New iconset

Re: New iconset

Postby 0zone0ne » 12 Sep 2016, 05:24

I prefer Pidgins 1 and 5 as well. I don't really like the eyebrows or the puffy cheeks myself.

For Xue, maybe you could try combining your two propositions? One of them has a big head and little ears, and the other is vice versa. I'm thinking something in the middle would be a good option.

There's something off about ElePHPant to me, it looks like its eyes are bulging out of its head... Do you think its pupils/irises could be made smaller, and its eyes moved around to the sides of its head a bit? I'm also not sure about the angry eyebrows, as none of the other icons have them.

Beastie's eyes also seem a bit close together, and his face seems too tall - his mouth part and his nose could both be squashed upward a bit, resulting in a more circular head. This would also make his eyes sit further down on his face relative to his other features.

I think maybe Tux's beak could be moved further down his face, so it doesn't cover quite as much of his eyes. His pupils/irises also seem too large to me.

Lastly, I think Puffy's eyebrows and half-closed eyelids are a bit too much... Perhaps the eyelids could be removed, and the eyebrows toned down a bit? It might require a bit of experimentation. The mouth and the eyes are pretty far apart vertically, I think the eyes could be moved down the face so that they are just above the mouth (so that they're pretty much halfway down the face). Just as with ElePHPant and Tux, I think Puffy's pupils/irises look too large. The half-closed mouth with teeth showing looks a bit awkward to me, could the mouth be closed completely?

I really like the new Wilber, and Gavroche and Gnu are both very well done! This is pretty nit-picky, but maybe Gnu could be looking less downward, and more straight ahead? I'm imagining what it would look like on the HUD during a race and it seems odd that he would be looking downward.

Something else that may be worth investigating is the removal of coloured irises in the character's eyes. This might reduce the level of detail in the icons and simplify them, but I can't really visualise it myself and it would require some exploration on your part.

Keep up the good work! I hope to see the set completed and used in-game. :)
Last edited by 0zone0ne on 12 Sep 2016, 13:59, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: New iconset

Postby Ludsky » 12 Sep 2016, 08:53

I Love your new Icon of Pidgin, it's perfect ;)
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Re: New iconset

Postby jymis » 28 Dec 2016, 17:04

Iconset updated (see first post and click to enlarge):

- added Adiumy
- added Amanda
- updated Elephpant
- a bit updated Puffy (eyebrows less dark)
- added Suzanne
- updated Tux

- planned new others
- added [eviltux successor] (rename planned, i've listed some ideas, and we'll vote in due time)
- added Penny
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Re: New iconset

Postby Ludsky » 31 Dec 2016, 13:20

It's very good, good job ;)
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Re: New iconset

Postby jymis » 07 Feb 2017, 12:39

Ok, i've updated icons with new Sara.
(see pictures below)

I've committed it too soon, even if i wasn't sure about some details, i have to recognize this. I apologize.

Now i need you to tell me (if you like it or not, obviously, but more than that) what do you like or dislike particularly about it.
Because i can improve it. Again, you can understand (or already understood) that we have to unify look of icons. Some of mine were added. And i work with precise lines in mind. The old ones differ a bit or a lot. Especially Sara's one.
Just saying that you don't like it, or you prefer the old one, don't help. How do you think i spend time for all that stuff i propose ?
The main argument of people who already said they don't like it was : the old one is more cartoonish. That's all, i know nothing more.

For my part, i'm not sure about mouth i've did. Maybe close it and just smile. What do you think ?
less blur shadows ? no pink cheeks ? simplify the nose ? Have a real opinion for godsake ! or you really want the game to stay basic ?
Why i don't make all hese changes myself ? I'm not going to make a lot of proposals alone. Having your precise opinion makes me spend less time that i can spend on other stuff for STK (like helping samuncle on Ravenbridge mansion, deve on android UI, finish the new Elephpant kart, …).
(and don't tell others i'm a troll -i'm here to help the game improve too, with my skills (my experience, so my point of view of course)- thanks to the person who's going to identify themself)

I want to share with you another point of view i've received. My grandparents one (i live at their home since a while, because of a money problem).
a short description of them:
They lived on a barge before getting a house.
My grandmother had some time for culture and art, not a lot, but she had. She's not an artist at all, she don't understand all that i do, but she used to knit, stitch. After the barge she was a fish vendor.
After the barge, my grandfather worked at car factory (like i currently do before working in video games industry again). He like computer but cannot use it correctly. He spend time making novice montage of pictures of him and put that on facebook.
In retirement they both spend too much time watching tv…
their opinion about Sara's icons:
I've said nothing about icons author or use (only after they chose). And i've asked them to be generous in their explanations and that they won't be judged for that.
My grand mother choosed my version.
She said that she was prettier and mature. The old one looks like a child. (be adult seems to me logic to be an experienced sorceress and princess, but everyone think what he wants ; btw it seems that Sara is not a child anymore if we look at ther underwear)
My grandfather prefered the old one.
He had diffculties to explain his opinion. Just saying it looks more simple, and he prefers the smile. My grandmother knew that he was going to choose the old one. My grandfather didn't know what would be his wife choice…

You seem to like my new "karts" and some of my other stuff.
But if I adhere to the logic of people who prefer old stuff because it's cartooner, my vehicles are incoherent and have nothing to do in STK.

Sorry about the speech, it's maybe because i was born french :p
So i like arguments, i like listen to people explanations, for things to improve, for people to be happier.
Again i agree that i should not have update Sara icon while helping about Sara the racer beams.
But if you just say 'no i don't like' (i feel like repeating myself) and remove it, i'm going to feel demoralized and do something else (currently after my job at the factory i spend most of my free time on STK instead on working on my future open source game company…).

Children in all that mess ?
Of course some children will choose the old one, and some children will choose the new one (changed or not).
I always believe children need good stuff to grow up with a lot of experience and good values, for them to be able to really change the world and be happy once adults. I hate when we try to keep child as they are, like they weren't smart like us.
I work on a game that is firstly intended for children. While studying and choosing economic model for the game, i've found a part about children. And it confirmed what i think: children like playing video games which grow up their skills, because they want to have good skills, to do like adults, to do as well or better, to stop being judged inferior.
So yep, i'm a bit angry that you keep wanting old really basic art, sometimes saying 'it's for children'. Omg. Let them watching TV a lot of time too ?

Beforehand i want to say something for people who's not sure about earrings (that don't mean i'm opposed to remove it).
I've add below some concepts of Sara. They are made by my exgirlfriend (i've credited her while updating Sara the last time). These concepts helped Samuncle when he wanted to add Sara to the game. All that story is already old now. So i've added earrings to the 2d icon, and of course planned to add it to the 3d when we'll update it one day.
If i've put those earrings that we can see on the illustration, it's by respect for that person that i use to know, worked with me, and helped me to improve my art, especially about colors. And i confess: we're both perced :p
Why crescent white so ? Reference to the original Sara.

Thanks for your time.

let's exchange !
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Re: New iconset

Postby charlie » 07 Feb 2017, 14:24

In the rather gorgeous concepts she has long hair (very talented ex-girlfriend btw). It looks like short hair in the icon.

I would probably try to represent that long hair in the icon, perhaps by having it sweep around and under her chin. I also prefer the greener hair decoration in the concept to the one used in the icon (which looks both blander and needlessly detailed ith the picture on it).
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Re: New iconset

Postby samuncle » 07 Feb 2017, 15:11

Hi, here is a (hopefully) quick answer

1) I told you while I prefer the old icon set, I wouldn't be against redoing them however it's important to have high quality icons, the current ones might not be perfect but they look funny. I personally wouldn't spend time redoing icons since we have bigger priorities but I can't prevent other from doing it.

2) I know it's hard to have a work especially when you invested time rejected but that's part of the life. For the icon of Sara, we agreed the old one looks better. Now to go into the details, I'm not sure what's wrong, maybe some sort of uncanny valley, humans representations are notoriously difficult because we evolved to recognize faces.

Sadly I have a bigger experience with landscapes, architecture and buildings, so it's also difficult for me to pin point why I don't like it.

3) Try to write less, because it's at risk of TL;DR. It seems you take a lot personally, you shouldn't especially with art because everybody's opinions are different. Take a step back, maybe work on something else and then start again.

4) I personally would prefer to see you working on 3D objects or 3D karts like the elephpant, but I of course can't force you to do something.

BTW: The concept art is beautiful. We should one day do a concept art page on our website and put all concepts we did for the game!
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Re: New iconset

Postby farrer » 07 Feb 2017, 17:37

@jymis

First off, I liked almost all your new icons: they are very well done and they feel artistically as a unit.

Saying that, regarding Sara's new icon, it's some artistic 'unit with the other icons' that is missing for me. I liked it, but it just doesn't fit with other icons. Note that I'm not comparing it with the previous Sara's icon to see each one is better / worse (and I agree the old one doesn't fit too), but with all other icons you've made, and it seems not unified or almost on a different style when side by side with them.

(please note that I'm no artist at all, so I'll try to explain the best I can what I 'feel' is missing / not at the same style with the others).

The trace (by 'trace' I mean border pencil's width or anything like that) is too much thin than the used on your other icons: compare Sara's eyes, nose and mouth borders with the borders of the same elements on any other icon you've made. Also, the eyes are too small compared to the other ones. Those two things are maybe what is missing for a "more cartoonish" look like the other icons. AFAIK, cartoons have exaggerated traces, a caricature after all, and this Sara's icon isn't a caricature, but almost a one-by-one representation of Sara.
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Re: New iconset

Postby MTres19 » 07 Feb 2017, 22:19

The thing that pushed me away from the new icon I think was mainly the expression. Giving the characters more "detailed" (not sure if that's the best word because it's more than just the art style that is much more detailed---natural or sophisticated might be better words.) facial expressions is one of the major changes in your new icon set. The characters' faces seem more expressive---rather than a simple smile like the old Beastie icon, your Beastie's smile looks slightly sneaky and fits the character well. However, up to this point all your icons have had one thing in common---they look friendly. Your new Sara icon has a very pretty but cold and austere facial expression. She looks like a very strict sorceress rather than a kind and benevolent one. I hope that's specific, like you requested.

PS: I do like the rest of your new icons. Please don't be discouraged.
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Re: New iconset

Postby Alayan » 07 Feb 2017, 22:59

As I also rejected the new icon when samuncle asked on the IRC, I'll take the step of explaining why.

First, your new icon gives me the feeling Sara has a ton of makeup. The old one doesn't. The nice concept art you uploaded doesn't either : a skin color and lipps color more like the concept art sara at the left would be better imho. Don't like the earrings but that's not truly important.

I'd also agree with MTres19 the expression should be redone, though I wouldn't say it's "strict" right now.
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Re: New iconset

Postby Auria » 08 Feb 2017, 03:20

I would echo the sentiment about the expression seeming too "stern". Also, I would like to point out that redoing icons, as mentionned previously, is a fairly low priority effort for us. There are many other tasks involving modelling that are, in my opinion, in much more need of work than the icons. Going for the things we actively want redone (like the older, uglier tracks) rather than the iconset we're already mostly satisfied with, would make your contributions really, really welcome. Of course in the end you decide what you work on but I definitely don't think the kart icons is the thing that most needs our energy... To give you an idea we get lots of complaints about older, uglier tracks - but complaints about icons are a lot rarer (almost inexistent)
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