This is why your bloat games suck

This is why your bloat games suck

Postby drummyfish » 09 May 2021, 14:32

I really miss Trackmania but it's proprietary. If only I could drive cars on my computer, just for fun. Well, maybe Rigs of Rods? I remember trying it a few years back but I was unable to run it, so let's give it another try, surely they would have fixed such a basic issue as running the game.

Go to https://www.rigsofrods.org/download. There's a download "Rigs of Rods 64bit PORTABLE" -- great, it's portable, just download and run :)

*download* cd rigs-or-rods; ./RunRoR

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
./RoR: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.27' not found (required by ./RoR)
./RoR: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6: version `CXXABI_1.3.11' not found (required by ./RoR)
./RoR: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.25' not found (required by ./RoR)
./RoR: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.27' not found (required by ./lib/libMyGUIEngine.so.3.4.0)
./RoR: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.27' not found (required by ./lib/libCaelum.so)
./RoR: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.27' not found (required by ./lib/libOgreMain.so.1.11.6)
./RoR: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.27' not found (required by ./lib/libOgreRTShaderSystem.so.1.11.6)
./RoR: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.27' not found (required by ./lib/libOgreTerrain.so.1.11.6)
./RoR: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so.1: version `ZLIB_1.2.9' not found (required by ./lib/libpng16.so.16)
./RoR: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.25' not found (required by ./lib/libbsd.so.0)


Mkay, so much for the "portable" version, let me google a solution. Answers are several pages long, probably want me to recompile kernel -- okay, let's just build it myself, that's always best.

Go to GH, git clone https://github.com/RigsOfRods/rigs-of-rods.git. Wait 10 minutes for it to clone.

Build instruction say "cmake automatically detects what platform you are using, finds the dependencies, sets up the flags for the compiler accordingly etc." -- AWESOME, I don't even have to hunt down dependencies :) Just run:

cmake -GNinja -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release .

Alright, let's run it:

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:1 (cmake_minimum_required):
  CMake 3.16 or higher is required.  You are running version 3.13.2


Ah, so I just need to update CMake, no big deal.

sudo apt-get install cmake

I get this:

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 cmake : Depends: libarchive13 (>= 3.3.3) but 3.2.2-2+deb9u2 is to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems


Aight, fuck you too.

A thing that's supposed to solve the dependency hell doesn't work because its dependency can't be satisfied.

Thanks for wasting my time. Ah, you want me to build CMake myself? And waste more time on compiling the whole dependency tree myself with a high probability of ending up with a broken dependency that can't be fixed? No thanks.

I can only imagine trying to build an old "libre" game a few years in the future.

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
Sorry, your dependencies are too new.


sry just needed to vent :) Just stop writing shit games that can't be compiled and played.
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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby PeterX » 09 May 2021, 16:10

Yeah, Linux library dependency hell - it sucks. I hate it, too. I have tried several really cool games, but I couldn't get them to work. BTW Linus Torvalds hates that, too.

Just for the developers out there: I found a little graphics/GUI library which is easy to install and use: raylib.

And regarding racing games: Maybe Super Tux Kart would be good? Or maybe TORCS?

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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby drummyfish » 09 May 2021, 17:14

Super Tux Kart is nice indeed, I play it, but I was looking for a more realistic simulator. TORCS I managed to run and it's probably the way to go now.

Also I really loved Pixel Wheels even though it's "only" 2D top-down racing. It's real fun. But there is a Batmobile car that causes me concerns about copyright. Sadly games like Stunt Rally use several real cars and can't be considered libre for this fact. It makes me kinda sad seeing so much work put into a great game and then killing it by something like this.

Yeah and also Yorg. Not hyper realistic either but a very promising game nevertheless!
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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby Ntech » 13 May 2021, 21:28

Use the snap: https://snapcraft.io/rigs-of-rods

Snap bundles all dependencies at a specific version tag; no more dependency fulfillment. Snap handles all of that, and doesn't mess with your underlying system.
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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby drummyfish » 14 May 2021, 11:55

I've seen that, I know it might work but at this point I am already discouraged, the various "app stores" are even more bloated than build systems like CMake, I already have a package manager on my system and don't plan on installing more of them. I might as well create a VM at this point. I am also definitely very afraid to play something I've been unable to build -- such things are de-facto proprietary in my view.

Anyway, on a more positive note, I've now found another game that very pleasantly surprised me and which I am very very much enjoying ATM. It's something awesome that's been unfortunately hiding from me for years: GNU Freedink. It's not racing but it's very entertaining nevertheless, I recommend trying out that game to anyone who might be reading this :)

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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby PeterX » 15 May 2021, 16:38

While we're talking about non-bloated libre games: There is a simple Minecraft clone (without animals and sound) written in some thousands lines of code.

https://www.michaelfogleman.com/projects/craft/

(It's not my project and I'm not playing it. I just thought it might fit into this discussion.)

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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby drummyfish » 15 May 2021, 18:37

Thanks, definitely nice seeing it written in C, but "modern OpenGL" and SQL database kind of kill IMHO. Anyway it could be added to libregamewiki.
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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby PeterX » 15 May 2021, 18:54

drummyfish {l Wrote}:..."modern OpenGL" and SQL database kind of kill IMHO.

What would be alternative(s) to OpenGL and SQL?

(EDIT: Someone already added it to the libregamewiki.)

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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby drummyfish » 16 May 2021, 14:28

OpenGL is fine, just not the "modern" one with shaders. Why? it's overcomplicated, old GPUs don't support, it practically can't be emulated in SW and free drivers such as Nouveau have problems supporting it (I can't use Blender since 3.0 as they bumped the required OGL version), while I don't see any graphics in this game to justify the need for shaders. Alternative to SQL are files: I don't see why a full DB with its own query language etc. is needed for storing information in this game, maybe I'm missing something, but generally people tend to use databases just because they can.
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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby farrer » 16 May 2021, 15:20

drummyfish {l Wrote}:Super Tux Kart is nice indeed, I play it, but I was looking for a more realistic simulator. TORCS I managed to run and it's probably the way to go now.

Also I really loved Pixel Wheels even though it's "only" 2D top-down racing. It's real fun. But there is a Batmobile car that causes me concerns about copyright. Sadly games like Stunt Rally use several real cars and can't be considered libre for this fact. It makes me kinda sad seeing so much work put into a great game and then killing it by something like this.

Yeah and also Yorg. Not hyper realistic either but a very promising game nevertheless!


There's also the old (but still active) Trigger-rally .
Not much realistic (in terms of physics), but still fun...
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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby drummyfish » 16 May 2021, 16:56

farrer {l Wrote}:There's also the old (but still active) Trigger-rally .
Not much realistic (in terms of physics), but still fun...


Looks very good but I can't find the asset license.

EDIT: OK it's in Debian. Gonna try this out.
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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby Technopeasant » 10 Jun 2021, 04:41

You could argue this is actually an issue from too little abstraction rather than too much bloat per say, e.g. being too specific about library versions and what not.

For example, I can run decade old Gambas 3 projects just fine most of the time (and even convert older Gambas 2 ones) because the components update the underlying connections. Only issue I ever come across is occasional syntax changes.

Honestly one of the reasons I prefer it to Python or even C++ where I often encounter these library issues. That and the unbeaten IDE.
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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby Julius » 10 Jun 2021, 11:05

Would be actually really cool if someone would add a bit of modern graphic features to Tigger-rally. Like some fake environmental reflections on the cars would go a long way to make it look much better :)
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Re: This is why your bloat games suck

Postby drummyfish » 10 Jun 2021, 13:32

Julius {l Wrote}:Like some fake environmental reflections on the cars would go a long way to make it look much better :)


Oh yeees please bring back the fake cubemap reflections, they're so nostalgic :)
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