Forest Track

Re: Forest Track

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 24 Mar 2018, 18:37

@Alayan: Thank you for your intensive testing. It helps me a lot to improve the track.

Alayan {l Wrote}:In the non-village path in S, it's possible to go under the barrier in the second curve. That's very annoying, as you need to rescue the kart. I'd suggest to change the barriers to make sure you can't go under them. Also in that same curve, maybe smooth a bit the road, because once I tried to skid and my kart literally flew over the barrier.


I changed the first point, now you can't go under the barrier any more. I have worked on the second point but it needs to be tested.

Here is the latest WIP version of the track. (the alternative route over the hill is not completed yet and won't be counted). https://www.dropbox.com/s/1kzp0h73643y8 ... t.zip?dl=0

Alayan {l Wrote}:I like a lot the trees moving with the wind. It makes things lively. However, I noticed a number of trees which are not in full 3D but are made of two planes in X. From far and from certain angle, it may look ok, but from closer approach, the difference is very clear. 3D tree are much betters.


Where exactly did you see these trees? I can't make all the trees in full 3D, they're too many. (At the moment I have zirka 1000 in full 3D 6000 as an X and 6000 in 2D). I have tried to choose the positions so you shouldn't notice they aren't in 3D.

Alayan {l Wrote}:I drove to the monastery on the hill. It's nice, but we can see the walls behind the windows.

I fixed that.

Alayan {l Wrote}:It's also unsettling that one can drive through house walls.

I have remarked this as well and fixed it.

Alayan {l Wrote}:A small issue with the water : it doesn't splash, and you can literally drive in the bed of the river (it should auto-rescue). [...] I suggest improving a bit the look of the cows and animating them a bit (maybe the head going down as if to eat and back up ?), it will make things more lively.

Yes I will do both.

Alayan {l Wrote}:I suggest putting a river under the big bridge.

Good idea. I just wonder where the river goes afterwords...
Maybe I make a lake.

Alayan {l Wrote}:Finally there is one thing which is ugly as hell : the grass. It's in 2D, the texture itself is low-res ; and it really doesn't look good. I strongly suggest to replace it. Maybe something other than grass in places where there are a lot of tree ; and better-looking grass (with some 3D models) in other places. I see you've put a bit of better grass in some places, I really wish you can change it in more.

You're right, I also dont like the grass as forest ground. On other places I like the grass texture but it would be nicer with more 3D grass.


Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:@SvenAndreasBelting: For water I would suggest you watch this tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CR_M_oyNPk&index=11&list=PLhvaM7uJr1PADEdcS3MGl7YZFFkWMJnKe (it's in German)

Thank you for the tip. But I know about this video. I have shown him the skills to do that video :D

Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:you could also include some birds flying around.

Nice idea.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Alayan » 24 Mar 2018, 23:34

I notice you also put a track preview picture. Good. But for a "black forest" track, wouldn't it make more sense to feature a forest section of the track ?

And well done for all the fixes.

Various notes :

- I'd rather put the new nitros in the upper road orthogonally to the road. The ability to take to at once makes it too easy to get a lot. Or maybe reduces a bit what's in the dead tree, because two big cans give as much nitro as 6 small cans. This means someone going first on this path can grab 8 small cans worth of nitro.
- The monastery has no doors.
- I can't test it exactly given it's not finished, but it seems to me that the monastery road may take slightly too much time compared to the lower road.
- What's that weird white thing on the first bridge ? I could only think of snow, but it doesn't fit at all, and it hampers driving.
- I can't seem to go into the air in the curve you smoothed, the fix looks good.
- You have made it more easy to drive over the railtrack. It makes the portions with the nitros easier to get and a real alternative. Though 7 small cans worth of nitro may be a bit much here too ? (Though I shall note that it's only accessible from the lower path)
- I see you improved a lot the fields. Nice ! The tractor seems maybe a bit big and weird on that small and hilly field though. Maybe downscaling it slightly ?
- The flowers and 3D grass help a lot in prairie places. I'm glad you agree about the forest ground and will do something to it.
- [Edit : I think I have seen a part where you tried a new forest ground. Imo, it's too clear. A forest ground should be darker I think]
- [Edit : The arrows in reverse are not reverted as they should]

For the X trees, you seem to have forgotten about driving in reverse.

I could only notice those which are too visible in normal race :

Image
Image

But in reverse, there are also those, much more obvious :

Image
Image
Image

(This last screenshot also features on the right the grass I dislike. The one with a "rough" effect giving some 3D seems to have the same texture but looks better)

Among the 3D trees, those with the orange/red big round leafs have branches and leafs who seem slightly too geometrical imho.

Driving in reverse and going off track in a curve (in a way an overspeeding player might), I saw this :

Image

And coming back, this :

Image

(Also, have you seen my last post in the previous page ?)
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Mr.XX99 » 25 Mar 2018, 17:01

I just turned up the graphics settings for this track, the performance was not so good (thanks to my weak PC), but WOW, this track looks more amazing than I had imagined and the water looks great (in most places) :)

Here is my feedback for the latest version:

- I had a problem when unzipping the track because there is a water.spm and a WATER.spm in there, there was a warning that this file already exists and if I want to replace it. so I only was able to keep one of this.
This is maybe the reason for the bad looking water I found (see screenshots)

- I made many screenshots showing some things I noticed. can be found there: https://imgur.com/a/6jL0C (there is a short description under every picture)

- I found a bug when driving in reverse: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RfJ7Re ... sp=sharing
when you drive along the track the kart-canon takes you to the upper path even when you're driving left of the ramp

- And also in reverse the tunnel after the ramp could maybe also be marked with a sign, that you should not drive in (like I suggested for the other tunnel, see screenshots)

- and some things already noticed by Alayan

- when driving through the canyon the lap still does not count, but I think you know that
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Alayan » 25 Mar 2018, 21:13

Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:I just turned up the graphics settings for this track, the performance was not so good (thanks to my weak PC), but WOW, this track looks more amazing than I had imagined and the water looks great (in most places) :)

I did the same yesterday, and yes, with graphics to the max it's beautiful even if I get only 15 FPS. There are 260K poly in view in places. That's not more than Candela City though, so it shouldn't be too much.

In one of your screenshots, you point at the facts that there are pointy peaks. What bothers me more when looking there is the emptiness. I'd prefer to have my view obscured by trees than seeing far away a vast empty area and that the forest is much smaller than it seems when we are in it.

That's true in some other places. We can feel that the place has bounds, rather than the feeling of it being in a small part of an infinite world.

Image

Here, it would look better without the left empty peak at all and with the right one smoothed and with some pretend low-poly trees.

It would be good too if the anti-OOB invisible walls were matched with something to make them more "natural".

In the place shown by the picture above, a simple field (to the left of the kart) with a barrier on the railroad side may do it well.

The right side of the road close to the start is also very empty :

Image

PS. : egg hunt will be amazing on this track.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Mr.XX99 » 25 Mar 2018, 21:42

fount out what the white thing on the first bridge is :D
Image
Playing SuperTuxKart on my Windows 10 Laptop, my mobile phone and hopefully soon on my Anroid TV :)
(profile picture from John Tuggle URL: https://www.flickr.com/photos/22565768@N04/4454921691 License: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/ picture was edited by me)
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Alayan » 25 Mar 2018, 21:54

Indeed ! I got there and I see it clapping. However, in the version I got, there is another white thing to the left of it (from the pov of your screenshot). Maybe it has been updated between your download of the track and mine. (EDIT : seems it hasn't changed though. Strange)
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Re: Forest Track

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 26 Mar 2018, 21:18

Alayan {l Wrote}:- The monastery has no doors.
- I can't test it exactly given it's not finished, but it seems to me that the monastery road may take slightly too much time compared to the lower road.

To the doors: yes I will do it.
To the monastery road: what a shame, you're right. Especially while driving over the hill is more difficult.
Maybe it will be equalized if I put some nitros on the road.


Alayan {l Wrote}:- What's that weird white thing on the first bridge ? I could only think of snow, but it doesn't fit at all, and it hampers driving.

It doesn't belong to the track, I just forgot to delete it.


Alayan {l Wrote}:The tractor seems maybe a bit big and weird on that small and hilly field though. Maybe downscaling it slightly ?

Yes this looks better. Good idea.

Alayan {l Wrote}: (Also, have you seen my last post in the previous page ?)

Yes I've seen it. I have worked on it and it seems to be fixed.


Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:I just turned up the graphics settings for this track, the performance was not so good (thanks to my weak PC), but WOW, this track looks more amazing than I had imagined and the water looks great (in most places) :)

Thanks


Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:- I had a problem when unzipping the track because there is a water.spm and a WATER.spm in there, there was a warning that this file already exists and if I want to replace it. so I only was able to keep one of this.
This is maybe the reason for the bad looking water I found (see screenshots)

- I made many screenshots showing some things I noticed. can be found there: https://imgur.com/a/6jL0C (there is a short description under every picture)

Thanks for all these important informations.


Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:- And also in reverse the tunnel after the ramp could maybe also be marked with a sign, that you should not drive in (like I suggested for the other tunnel, see screenshots)

Said and done
screenshot.jpg


Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:- when driving through the canyon the lap still does not count, but I think you know that

I think you didn't use the latest version of the track. In the latest version the canyon doesn't
exist any more.

Alayan {l Wrote}:In one of your screenshots, you point at the facts that there are pointy peaks. What bothers me more when looking there is the emptiness. I'd prefer to have my view obscured by trees than seeing far away a vast empty area and that the forest is much smaller than it seems when we are in it.

OK I will try.


Alayan {l Wrote}:PS. : egg hunt will be amazing on this track.

You mean it? I think the track is far too big.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Alayan » 27 Mar 2018, 11:29

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:To the monastery road: what a shame, you're right. Especially while driving over the hill is more difficult.
Maybe it will be equalized if I put some nitros on the road.

Nitro may help to balance, but they are not everything. Maybe a few small cans on the monastery road and removing the three cans close to each other on the lower road (they are too easy to get together). What can probably be redone is the way the monastery road descends towards the finish line. By making it more direct, you can probably improve the time it takes to drive it by 2 seconds, though I'm not sure if it will be enough by itself.

Just driving on grass over the hill to the other side of the monastery was faster for me IIRC, which is another issue.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:
Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:- And also in reverse the tunnel after the ramp could maybe also be marked with a sign, that you should not drive in (like I suggested for the other tunnel, see screenshots)

Said and done
screenshot.jpg


How the train is supposed to pass though ?

Also, I think I forgot to mention it, but I didn't see the train in the second version you shared. Which is a shame, as I found it was done excellently.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:
Alayan {l Wrote}:PS. : egg hunt will be amazing on this track.

You mean it? I think the track is far too big.


Well, I'd say that part of the fun. An easy egg hunt were everything is easy to find is not that fun. Though I'd admit that if you lack one, searching across the whole track to find it may become tedious. Not worse than volcano island which currently has an egg hunt, though.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby QwertyChouskie » 03 Apr 2018, 21:56

You may consider using the grass textures from https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-cod ... -350553974
Not a dev, but a huge fan of STK!
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