Wilber 2016

Wilber 2016

Postby jymis » 06 May 2016, 18:01

wilber_wip_06052016.jpg


So, as some of you noticed, i'm working on a new version of Wilber.

It's always in WIP. The main texture miss some details.

I have some technical questions :

* how do you link AO/gloss if STK can't handle more than one applied UV map ?

* does the gloss map equals to metallic ?

* does STK take care of normalMap today ?

* can we change the coordinates of the item's spawn on the kart ?

* that seems that my nitro emitter's position change, i haven't check how yet, but maybe you can tell me ?

Thank you ! Kisses ! See you !

@samuncle : i know, i have to work on a specific track, but given my personal situation is not yet stable, i focused on a a kart that i wanted to work for so long and which could be intesresting for my book by the same time ; i think that i'll be available after june, at the latest in september...
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby l-homme-d-action » 07 May 2016, 14:47

Hi,
As far as i know, the normal map was messed'up on cars ,they became invisible .
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby XGhost » 07 May 2016, 15:57

Nice to see some progress with your protect!
jymis {l Wrote}:
  • can we change the coordinates of the item's spawn on the kart ?
  • that seems that my nitro emitter's position change, i haven't check how yet, but maybe you can tell me?

Unfortunately, you can only change the position of the nitro emitter. I think the placement of the other attachments can not be affected manually.

jymis {l Wrote}:
  • does STK take care of normalMap today ?

Yes and No. Yes, normal maps are supported in STK, but no, only for tracks and library objects. Someone should correct me if I'm mistaken, but normal maps applied to karts won't render within the current state of the game.

jymis {l Wrote}:
  • does the gloss map equals to metallic ?

Not directly. Adding a gloss map to your object just means controlling the specularity and glossiness of the material manually with an image/texture. So you are able to create metallic like material (amonng other things). I will get a little bit more specific further below.

jymis {l Wrote}:
  • how do you link AO/gloss if STK can't handle more than one applied UV map ?

As you noticed correctly, STK cannot handle multiple UV maps. So it uses just one and the same for all maps -> texture, gloss map and normal map. That means for you, that when you create gloss or normal maps, you have to be aware of the correct UV coordinates. Thereof results that your gloss maps just differs from your texture by its color. Example:
Image
You can see that the positions of the UV faces has not changed -> the gloss map is equal positioned as the texture. But the color is different:
STK Wiki {l Wrote}:
  • Red channel: is the specular map. It means how shiny a surface is
  • Green channel: is the gloss map. It means how the shininess behave. For instance a wet surface will have a high gloss coefficient, while rubber or latex might be a bit more hazy.
  • Blue channel: is the emission map. It means how much the material will emit light. If the light intensity is strong enough it will start to bloom (glow). Important notice: This is only localized and will affect only THE TEXTURE. Not the surrounding area. It's not an equivalent of point light. Usually it's used to force bloom in some particular cases like neons, light bulbs, lanterns, etc.

This is the declaration of gloss maps from the SuperTuxKart Wiki. Let me split it up a little:
The colors of the gloss map defines the material of the textured object. A material can have three parameters: specularity, glossines and emission. Since every color in a texture is a combination of red, green and blue, STK just interprets every color channel as the strength of the specific parameter. Example:
Black areas in your gloss map lead to dull material (amount of colors: red = 0, green = 0, blue = 0)
Red areas in your gloss map create a very shiny material. The more deep the red color is, the more brighter your material will reflect.
Green areas in your gloss map will be glossy/plastic like. The more deep the green color is, the more glossier your material will be.
Blue areas in your gloss map will let your texture emit its color. The more deep the blue color is, ... ah you see where this is going.
You can mix colors of course: yellow = red + green amount, purple = blue + red amount, white, orange... whatever you like.
Have also a look at this image.

How to tell STK to use a gloss map for a texture?
In Blender, you should see the "STK Image Properties" label somewhere in your inspector:
Image
You can there link your gloss / normal maps to your texture. You don't have to open it in Blender nor edit the UVs somehow. Just copy the gloss and normal map you have linked into your kart folder, so STK will find it.
:!: It is good practise to name the gloss and normal map files sensible according your texture filename. Let's say filname.png is your texture -> I would go with filename_gloss.png for your gloss map and filename_normal.png for your normal map.

Tips for making gloss maps
You will soon realise that making gloss maps is a pain and incredible time-consuming ;) . The only way to test your created gloss maps is to test them ingame. Meaning: you have to start STK, view your car on a track, close STK, edit map, save map, start STK, ..... over and over again. There is no preview option for now. Also, the look of gloss map really depends on the lighting conditions of the environment, so consider testing them on different tracks.
What I always do is: move all karts from STK's data to a different location which prevents STK from reloading them on every startup (making it much faster to start). In Photoshop or GIMP or wathever you use, I usually start with the original texture of the object and turn the saturation to zero (making it black / white). Then I fill it with a dark red color (some specularity) as a base for my gloss map. From there I experiment with lighter red colors and green colors (multiplication) until I'm happy with the result in STK.
Just find a way you're comfortable with.

I hope this answer will help you moving on. I'm excited to see with what you come up!
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby jymis » 07 May 2016, 19:59

Thanks for your answers guys.

Arf, too bad for items. The problem is dynamite appears inside the cap of the kart-tube ^^'

Some other questions :

* About AO, i don't see the related field into "STK Image Properties". Is it me ?
* Why my Wilber's version appears in the dark at the character selector's menu ?
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby benau » 08 May 2016, 03:26

* Why my Wilber's version appears in the dark at the character selector's menu ?

You will need git STK version/ wait for 0.9.2 release
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby Auria » 11 May 2016, 00:05

Hi,

there should be no problems using normal maps on karts now. Just specify a normal map image as shown in the screenshot above, under "glossmap"

With regards to AO, not sure what you mean. STK has SSAO, which is a post-processing ambient occlusion effect that's automatic and there is nothing you need to do about it.
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby jymis » 17 Jul 2016, 11:17

Hi all,

I am testing glossMap and i encounter several difficulties.

* i have downloaded the 0.9.2 and my Wilber's still shadowed in the character selector screen
* gloss seems different in that screen and in a race
* that was like on the screenshots with my first glossMap, so i've changed it, but nothing change. I've also tried to delete the gloss, but it generates one himself (considering materials.xml i guess). No matter the change i did, eyes are always like light beacons, Wilber fur is metallic (even if with black on the map). When i've deleted the glossMap in the folder, i remember that the cap's tube turn to white, nothing else striked me. Maybe there's a second folder where my first glossMap is duplicated ?

The resistant issues :

* my empty for nitro emitter always not considered
* strange points or lines appearing (you can see some of them on the screenshot '14) on the head, on wheel, on the tube's cap and the tube's neck.

Thanks to consider these problems, for Wilber sake ;)
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farm-2016.07.17_11.55.22.png
farm-2016.07.17_11.55.14.png
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menu-2016.07.17_11.54.53.png
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby tuxkartdriver » 17 Jul 2016, 20:38

Hi :)

Nice job!

No matter the change i did, eyes are always like light beacons, Wilber fur is metallic.


Maybe you should apply a material or shader specially only for Wilber eyes and skin. Case, your Wilber texture be the same that you use for your kart, certainly, the eyes will shine, because gloss map always produces a shining color effect, mainly if the color is bluish or even white. Try to make a separated texture for Wilber with his eyes.

Try to use orange or red tones for your gloss map, it will produce a good gloss for your kart texture. Avoid to use blue tones or white if you don´t want your kart parts shining like a lamp turned on :)

Don´t use your normal map texture as gloss map.

1° - Copy the same texture and name it ¨your_name_gloss.jpg¨ or ¨png¨
2° - Open it on your image editor, and apply orange filter to your gloss texture, for all the parts you want a gloss effect.
3° - Inside your blender panel, enter your gloss texture complete name. Don´t forget to write your gloss file name with its complete file extension be it .jpg or .png.

See as I did for Las Dunas Tv Van:
Attachments
van gloss.jpg
The same texture, but with a orange tone filter applied:
arena_TV_Van.jpg
Normal texture applied to material:
Menu.jpg
The Menu is shown like this way:
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby jymis » 17 Jul 2016, 22:03

Even when i turn the eyes uv islet to black ? If we are forced to do separate materials, can i conclude that the shader is flawed ?

Normals ? err no, normal map doesn't seem to work for karts anyway.

I join my maps (gloss is wip, that's why some parts are grey or have too much white, but you can notice eyes are actually back, and there's not blue)

If you look well at screenshots (the first and the last), you can note a part for the blue paint that is not affected by light like the rest of the kart. The cutting of that part match with uvMap, and, i thought, to the first glossMap that i've exported, because i had just colorified after the desaturate, without painting all the uv islet into the same red-orange tone.
That's why i've asked if there's a folder where my first glossMap should have be duplicated automatically when launching the game.

Thanks for helping.
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby tuxkartdriver » 18 Jul 2016, 05:07

Hi,

As far as I know, there isn´t other created folder when you export your kart.

Follow these steps to eliminate any mistake possibility in order to observe if your kart texture changes or not.

1 - Import and apply again your updated normal texture to your kart material.
2 - Go to the gloss map property in the menu, and insert inside the gloss map blank "the full name + file extension" that you created for gloss.
3 - Export again the kart already containing the gloss map inside your blender kart file, in order to export it with your newest gloss texture applied to your kart.
4 - Go to the Dir where your kart is: ex: C:\Program Files\SuperTuxKart\data\karts\your_kart
5 - Delete the complete old folder you exported before.
6 - Observe if Windows or your OS needs permission to create or to drag your new kart folder inside.
7 - Run again Supertux.
8 - Don´t forget to see if all your updated textures as normal and gloss textures are inside the new created kart folder.
9 - Run again Supertux.

By the way, there are no differences or issues when using stk materials for rendering and exporting a track or a kart. :)
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby Arthur » 19 Jul 2016, 09:22

Just in case, check to see if you have texture compression on in the graphical options, and turn it off if you do. You might see an older compressed version of your texture (should not happen, but just to eliminate possibilities).
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby XGhost » 19 Jul 2016, 14:30

Arthur {l Wrote}:Just in case, check to see if you have texture compression on in the graphical options, and turn it off if you do. You might see an older compressed version of your texture (should not happen, but just to eliminate possibilities).

+1
That was the problem I faced for my first kart. Really annoying when you update your textures several times but the look ingame doesn't change.
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby woompa loompa » 21 Jul 2016, 10:52

Are you going to replace the current kart with this one? Or will we have both of them? Also, why a carrot??
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby 0zone0ne » 21 Jul 2016, 11:47

@woopa loompa
I think it's a paint tube... :lol:
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby woompa loompa » 21 Jul 2016, 12:08

0zone0ne {l Wrote}:@woopa loompa
I think it's a paint tube... :lol:


Oh I see ahah :-) that makes sense
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby jymis » 22 Aug 2016, 14:36

Thanks everybody for help and support !

@arthur
Thanks, that's solved the problem. Indeed it seems that an older compressed version of the texture was picked by the engine. So that's a known issue ?

@woopa loompa
Yay i hope it will replace the current kart.
Obviously current's one is a bit old, so maybe you're thinking that we could keep the actual design and just upgrade models and textures.
But I'm in harmony with idea that 'Super Tux Kart' is just a marketing name (sounds familiar to players), and that we have to not ape Mario Kart entirely even if it's inspired by. For me it's obvious that main Tux's vehicle is a kart, but not for all characters.
Idea of a kart tube featured by Tuxel seems fun to me, I'm attached to. By the way, if people like this one I've planned to make Kiki from Krita with another model from the Kart Tube range. But, in accordance with having multiple karts by character, if any volunteer or the author of that one doesn't finish it, i'll do. Thus Wilber can have 'quickly' two nice karts.
And if it's the carrot feeling which frigthens you, wait finished textures and possibility to play it. ;)

---

I think there is a problem with lighting by camera view.
Default view (backside of the character) you can see the true orange of the kart's main body, and a full gloss influenced orange when in reversed view. (screenshots enclosed)
I wonder that gloss partly working with normals direction. But the difference seems going to far anyway.
What do you think about this ?

---

Always no one has idea about the black spots ? (encircled with green)
And about kart selection screen ? (Gimp always into the dark in spite of 0.9.2)
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby jymis » 23 Aug 2016, 17:06

Some news.

(screens : Wilber turning to his right (rear cam) are older textures, others are from today)

I've also made a new icon for him… And not just for him, I avoid jealousy :D (I'm hesitating for Xue's one)
Mozilla's one is old. I'll update it later. (so you can put your hand on him for a better sight ^^)

Next to do :
* new animations for win and loose
* find from where come the spots (by the way they seem influenced by diffuse/gloss)
* find why my empty for the nitro is not used by the game (always need help for this too).
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stk_new_iconset.png
overworld-2016.08.23_17.40.52.png
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby MTres19 » 23 Aug 2016, 21:25

It's very difficult to help you if you don't upload a recent version of the .blend, textures, and maps. However, about your problems...

- Do you have normal maps for the entire kart?
- Have you tried recalculating normals (Edit mode > select all (A) > Ctrl + N)?
- Is the normal map mostly smooth where the dots are? (My suspicion is that the normals are pointing the wrong way.)
- Are there spots on the gloss map that would correspond to the dots?
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby Auria » 24 Aug 2016, 01:59

Hi, one suggestion I might have is to think of ways to maybe make the back of the kart visually more interesting? there is a lot of great stuff about the kart, but the back of the kart (the part we see the most while driving) is mostly a white cylinder. I don't know how exactly to be honest, but if there was a way to make that part more interesting I think the kart would benefit a lot!
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 24 Aug 2016, 04:25

Auria {l Wrote}:Hi, one suggestion I might have is to think of ways to maybe make the back of the kart visually more interesting? there is a lot of great stuff about the kart, but the back of the kart (the part we see the most while driving) is mostly a white cylinder. I don't know how exactly to be honest, but if there was a way to make that part more interesting I think the kart would benefit a lot!


It's simple: just make the things like they should look :). I'm not mocking, but some people may think that the orange tube is a carrot with wheels and a spare tire covered by a white mantle. Then, make it clear that the object is a paint tube with a cap. IMO, there are two ways to make it more interesting to see: 1. Put a coloured cap that really looks like a paint tube cap; or, 2. Remove the cap and let the threaded exit free to expel a colored jet like a ink in gaseous state. I have a picture quickly and poorly made to show what I mean:
Wilber Kart without cap.png


Not inventing more work, of course, but IMO, I suggest to remake the texture, as planned by the author, but focused on this goal (to let everyone realize that the kart represents a paint tube instead another thing).
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby 0zone0ne » 24 Aug 2016, 05:39

I think the paint tube idea is really great, it fits thematically with the character and doesn't seem out-of-place in the game. But I agree with Auria that the back (and perhaps sides?) could be more visually interesting. IMHO the kart could benefit from some large, cartoony, exaggerated exhaust pipes coming up from the back. I would make some concept art for you but unfortunately I'm not able to right now
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby jymis » 24 Aug 2016, 09:12

Yup, big forgetting. Files enclosed now.
(textures are in playable_wilber)

I don't use a normal map. Some people told me that it don't work yet for karts. I tried and indeed that didn't seem to change something (maybe tested in 0.9.1 at that time).
Plus, as you can see below, my result with Blender is a crap because i'm regular with other softwares and techniques (proprietaries).

I agree for the cap. The white choice was because my better references had a black or a white one, so i thought that a orange one would be too much.
As you can find it (encircled with green) on the normal map, i tried to simulate detail of the edge, my first goal wasn't to let it as poor as now.
If normal map works for karts now, we can benefit from that part of the normal map (and not the crapy rest).
i'm going to try after that reply.

Actually this kart has 3850 tri. I wanted to stay close to the count stated by the kart tutorial. But maybe I can tend toward Sara's poly count ? (10K+) if dev team allows me of course.

I prefer keep the cap and upgrade it. Add FX always working bothers me.
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby Auria » 25 Aug 2016, 00:00

The polygon count in the kart tutorial is probably a bit outdated and should be updated, this was written a few years ago and we have upped our minimal requirements since then.
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby jymis » 29 Aug 2016, 18:11

Auria {l Wrote}:The polygon count in the kart tutorial is probably a bit outdated and should be updated, this was written a few years ago and we have upped our minimal requirements since then.

So, how many ? ^^

---

WIP screenshots
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Re: Wilber 2016

Postby Auria » 30 Aug 2016, 00:10

For "how many", the Sara numbers you mentionned would be a good idea.

And nice work on your WIP for the back of the kart, it's already looking to be a lot more interesting!
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