that's it. I've never seen a merge request rejected because the author was gay, woman or black. Everything is correct here, there is no issue.

This is an overly simplified view of the world. There are systemic issues at play in society that lead to far fewer contributions from women and minorities, and there's also the problem of women and minorities being made to feel uncomfortable in spaces dominated by white, English-speaking men. These issues need to be considered; you can't just say "we're not actively refusing contributions so it's fine". More subtle bigotry, like not truly accepting the identity of a trans person, or accepting stereotypes about women and unconsciously using them to judge women, needs to be considered as well.

the LGBT/feminist fascism and superiority movements, manifesting e.g. in the form of COCs, which did result in discrimination and kicking people out of development, and which actually resulted in kicking Stallman out of the FSF.

This, right here, is an example of the sort of thing that drives women and minorities away. I've met a self-defined "trans supremacist", and they're not anything like the LGBTQ+ community. Incidentally, they're also a white supremacist and enbyphobic.

It's ridiculous to say that RMS being kicked out of the FSF is the result of "discrimination". He is a public figure who was the figurehead for the libre software movement. When you have the privilege of being a public figure with an elevated voice, you have a certain level of responsibility to use that privilege responsibly. RMS did not. For decades, he's been saying problematic things that give the entire libre software movement a bad image, and frankly that many people do not want to associate with (myself included). He chose to conduct himself in that manner.

Genderqueer people do not choose to be genderqueer. Trans people do not choose to be trans. Gay people do not choose to be gay. And all the LGBTQ+ community wants is acceptance and basic human decency. We are not a supremacist movement. That is absurd.

Feminism isn't a supremacist movement either, with the special exception of TERFs, who most Feminists I have met (myself included) do not really accept as Feminists. TERFs are just transphobic male-haters and rightfully get just as much ire from the LGBTQ+ community as any other group of bigots.

respecting freedom of speech

When you dig deep, those who talk about "freedom of speech" are usually in white supremacist circles. Often unintentionally; I was duped into being in the alt-right circle for a couple years with tactics like that. But that's the core of it.

Also:

https://xkcd.com/1357/

I don't think there is room for a cisgendered white mail proprietary Americans here.

No one has even asked you to leave. Being inclusive of women and minorities doesn't mean excluding cis straight white men.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby fluffrabbit » 19 Sep 2019, 14:00

Being anti-discriminatory is being discriminatory, but open source folks are also discriminatory against proprietary software, so there's that on top of the SJW bullshit. You don't see the problem because it's all things you like, but the things I like are not allowed here.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby onpon4 » 19 Sep 2019, 15:22

Being anti-discriminatory is being discriminatory

That reasoning is no different than the reasoning racists use when they say things like "anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white" and describe white people having children with brown people as "white genocide". To say that it is "discrimination" to expect bigots to not say bigoted things that exclude others is, frankly, absurd.

White nationalists and other bigots use coded language to dress up their bigotry and make it seem more palatable to the masses. They do so by appealing to "free speech", pretending that anti-fascists are the true fascists, pretending that anti-discrimination is the true discrimination, etc. Unfortunately their tactics are sometimes far too effective and lead to unwitting people (which I was one of just a few months ago) into being shields and tokens for the alt-right. Perhaps that is what happened with you; I don't know you personally. But what you are engaged in right now is defense of bigotry, intentional or not.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby fluffrabbit » 19 Sep 2019, 15:37

I know what I'm doing and I would call myself alt-right. That doesn't mean I think white people are special or anything. I don't discriminate against your discrimination when it is actual discrimination. You don't like proprietary software; I get that. There are lots of things and people that I don't like. You don't like capitalists or whatever. Fine. I'm not far right enough to really hate any political party.

It's when you use your beliefs or values as politics that you start to step on toes, as I am doing right now. This is the polite way to step on toes, but I would prefer the impolite way that I enjoyed on /b/ from about 2010 to 2012.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby Lyberta » 19 Sep 2019, 16:01

onpon4 {l Wrote}:We are not a supremacist movement. That is absurd.


Hey, we all have mental breakdowns from time to time. When I'm mad I can really hate the privileged.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby fluffrabbit » 19 Sep 2019, 16:05

But you can get mad in a politically correct way. I can't, so I guess the manly thing to do, if that's so important, is to be reserved. Truth is, I'm rather moderate, but I'd like to be vitriolic about my moderate convictions. There is or was a community like that, and I don't know what happened to it. I do know that it had nothing to do with open source.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby onpon4 » 19 Sep 2019, 16:54

I know what I'm doing and I would call myself alt-right. That doesn't mean I think white people are special or anything.

The alt-right is a reactionary neo-Nazi white superemacist movement. That's all there is to it. Let me guess: you don't think white people are superior, you just want a white ethno-state? That's usually the next round of diversions.

It's when you use your beliefs or values as politics that you start to step on toes, as I am doing right now. This is the polite way to step on toes, but I would prefer the impolite way that I enjoyed on /b/ from about 2010 to 2012.

Members of the alt-right have created all kinds of spaces for neo-Nazis and white supremacists to be these things outright rather than in coded language. I'm sure you've heard of them. Since you align yourself with racism and other bigotry (because, of course, it was you who chose this; I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt), I think you're right to think that you really shouldn't be here. Those spaces would be better for you.

But you can get mad in a politically correct way. I can't

Or to decode what I think you really mean: you're mad at people because you hate them out of bigotry, while Lyberta is mad at people because society is oppressive.

Truth is, I'm rather moderate

No one in the alt-right is "moderate". The alt-right is extremist, reactionary, and bigoted. You said you are alt-right; if you are alt-right, you are not moderate.

Reactionaries are very skilled at hiding their true beliefs, but many of us activists -- those of us you call "SJWs" -- are knowledgeable enough to see right through it. That's why you push so hard against us and try to make us out to be the true villains. That's why you pretend that anti-Fascists are the true Fascists. That's why you pretend that the LGBTQ+ community is a "superiority movement". You're afraid of the truth coming out and being rightfully thrust back to the fringes of society -- and you should be. White supremacy, neo-Nazism, and other forms of bigotry do not belong in the modern world.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby drummyfish » 19 Sep 2019, 17:23

onpon4 {l Wrote}:https://xkcd.com/1357/


Ohhh here we go again, I've been waiting for this one for a millionth time :) Worst xkcd ever created, just for the record.

Free speech has to be absolute, and free speech doesn't mean free just legally, but morally. (Laws are irrelevant and should be abolished.)

Feminists and LGBT are predominantly fascist, strengthening social hierarchies and competition, i.e. by definition. They are a rightist group competing with other rightist groups such as neonazis.

I have analyzed this and created a truly leftist life philosophy that gives reasoning for everything I am saying, if you're interested, please read my manifesto here

https://gitlab.com/drummyfish/my_writin ... society.md
https://gitlab.com/drummyfish/my_writin ... ociety.pdf

And please take a very good look at this:

Lyberta {l Wrote}:We managed to remove Brendan Eich, Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman. One white male homophobe, one white male tone deaf freak and sociopath and one white male misogynist. COC is our weapon. COC is how we cancel people who should have never be in any society in the first place.


Thank you @Lyberta, I am saving this one.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby Julius » 19 Sep 2019, 17:47

Moderator notice:

Jeeeezus, people :!: Calling each other fascists really isn't what I meant with keeping it civil.

I believe no one here is a fascist, and one of the finer points that Stallman said, is that it is a really bad idea to use terms like "sexual assault" or in this case "fascism" in an inflationary fashion. This does a disservice to your argument and is frankly speaking highly insulting to the victims of real fascism (historic or modern day).

I am locking this so that all of you can calm down and think about the larger picture and not the petty cultural out-group wars that seem to be all to prevalent these days.

Oh and last warning, next time I will ban people :eew: And I mean both sides of this.
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Re: Richard Stallman Resigns From The Free Software Foundati

Postby charlie » 23 Sep 2019, 16:37

Unfortunately (or fortunately) for you drummyfish you live in a world where people don't have to put up with another person's bullshit. You can put up your soapbox in the town square but nobody is obligated to stand there and listen. We ban hammer people here and censor extreme stuff, because otherwise the extremist viewpoints dominate and drive the saner people away.

I withold my opinions on RMS due a combination of ignorance of this overall issue (what he said, where etc, and I'm not reading everything in order to catch up) and the possibility of being caught saying something that could be construed as opposite to what I believe because there is some tiny aspects of nuance in what little I did read about RMS' comments (the girl in question was 17, and that's classified as rape in 1 country but not another... I'm uncertain if that's the only case involving his professorial colleague; regardless middle-aged men sleeping with barely-legal girls is creepy af anyway).
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