Zen garden [final version :) ]

[hiker]

You must export the track before playing. And yes, it is in the group "beta"

And I think you also need a recent svn version, not 0.7*.

Cheers,
Joerg

[samuncle]

The second beta of zen garden

Screenshoot (when a picture can say a thousand words)



You can download here

[samuncle]

The new version of zen garden

[Funto]

Yeah, I love the tea house!

I'm sure this track would look much better with lightmaps, is this possible in STK?

[asciimonster]

*drool* Don't tease us so much with these great screenshots!

When is it available at stkaddons?

[Crendgrim]

*drool* Don't tease us so much with these great screenshots!

When is it available at stkaddons?

QFT.
Release it! Please!

[samuncle]

you can download it

[STKRudy85]

I think You should put in value your waterfall
You can place some bamboo with a panda maybe ? (you can use my bear , changing the texture)

[Funto]

As I said on IRC, I really like it, it's nice to race in it and pleasant to watch, plus it's a Japanese garden \o/

Here are my remarks:
- the part under rocks needs light shafts, but that's more work on the programming part I think
- some parts need to get shadows (lightmaps!), particularly around the basis of the trees
- the AI karts are having a very hard time with the red bridge (and it's hard for the player, particularly because of the frustrating physics :/)
- the lap counting does not work, I'm always at lap 1 out of 3...
- well there are no boxes nor nitro, but that's to come I suppose ^^
- there is this big shortcut and no slowdown...
- as said Rudy, you could probably emphasize a bit more the waterfalling, and add particles to it
- the sky cylinder does not go down enough, so when falling, there is a visual glitch

Otherwise, very good job

[Narann]

Very cool! My remarks:
- The first seconds of the race are very very good, nothing to say, very good!
- The first little gate had some prob when you pass on it sometime and touch borders maybe prob with collisions wich stop you directly! This is a hard to drive here so you should find a way to avoid the player to be stopped.
- I really like the tunnel with "natural wndows" in the rock. Maybe
- Texture contacts between the road and the rock are maybe the better of all tracks! Very well done the effect work perfectly.
- I like how you simulate "glow" on lantern but they still to dark I think. Give them more yellow ambiant.
- In the loop, there is a "artefact" in the center. But it is too small. Remove it and make a real temple here!
- In the loop again there is a rock wich you pass under. This is a good idea but IMHO you should add some edge to this rock, near the road level. There is too low def here.
- When you get out, after the loop, there is... Nothing. No tree on the right, no mountains in front. You should add some things here.
- There is no light in your race so some karts (KDE) don't have little variations on them. A light, even little and not strong should be obligated in each track I think. ^^
- And the mood is too stormy I think.

[Funto]

I just agree with Narann

As for Konqi, I think the problem is inherent to the kart...

[Narann]

The waterfall is not very visible.
Maybe the rocks (or just a little part) near it should be less bright and more black to let the water be more visible.

[Kinsu]

A very good quality track for STK : beautiful environment, interesting road shape, and only a few polys

Some suggestions :

- Japanese music ! (if I find one which can fit, I'll tell)
- For the arrival line : a torii. (EDIT : or it could also be great on the right of the road, just after the end of the cave)



- To add a little to the decor : some lamps like those :



Very very good work !

[Funto]

I totally second Kinsu's suggestions!

[Narann]

The arrival line is a very good idea!

[Auria]

Very good ideas Kinsu

[Turtle]

Replace secret garden with this one, and make secret garden an addon. No offense to the creator of secret garden, but I find it annoying and a bit boring to drive (nothing really interesting to look at). Zen Garden on the other hand; is rather elegant, and looks like a nice smooth track.

[Kinsu]

Secret garden is one of the most beautiful map to me, and is rather difficult so I don't agree with you when you say it's boring (have you tried in difficult level mode ?).
It would be a big loss for STK to take off this track from the game

[Funto]

I would rather go for keeping secret garden, which is nice (and practical for making tests ) but modify it to make it more interesting. I don't know yet how to do that but I think there are possibilities

[Turtle]

Secret garden is one of the most beautiful map to me, and is rather difficult so I don't agree with you when you say it's boring (have you tried in difficult level mode ?).
It would be a big loss for STK to take off this track from the game

Yes that is the reason why I find it annoying.
A difficult track to drive on, and objects around the race track are plain or boring.
At least, in Old Mine you have so many interesting objects alongside the track (running mine kart). I think it is a bit biased of you folks (game developers) to say you rather keep secret garden than zen garden. I don't want to start a flame war, but comparing the 2 one just looks a lot better than the other.

How I rate tracks:
Awesome:
-Track is challenging, but not too difficult to make you want to quit. Basically, you laugh or smile when you screw up because you know you could have avoided it (using nitro in hardcore fort magma tunnel).
-Track has beautiful objects alongside the track, or the track is built in an interesting way (The Cube & Star track).
A track that meets this qualification? Coyote Canon, Crescent Crossing, and current Fort Magma.

Good/Okay:
-Track
-Track is challenging, but not too difficult to make you want to quit. Basically, you laugh or smile when you screw up because you know you could have avoided it ( nitro on skyline twist bridge).
or (only has one of these)
-Track has beautiful objects alongside the track, or the track is built in an interesting way (Scotland).
A track that meets this qualification? On an iceberg, hacienda, and Tux tolleyway.

Bad/Poor:
-Track is too challenging to point you want to restart after a screw up or simply avoid it (old mine & secret garden).
-Track has no interesting objects alongside it, and the track is either repetitive or predictable (Shifting Sands & Secret garden).
A track that meets this qualification? Secret Garden. At least shifting sands is easy.

[Auria]

Just to clarify, no dev at this point expressed that they want to keep secret garden and reject zen garden

0.7.2 contains secret garden for the simple reason that zen garden was not ready in time. For 0.7.3 we will see, I think it is very likely that zen garden will be added

[Crendgrim]

You see Crescent Crossing and Coyote Canyon as "good" tracks? Another proof for how different opinions can be. I'd call them the worst respectively second worst tracks included in the main game, while I love Secret Garden.

[Arthur]

I agree with Crendgrim.

But this is a little off-topic. Let's see what the project leaders decide; with the in-game addon manager, it's not such a big deal as it used to be.

[Turtle]

Just to clarify, no dev at this point expressed that they want to keep secret garden and reject zen garden

0.7.2 contains secret garden for the simple reason that zen garden was not ready in time. For 0.7.3 we will see, I think it is very likely that zen garden will be added

I said they preferred one over the over (don't want it replaced); when just by looking at the pictures the track looks a lot better, let alone in-game.

@crendgrim
I gave my reason why I think the track is poor and the others are better; on there hand, you just just said you loved it (just cause?).

As arthur said though, this is off-topic, so I will stop giving my reasons why I think it should be replaced.

For the future, have you folks considered doing a poll for the tracks that will be shipped with the game as defaults? It could be the 7 most popular are implemented in the game, while the rest are add-ons. I think this might also motivate track devs to jazz-up their tracks (kind of like a contest).

[Auria]

Well we're a bit weary of polls, the cause being that someone made a not-so-good track but gets all their friends to vote for it, etc. Or some beginners vote down more difficult tracks while long-time players vote down easy tracks, etc... IMO polls are very difficult to manage