FreeGameDev

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Hi,

tuxkartdriver {l Wrote}:Since, that the new beta was released, I have been observing, that one of the reasons that makes the Cocoa Temple's track to crash, everytime I tried to play it, is that some files are not listed by some scripts or even that some files are spreaded in different dirs and folders.

I doubt that this is the reason

I am sure, that if all the textures run/load directly from just a specific folder, it will solve some crash problems!

No (at least not if everything else is setup correctly, and there are no bugs, ...). Since the tracks work for most people, I think it is very likely that everything is set up correctly.

Another problem, is that I found some textures which are inside of two levels of folders. I mean, one folder inside of two other folders, as this example I found: "C:\Program Files\SuperTuxKart\data\library\stklib_conifer_a\textures".

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That is correct, these are library objects - i.e. objects shared (potentially at least) among several tracks.

Another one, is that I found out some textures inside "Cocoa Temple" track folder, which are not listed by neither of the scripts of this track: "C:\Program Files\SuperTuxKart\data\tracks\30_chocolate\scene.xml"

They are referenced in the meshes (b3d) files (unless it's an unused texture that was forgotten to be removed ).

If you look at inside the "scene.xml" file, you will see that these following textures: SKY0001.png, SKY0002.png, SKY0003.png and SKY0004.png found inside the "30_chocolate" folder are not listed by "scene.xml" file, while the textures SKY0005.png and SKY0006.png are listed by the "scene.xml".

I have to let samuncle answer this - as mentioned above those might be used in a mesh, or left over ones which should be removed.

Curiously, since that I edited and added these 4 textures mentioned above, to the "scene.xml" file, the Cocoa Temple stopped to crash all the time during the race on the 3°graphical level of configuration. Before this, I only could run on the 1°st and 2°nd graphical level without with just some bug effects! And before that, it was impossible to open the stk engine to play "Cocoa Temple" with the 4°th graphical level, but after that I am able to drive during 20 seconds at least on this track!

Added them to the scene.xml file? How/where/what? If you just listed them in the sky-box XML node, the sky-box entry is invalid and will be ignored by stk (check stdout.log for a message). Which could explain why it works - those rather large sky textures causing a problem with your driver, and they are now ignored.

In my opinion, I think that all the specific textures for each track, as well as all the 3ds objects and all the libraries, should be place inside the track folder! Instead of inside different dirs! I suggest that the programmers let the folder "\SuperTuxKart\data\textures", only should be used to place the textures which are used in common by the tracks as "standard textures" for the stk 0.8.2.

Sharing not only textures but whole meshes is quite important for a consistent look, and to reduce the amount of work our artists need to do (not to mention it saves disk space) - for example, artists can make a better model of a tree, and automatically all tracks using that tree will have the better looking tree (without any manual changes).

Many different dirs for textures, 3ds and track's scripts for the same track, may be causing crashes and bugs, and until delays of framerates too! Some OS as Windows or Linux sometimes find problems in reading long names, long dir paths, but also find problems in reading files which are placed inside a folder that is inside other folders!

Aeh - where did you get this from? There is certainly no connection between framerate and number of directories read, or length of paths, or directory nesting levels (well, there are upper limits for paths etc, but we are not hitting those). But I am happy to learn, if you could quote some references (ok, I have dealt with one application that needed to be installed in a directory of length 1 (!), since otherwise the overall path was too long - but that was a very badly designed application, and STK is not that badly designed).

Why "ALL THE KNOWN TRACKS" don't crash for me when I play them on the 5°th graphical level? The answer is easy: "Because, all the main "textures", that each one of the tracks use as well as 3d objects and scripts are "placed" inside their own track's folder!"

I don't know what 'all the known tracks' are - but most likely the older ones, which don't use the advanced features.

The stk engine would run/load and read better the tracks if these files are placed inside only one track folder!

No, it won't. I would recommend that you go to the detailed setting of the graphics, and find out exactly which setting causes the crash. If you tell us the details of your graphics card, driver version, os (best stdout.log file) , we can disable that feature.

Thank you for your posting!
Joerg

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Hi

@tuxkartdriver it seems you have some misunderstanding how a file system and a rendering engine works. I don't say that to be offensive but I prefer to clarify the situation. Don't take it bad. It's a difficult topic and we don't expect people to understand how it works.

But in order to make a good bug report you SHOULDN'T make wrong assumption. Just explaining what's the problem (for example: cocoa temple isn't loading and there is this and this missing) and what's the FACTS (there is in the terminal an error msg that say ...)

3° - For each "USED" graphical level, they enabled or disabled each graphical option one by one at a time to see where the problem is?

We are aware there is problems with the new engine. The graphic level just turn ON and OFF some options. There is no point to set in the level one and enabling everything (it will be like setting level 5). If you want to try each options you just enable or disable them manually.

"Bugs" are issues that the programmers know they can happen, eventhough they make a huge effort to avoid them! But, "bugs" always happen, want the programmers or not! And many of these bugs may occur with no explanation and reason for that!

Yes they can happen and there is always a reason (even if we can't find it). That's why it's important to stick to the facts and not try to make assumptions

Well, I have to say that "FOR ME" at least, this updated release of stk got much better than the 1st release, but even so, just as me as the other players still get some bugs on it too! I can't understand why almost all the trackswork perfectly when I play with the 5th graphical level, instead of "Cocoa Temple" that crashes on this level!!

You have to understand Cocoa Temple is our "benchmark" it's the most complex track ever designed for stk. It uses all advanced features etc while other tracks are "just" simple conversion. The other comparable track is Gran Paradiso island.
If cocoa crashes please tell us what was the message on the terminal + what was the configuration used, otherwise we can't really help you.

There is no reason for crashing stk engine with my notebook graphical board! I use Maya 3d with viewport 2.0 with realtime rendering and also Mudbox. And I easily use a lot of effects and animations with 8k and 16k HD textures and maps with Maya.

You can't compare apples and oranges. First maya has a lot more dev than us (so their optimization is probably better than ours) and MudBox/Zbrush etc works differently. Actually stk engine is quite good at displaying tons of polygons in real time (considering blender lags if we open a stk track). Also it's not only rendering but there is a LOOOOOOOT of stuff going on for stk (sound, computer karts, animations). It's not "just rendering" something in real time.

About, long names, different dirs and paths, I can say that blender and the stk engine 0.8.1 sometimes don´t work very well with this! Sometimes, I exported some of my tracks to test them, and some exported object which were part of my track, weren´t listed by the stk exported script making the stk engine crash! Just because of a simple letter or number in the object's name, or because of a texture that was placed at other dir and since the stk engine was not able not found the texture or object, it crashed!

I wonder what's names you have used and if they included space or strange character. Also how to you excpect stk to find a texture if it's not placed in the right directory. We can't and won't scan your computer just to try to find a texture. Respect the game directories and everything will be fine.

Another problem, was when I had to move the folder of one of my tracks containing all the textures, objects and the blender file to another path. Blender simply didn't recognized anymore the objects and I had to import everything again! Just because of a simple dir change! These problems don't happen to me all the time! These things seem to be ridiculous, but happens! I don´t know why!

Blender has some issue when directories are changed. That's why we have "fixed" directories and we don't change them. But again from the blender perspective what happen is you tell to blender: The texture hello.png is in the directory texture/ and then you rename the directory into pictures/. How can blender guess where the texture is ? It's not magical. If I move a book from your bookshelf, unless I tell you where it is you can't guess (or you have to check every books in order to find it).

I would like to know also, why OS as Windows has so many problems with "Virus" as malwares, troyans and many other unreadable or undetectable ones, which sometimes are inside 3 or 4 folder levels? Neither the windows search find them and nor their entries?

it's unrelated. There is other ways virus can hide themselves from the OS or security software but it's not with folders inside other folder ^^. The os can easily explore the trees of all directories. There are software to do that.

I have separated into two post because this is the most important part

I know, that this new release is not the final release, but all the programmers should take the suggestions and issues into consideration, even that, they seem to be ridiculous to believe them! Softwares are impredictable and many strange things may occur to them! There aren't rules for bugs! They many times can happen with no reason! Assuming, that all the programmers didn't forget any detail or observed anything wrong!

That's the purpose of a beta. Fixing bugs and improving quality. If you want your bug a chance to be corrected please make a correct bug report and not wrong assumptions based on wrong knowledges. As I said we don't except you to be a computer expert, so stick to the fact and what you can reproduce.

- What was the graphical level when cocoa temple crashes ?
- Is the crash reproducible ? Is there a way to make it crashes ?
- What's your GPU ?
- Have you two GPU (like some laptops) ? If yes are you sure stk uses the most powerful one ?
- When cocoa crashes is there anything associated ? like strange color before ? if yes take a screenshot
- If there are objects missing what are they ? Items ? trees ? karts ?
- Is there a message in the terminal when it crashes ?
- Is it really only cocoa temple ? Gran Paradiso is very close in term of complexity to cocoa. Is there anything wrong with gran paradiso
- If you try to disable options in advanced setting (one by one), can the crash be avoided ?

And be aware Video Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 are "low end" GPU. They can't be compared to the most powerful ones like Nvidia or ATI dedicated one.

In my opinion, I think that all the specific textures for each track, as well as all the 3ds objects and all the libraries, should be place inside the track folder! Instead of inside different dirs! I suggest that the programmers let the folder "\SuperTuxKart\data\textures", only should be used to place the textures which are used in common by the tracks as "standard textures" for the stk 0.8.2.

It's what we were doing before 0.8.2 and we won't go backward. Having such infrastructure allow us to reuse easily assets for other tracks. Some very specific stuff like skybox are still in the track folder.

I will end by saying: Don't take this personally. It's not intended to be harsh nor insulting. I'm trying to help you making the best bug report possible because we want to fix bugs .

tuxkartdriver {l Wrote}:

No (at least not if everything else is setup correctly, and there are no bugs, ...). Since the tracks work for most people, I think it is very likely that everything is set up correctly.

Well, it is not beacuse the tracks works for most people, that everything is correct! Otherwise, stk wouldn´t have had some crash complaints! It depends on several things,

While I am certainly the last one to say that stk is bug free, many of the crashes reported atm are caused by bugs in the driver. So the fact that people report crashes does not necessarily indicate that there are bugs in STK (though of course there are .... look at our bug list).

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As we could see on the 1st release of the stk 0.8.2 beta! When many people with very good computers and graphical features had many bug problems, as crashes, disappeared objects and invisible objects, not found textures, not loaded textures and objects and many more others things! While, for others, the problems were just a few bugs on a track.

Well, I have to say that "FOR ME" at least, this updated release of stk got much better than the 1st release, but even so, just as me as the other players still get some bugs on it too!

Of course, I never said that all bugs are gone - we are still fixing bugs (some from before the first beta, some reported after beta2 or even from current development version).

I can't understand why almost all the trackswork perfectly when I play with the 5th graphical level, instead of "Cocoa Temple" that crashes on this level!!

Because Cocoa Temple is one of the (if not the) heaviest track we have that also uses more or less all graphical options. So, it triggers a bug in the driver of your card. Other tracks work, because they don't use the feature that causes the crash, or are not as heavy. With 'heavy' I mean the overall demand on graphical memory and processing power. Especially Intel graphics drivers on windows are to the best of my knowledge known to have issues with vram and can run out of vram (instead of being able to transfer data to the graphics card from main memory if the card is out of memory). So, a heavy track like Cocoa is most likely to trigger that problem.

There is no reason for crashing stk engine with my notebook graphical board!

Yes, there is: your graphics driver contains bugs. And we need to know more details in order to work around those bugs (or in general: disable certain features to avoid a crash).

I use Maya 3d with viewport 2.0 with realtime rendering and also Mudbox. And I easily use a lot of effects and animations with 8k and 16k HD textures and maps with Maya.

I don't know how much they tax your graphics card, and if they use similar features and shaders we are using.

About, long names, different dirs and paths, I can say that blender and the stk engine 0.8.1 sometimes don´t work very well with this! Sometimes, I exported some of my tracks to test them, and some exported object which were part of my track, weren´t listed by the stk exported script making the stk engine crash! Just because of a simple letter or number in the object's name, or because of a texture that was placed at other dir and since the stk engine was not able not found the texture or object, it crashed!

Could you please post an example? We are always happy to improve our engine - I would really like to see an example where a "simple letter or number in the object's name" causes a crash.

Another problem, was when I had to move the folder of one of my tracks containing all the textures, objects and the blender file to another path. Blender simply didn't recognized anymore the objects and I had to import everything again! Just because of a simple dir change! These problems don't happen to me all the time! These things seem to be ridiculous, but happens! I don´t know why!

My guess would be that you stored the textures with an absolute path. So when you removed them, blender couldn't find them. Admittedly, I am not an expert in blender, but please google to find how to properly specify relative paths.

Aeh - where did you get this from? There is certainly no connection between framerate and number of directories read, or length of paths, or directory nesting levels (well, there are upper limits for paths etc, but we are not hitting those). But I am happy to learn, if you could quote some references

Hiker, I didn´t make any affirmation about "connection between framerate and number of directories read, or length of paths, or directory nesting levels". It was just a smart suggestion from me to you all!

Oh sorry, I didn't get that.

Explain me please what is more intelligent and easy to do?
Example: "You want to go to the shopping center, that stays at the corner of you street, so explain me why, you should use a GPS with many routes for that?

Agree with me, that you don't need to go first to the city downtown, to after go back to the corner of your stree! It only will delay you! And waste time!

I admit I have no idea what you are trying to tell met But I am happy to humor you: Because the GPS receives updated information about the road closure forcing you to take a different route

I would like to know also, why OS as Windows has so many problems with "Virus" as malwares, troyans and many other unreadable or undetectable ones, which sometimes are inside 3 or 4 folder levels? Neither the windows search find them and nor their entries?

Because you as a user will less likely look at those directories and wonder what those files are. Plus windows stores certain files (e.g. caches) in certain locations, typically where they are not easy to find (to avoid confusing the user).

I don't know what 'all the known tracks' are - but most likely the older ones, which don't use the advanced features.

I meant that all the known tracks are "Mansion Hill", "Enterprise", "Mine" and the older ones! By the way, weren't also applied advanced features to "Mansion Hill", "Enterprise" and "Mine"?

Some of them had minor updates to make them work better with some new features, but none of them is as taxing as Cocoa Temple.

I know, that this new release is not the final release, but all the programmers should take the suggestions and issues into consideration, even that, they seem to be ridiculous to believe them! Softwares are impredictable and many strange things may occur to them! There aren't rules for bugs! They many times can happen with no reason! Assuming, that all the programmers didn't forget any detail or observed anything wrong!

I certainly do believe bug reports even if they might appear ridiculous. But having at least some experience with intel graphics card (I have one myself, though an older one), we know that your card is not able to handle Cocoa (and some other bigger tracks) at highest level. You report exactly that problem, and I am trying to tell you that the graphics driver is the reason for your problem. If you think it's the paths, then I admit there's not much I can do about that. Perhaps the fact that you are from my understanding able to run Cocoa at lower level might tell you that stk does indeed find all textures.

Now as I have said before: if you want to help, find out the detailed graphical option that causes stk to crash. The levels you have used are just a certain pre-selection of those options. Select the highest level that works, then add more options to find out which causes Cocoa not to work.

Cheers,
Joerg

tuxkartdriver {l Wrote}:There is no reason for crashing stk engine with my notebook graphical board! I use Maya 3d with viewport 2.0 with realtime rendering and also Mudbox. And I easily use a lot of effects and animations with 8k and 16k HD textures and maps with Maya.

Maya might reduce texture resolution internaly without telling, 16k texture is something like 1 GB of memory and I think maximal reserved vram size is 512 mB on HD 4000.

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Are you seriously comparing commercial products with full-time developers and multi million dollar budgets to STK?

Has any of the STK developers got a system with a HD 4000 GPU?

Would you be willing to donate one? Or donate money to buy one?

Hi,

unfortunately you did not provide the information I asked, e.g. the graphical option, so I make this very brief:

tuxkartdriver {l Wrote}:I just used the name: Testtrack1

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Post your tracks (.blend file, all textures, and the exported files), and one of us will have a look.

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I don´t guide myself on wrong knowledges! I wrote about dir problems, because my stdout file showed that some textures and some 3d wheels hadn´t been found in one of the tracks I played!

And we looked and told you that there is nothing wrong with those message. Atm they are normal, and will be removed before the release. But they do not cause a crash.

On the other hand, messages like

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

[error  ] GLWrapp: Error when linking these shaders :
[error  ] GLWrapp: data/shaders/shadow.vert
[error  ] GLWrapp: data/shaders/shadow.geom
[error  ] GLWrapp: data/shaders/shadowref.frag
[error  ] GLWrapp:
[warn   ] IrrDriver: GLWrap : OpenGL error 1285


indicate a problem - most likely a driver bug, or a bug in our shader. I've asked you to try to find out which option causes the crash. On my hd3000 I can't even enable shadows because it causes crashes in the driver - we might need to do the same for hd4000, but since none of us devs has one, we need your help.
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Sam wrote: Sam: And be aware Video Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 are "low end" GPU. They can't be compared to the most powerful ones like Nvidia or ATI dedicated one.

Sam, I disagee with you! I have a Sony Vaio notebook that is more than US$ 2000,00, neither all people can afford one of these! And you come to tell me, that its is "Low End", just to justify the problems that you and the others don´t know how to solve! You must be kidding!

From a graphical point of view it is. I am on hd3000 - beggars end
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A list of playable games on hd4000 is at: http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-033387.htm - interestingly some of the game you mention are not in that list.

Sam, don't take this personally too, but, it is not a cool and smart thing to jutify something that still not is perfect! You, as a STK team developer shouldn´t and don´t have the right to depreciate someone's computer, cards or any configuration that the players use!

I don't think samuncle wanted to depreciate you (neither he nor me is a native English speaker, so sometimes a bit of tolerance is needed). The fact that a hd4000 is not exactly high end is a fact, nothing to do with not taking you serious - I say this with my hd3000.

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Hiker wrote: Yes, there is: your graphics driver contains bugs.

I am trying to tell you that the graphics driver is the reason for your problem.

Where did you read that? Who told you this? Do you have any Intel report comfirming that? It is a strange comment based in suppositions!

I would like that show any proof that my graphical card contains bugs!

*grin* You telling me all the time that stk contains bugs, but not wanting to accept that a (much more complex) graphics driver might contain one?
http://www.g-truc.net/doc/OpenGL%20status%202014-05.pdf
http://www.g-truc.net/post-0672.html
Mozilla also has a list of which drivers are necessary for which card, ... and feel free to search the intel bug DB as well. Main issue is, no driver is 100% correct, and we try to avoid using features that are known not to work. So for hd3000 which I have we can detect those and disable these features. With hd4000 we need your help. If you tell us that shadows trigger the crash, we will disable them for hd4000 on windows etc. STK might run fine with a card that only supports say 10% of opengl correctly - if it's the 10% we need. A card with 99.9% correct opengl might not work, since we need the missing 0.1%.

I just updated my drive this week! And the track still has the same problem! I can run the Paradiso track in level 5 with no problem.

Hmm - if I am not mistaken previously you wrote that you can't run Paradiso on level 5. Then you updated the driver and now you can. What might that indicate - a problem with the paths in STK?

But in level 1 and 2 it shows bugs!

Before you could run on level 1 and 2, now you updated the driver, and you can't? What might that indicate?

Maybe I should contact some Intel's engineers to discover why, their HD 4000 graphical card runs eveything, less STK?

That would indeed be great - https://communities.intel.com/community/tech/graphics looks like a place to start. In our graphical restrictions handling we can differentiate by driver version, so we can enable the feature that causes a crash on older drivers only. But if this is too much work ... if you would pretty pretty please with just tell us which graphical feature causes the crash, we can work around it alternatively and leave this whole discussion behind us.

Cheers,
Joerg

tuxkartdriver {l Wrote}:Sam, I disagee with you! I have a Sony Vaio notebook that is more than US$ 2000,00, neither all people can afford one of these! And you come to tell me, that its is "Low End", just to justify the problems that you and the others don´t know how to solve! You must be kidding!

The question is that this "Low End", runs easily all the games the highest graphical effect demands and capabilities of the planet as I can mention: "Crysis 3", "Battlefield 4", "Assasins Creed", "Metro 2033", "Batman Arkham Asylum", "Batman Arkham City" and etc...

Battlefield 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ5JEsLLs6o

Crysis 2 e 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMZ4uaeBRjw

Assassin's Creed: Unity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLIjpEUZLW0

Titanfall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKgYkCyJ76o

Skyrim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=154aP1CdvNM

You're comparing Direct3d 11 games running on a desktop computer in medium level with an OpenGL game running on your laptop at ultra settings.

Direct3d drivers are much more tested than OpenGL ones. Additionnaly direct3d has a much more elaborate infrastructure than OpenGL, it provides a driver model (WDDM 1.2) to abstract memory transaction and even a compiler. OpenGL implémentations need to be written from scratch. In theory it should allow for better performance but in practice it's not really the case.

@tuxkartdriver

You bought laptop for 2000$ and you think that it is high-end. I personally bought two years ago Lenovo laptop for ~630$ and it has better configuration than yours (intel core i5 with HD4000 graphics card + nvidia geforce 635m and 6GB RAM). And no, intel HD graphics cards are not high-end.

Other thing is that STK is not designed for advanced players, but for ordinary people, which are playing it sometimes just for fun. And they don't have geforce 970...

And totally other thing are bugs in opengl drivers (which are common, at least on linux).

The best and easier solution is just to reduce the graphical level to something a bit less demanding.

You can do what hiker suggested, try to find which option causes the crash so we can disable it by default on IntelHD4000

deve {l Wrote}:@tuxkartdriver

You bought laptop for 2000$ and you think that it is high-end. I personally bought two years ago Lenovo laptop for ~630$ and it has better configuration than yours (intel core i5 with HD4000 graphics card + nvidia geforce 635m and 6GB RAM). And no, intel HD graphics cards are not high-end.

Sorry, but you misunderstood him (he's my brother).

Tuxkartdriver don't think that his laptop is high end, much less, the best and the strongest in therms of graphic capacity. He just said the truth: his laptop/GPU can run easily heavier games and professional graphic softwares, so, there's no logical reason for not running STK due to "high graphic requiriments" or lack of a enough strong GPU. He is not a "gamer" (me too); he's a graphic artist who works on his laptop and desktop. Both give him total conditions for his works. So he is not purchasing another one just to play Supertuxkart.

Somebody could argument: "Sorry, but your laptop has not the necessary graphic strenght to run STK, Please, go and buy another strnger PC or quit this game and let STK for the strongers". This is foolish, total garbage and that's what he's trying to deny. I tought this was clear for all.

deve {l Wrote}:Other thing is that STK is not designed for advanced players, but for ordinary people, which are playing it sometimes just for fun. And they don't have geforce 970...

That's is exactly the point and he is trying to show clearly.

deve {l Wrote}:@tuxkartdriver

You bought laptop for 2000$ and you think that it is high-end. I personally bought two years ago Lenovo laptop for ~630$ and it has better configuration than yours (intel core i5 with HD4000 graphics card + nvidia geforce 635m and 6GB RAM). And no, intel HD graphics cards are not high-end.

In Brazil there is a very high tax on imported electronic goods, I've heard of 120%. That's why PS4 costs around 1000$ there and I suspect Sony doesn't manufacturs PCs in Brazil.

GeekPenguinBR {l Wrote}:He just said the truth: his laptop/GPU can run easily heavier games and professional graphic softwares, so, there's no logical reason for not running STK due to "high graphic requiriments" or lack of a enough strong GPU.

hiker {l Wrote}:*grin* You telling me all the time that stk contains bugs, but not wanting to accept that a (much more complex) graphics driver might contain one?
http://www.g-truc.net/doc/OpenGL%20status%202014-05.pdf
http://www.g-truc.net/post-0672.html
Mozilla also has a list of which drivers are necessary for which card, ... and feel free to search the intel bug DB as well. Main issue is, no driver is 100% correct, and we try to avoid using features that are known not to work. So for hd3000 which I have we can detect those and disable these features. With hd4000 we need your help. If you tell us that shadows trigger the crash, we will disable them for hd4000 on windows etc. STK might run fine with a card that only supports say 10% of opengl correctly - if it's the 10% we need. A card with 99.9% correct opengl might not work, since we need the missing 0.1%.

@GeekPenguinBR
Please, you haven't read / understood hikers post, have you?

GeekPenguinBR {l Wrote}:

deve {l Wrote}:Other thing is that STK is not designed for advanced players, but for ordinary people, which are playing it sometimes just for fun. And they don't have geforce 970...

That's is exactly the point and he is trying to show clearly.

I don't see the point in arbitrary holding effects back so that people could max out the game with an Intel igpu. High end of today are tomorrow's mainstream gpu.
In the meantime there is several sliders in the gfx options.

XGhost {l Wrote}: @GeekPenguinBR
Please, you haven't read / understood hikers post, have you?

XGhost:
Please, you haven't read / understood my response intended to Deve instead Hiker? Not, for sure!

That's a good explanation, but the question here is different.
Not being rude, but no matter what Hiker or Samuncle have posted. My response was intended to Deve, who posted a comment as if my brother was thinking that he has the stronger gamer laptop and doesn't admits a single word in contrary. Is It clear now? Good.

vlj {l Wrote}:I don't see the point in arbitrary holding effects back

Me too. I never said the contrary. I'm one of those who defends the improvement of graphics until STK looks like "Thomas and friends" or "Batman Lego".

vlj {l Wrote}: High end of today are tomorrow's mainstream gpu.

Yes. There's a discussion about this on the topic "STK number versions":
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6136

GeekPenguinBR {l Wrote}:

XGhost {l Wrote}: @GeekPenguinBR
Please, you haven't read / understood hikers post, have you?

XGhost:
Please, you haven't read / understood my response intended to Deve instead Hiker? Not, for sure!

No matter what Hiker or Samuncle have posted. My response was intended to Deve, who posted a comment as if my brother was thinking that he has the stronger gamer laptop and doesn't admits a single word in contrary. It's clear now? Good.

Thanks, I love you too.

I don't care who you have quoted, but:

GeekPenguinBR {l Wrote}:He just said the truth: his laptop/GPU can run easily heavier games and professional graphic softwares, so, there's no logical reason for not running STK due to "high graphic requiriments" or lack of a enough strong GPU.

this simply isn't true. There IS a reason: Read hikers post...

Cheers

vlj {l Wrote}:In Brazil there is a very high tax on imported electronic goods, I've heard of 120%. That's why PS4 costs around 1000$

Actually, the taxes for imported goods are 60%. Even so, everything imported costs much more than in USA and Europe.

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