Track re-balance for 2.0

Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 13 May 2023, 18:46

There are currently a lot of tracks that have alternative paths were only one is viable, especially in online races this destroys the whole purpose of having multiple routes. therfore I would like to address those balance issues for 2.0


I won't aim for an perfectly balanced result but taking a specific route shouldn't mean you instantly lose the race.
Overall harder paths should be a little bit faster than easier ones but not as much as a lot currently are.

Here are the things which I think should be balanced and some ideas on how to balance them.


Black Forest:

- the first two split paths are already balanced pretty well, but the left one makes it easier to take the shortcut through the tunnel. Nerfing the tunnel shortcut and making nitro distribution a bit more even should do the job.

- the tunnel shortcut is wayyy to good rn making it a lot slower and a bit harder would be my idea, my goal would be that it usually doesn't make sense to take this route, unless you're going for the absolute best time.

- monastery shortcut: adding a zipper to the slower buttom route worked really well in my testing and made them about equal.



Cocoa Temple:
- the left split path right after the start is a bit more difficult and also slightly slower, adding some nitro should make this path more viable.

- in the village the by far best path is the right one either nerfing this path by making the zipper from the jump slower, or buffing the left paths by adding a zipper and/or nitro would be ideas. The right path should still remain slightly faster as it is the harder path.



Ravenbridge Mansion:
- the path dropping down in the mansion is way slower at the moment I don't see a good way to buff it other than adding nitro, slowing down the zipper from the path through the library could also work.




Grand Paradiso Island:
- the left of the first split paths is way slower, adding a zipper at the start of the straight should work well.

- maybe the secret path on the left could become viable after that buff, I will have to test that.




Oliver's math class:
- the secret shortcut makes the track way shorter than it already is, I would just remove the shortcut but I don't know if other players agree with that. There is not a good way to nerf this one except for adding a slowdown to it.


Let me know if you agree or disagree with the changes I have in mind, and if I missed any things that you think should be balanced as well.
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby Polo10 » 14 May 2023, 07:50

Hello again Sven :)
I don't think there is any need to remove the shortcut for Oliver's Math Class because we can simply (tell me what you think) replace it with Toy Block Raceway.
After your other ideas I totally agree with you.
Have you thought about the small path at the beginning of the left-hand path in Cocoa Temple in the village?
Do you think it is necessary to do something to it?
And for the secret path at the end, would it be a good idea to have it played by bots in the future?
Have a nice day!
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby CrystalDaEevee » 14 May 2023, 12:39

No Polo, we do NOT need to replace Oliver's Math Class, especially when OMC itself originated with the concept of TuxKart. It's such an icon, would be a big shame to lose it from the game...
As for the shortcut, I don't really mind what happens to it as long as the track doesn't get drastic changes on how it looks.
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby fracture » 14 May 2023, 16:25

If Oliver's Math Class stays, it should be expanded and renamed to Oliver's School because currently the track is way too short. The track could cover the entire school with the classroom being the same as before. This would improve the track greatly while retaining the legacy of the original TuxKart.
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 14 May 2023, 20:16

fracture {l Wrote}:If Oliver's Math Class stays, it should be expanded and renamed to Oliver's School because currently the track is way too short. The track could cover the entire school with the classroom being the same as before. This would improve the track greatly while retaining the legacy of the original TuxKart.

I disagree tbh. I think it's awesome that this track is so different in lengths to all other tracks, it creates a racing experience no other oficiall track can. Especially in online races, even good players get laped often and it creates a lot of chaos. While I understand that not everybody likes that, I think it is very important to have tracks that offer different racing experiences, (what's the point of having many tracks if they all play the same).

I agree with Crystal that this track should mostly stay unchanged.

And just to clarify this post isn't really about changing tracks it's only about balancing the existing routes in tracks.

For OMC it just so happens that there is a shortcut which makes a large part of the track useless, wether that shortcut was intended or not. And I think the shortcut has a least to get some sort of nerf so the other route can be used as well.
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby fracture » 14 May 2023, 22:05

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:
fracture {l Wrote}:If Oliver's Math Class stays, it should be expanded and renamed to Oliver's School because currently the track is way too short. The track could cover the entire school with the classroom being the same as before. This would improve the track greatly while retaining the legacy of the original TuxKart.

I disagree tbh. I think it's awesome that this track is so different in lengths to all other tracks, it creates a racing experience no other oficiall track can. Especially in online races, even good players get laped often and it creates a lot of chaos. While I understand that not everybody likes that, I think it is very important to have tracks that offer different racing experiences, (what's the point of having many tracks if they all play the same).

I agree with Crystal that this track should mostly stay unchanged.

I think it'd still have a unique experience taking place in a school, and OMC isn't the only short track in the game. Zen Garden could provide a similar experience while being more technical and slightly longer. A track like The Cube would make it difficult to tell whose in first and whose in last while not being what is essentially a Baby Park clone in terms of gameplay. Right now, none of the official tracks stand out that much except Black Forest, Minigolf, and maybe Cocoa Temple.
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 14 May 2023, 23:43

fracture {l Wrote}:
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:
fracture {l Wrote}:If Oliver's Math Class stays, it should be expanded and renamed to Oliver's School because currently the track is way too short. The track could cover the entire school with the classroom being the same as before. This would improve the track greatly while retaining the legacy of the original TuxKart.

I disagree tbh. I think it's awesome that this track is so different in lengths to all other tracks, it creates a racing experience no other oficiall track can. Especially in online races, even good players get laped often and it creates a lot of chaos. While I understand that not everybody likes that, I think it is very important to have tracks that offer different racing experiences, (what's the point of having many tracks if they all play the same).

I agree with Crystal that this track should mostly stay unchanged.

I think it'd still have a unique experience taking place in a school, and OMC isn't the only short track in the game. Zen Garden could provide a similar experience while being more technical and slightly longer. A track like The Cube would make it difficult to tell whose in first and whose in last while not being what is essentially a Baby Park clone in terms of gameplay. Right now, none of the official tracks stand out that much except Black Forest, Minigolf, and maybe Cocoa Temple.


First a very important general note: a lot of the good gameplay elements in tracks, will only show in online races. Because in races against the AI you can make tons of mistakes and still easily get first.

Well I did a quick test and OMC and Zengarden differ quite a lot in length. In OMC I got lap times around 11.5 - 12 seconds and around 22 seconds on Zengarden thats almost DOUBLE the length which makes a very big difference.

I don't know how much online STK you have played but OMC is the only track in which even the best players will get lapped, that just doesn't happen on any other track (only taking default laps into considaration of course).
Zengarden doesn't even come close to experience of OMC sure it's a rather short track as well but it feels way more like just a normal track which is just a bit smaller. Lapping in online races between really good players almost never happens, and even if it does there is just not much chaos around because the track is way longer.
Also I would consider OMC already the more technical track over Zengarden, OMC is a rather tense track for sure with many sharp turns and it can easily happen to get stuck on a barrier especially after colliding with another kart (which happens more often than on other tracks, because of the lengths).

Comparing OMC to baby park also doesn't do justice to OMC. Baby park is literally just an oval while OMC has quite a lot turns (left and right) and a lot of them need a good driving line to not lose time.

I'm interest what you mean by "stand out much" is it just the genral style of the track? What does a track need to really stand out in your opinion?
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 14 May 2023, 23:48

On another note after testing the track again I changed my mind on how to balance the shortcut. I think the better solution is to add a zipper to the main route.
Back in the day there were already 2 zippers on the track if I'm not mistaken, adding the second one back would be a good solution I think.

The shortcut would remain the slightly faster route but also be the harder and more risky one.
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby Haenschen » 15 May 2023, 03:54

I think the main route should be significantly slower since it is so much easier and safer. The cut can be really messy online with many players. Karts with swatters get stuck etc ... One extra zipper on the main route is probably enough to ensure a good balance.
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby Alayan » 30 Oct 2023, 21:54

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:
Black Forest:

- the first two split paths are already balanced pretty well, but the left one makes it easier to take the shortcut through the tunnel. Nerfing the tunnel shortcut and making nitro distribution a bit more even should do the job.

- the tunnel shortcut is wayyy to good rn making it a lot slower and a bit harder would be my idea, my goal would be that it usually doesn't make sense to take this route, unless you're going for the absolute best time.

- monastery shortcut: adding a zipper to the slower buttom route worked really well in my testing and made them about equal.

I agree. In some ways, the tunnel shortcut is not only faster but easier than the normal route once you get on the railway, as the normal path requires taking some tight curves and has more difficult to get nitros.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Cocoa Temple:
- the left split path right after the start is a bit more difficult and also slightly slower, adding some nitro should make this path more viable.

- in the village the by far best path is the right one either nerfing this path by making the zipper from the jump slower, or buffing the left paths by adding a zipper and/or nitro would be ideas. The right path should still remain slightly faster as it is the harder path..


Something to consider in situations like the first split paths is also different difficulties. I think the left path was quite viable in novice, but it's completely useless in standard speed. I'm not saying a path is good if it's only useful in novice, but rather that while balancing should mostly focus on the top difficulty, it's also good to consider effects on lower one.

Regarding the village path, I think it should still be faster, and even more so if you also go for the secret shortcut afterwards. But I agree that currently the gap is too big. It also tends to make issues like nitro denial worse, since if you are half a second behind the leader and he goes in these paths, you'll get no nitro at all, and picking another path entirely is too punitive.

Removing the nitro right at the entry of the right village path would be a good start, as it doesn't take skill to grab. Also, the right path has a "right right" option that is never used, perhaps it could take a small nitro instead. But the standard path also needs a bit of a buff.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Ravenbridge Mansion:
- the path dropping down in the mansion is way slower at the moment I don't see a good way to buff it other than adding nitro, slowing down the zipper from the path through the library could also work.


As I understand it, this was designed as a kind of "trap", but for experimented players who know it's slower, the odds of falling there by accident are nil. I wouldn't mind it being slower if actually not falling in there was made more difficult, for example changing the floor so that it has a lot of irregularly placed holes to avoid.

But in addition to making it harder to not fall below, a row of small nitro below and some kind of obstacle to avoid in the above path (most obviously bananas, although something like ghosts would be neat) would make the balance more reasonable. Or perhaps removing the middle nitro of the three nitros on the right side of the library in the upper path, three small nitros aligned to be taken one after the other are almost always bad for balance.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Grand Paradiso Island:
- the left of the first split paths is way slower, adding a zipper at the start of the straight should work well.

- maybe the secret path on the left could become viable after that buff, I will have to test that.

Yes, this is one of the worst offenders of poor path balance in the official track. I'm quite sure there is an issue somewhere in the bug tracker about it. I think the ground zipper is a good idea, as it makes the very long straight line more fun.

Although laying it on dirt might look a bit out of place, perhaps this could be done alongside some visual redesign : the right border of the road there going directly from dirt to fall looks bad. Since there is a big concrete bridge, perhaps the underside of that bridge could use a different surface than the rest of the road, on which a ground zipper would look nicer ?

It would also be neat to fix the secret path to use a normal zipper boost instead of the ugly "teleport" mechanic. Getting the angle right might be tricky, but that speed boost would also help making the secret path more interesting.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Oliver's math class:
- the secret shortcut makes the track way shorter than it already is, I would just remove the shortcut but I don't know if other players agree with that. There is not a good way to nerf this one except for adding a slowdown to it.

The secret shortcut is quite difficult to take, it's too neat to be removed. It requires a lot of accuracy to be taken efficiently and reliably.

But honestly, while the math class track is a classic and is filled with a lot of visual goodies (in some ways, it tells a story if you look around everywhere), it is not really a good track. It seems optimized for novice speed... I like the idea of having a gimmick track with much shorter laps than normal, I like having a track with very tight turns, but Math Class is both ugly and flawed from a gameplay perspective.

In many ways it's STK history, but in my opinion it needs either to be replaced or a serious redesign. But if we get better textures instead of some of the ugly ones and redesign the path (to make it a bit lengthier (think 15s (14 shortcut) instead of 12s (10 shortcut), not 30s...) and to have a "chair shortcut" that's less overpowered, among other things), would it still be maths class ? And it could be made so the "chairs shortcut" is a bit more flexible (it's too easy to trap it with gum).

All the rulers and books placed with nitro atop are completely useless in the current version if you don't play in novice or maybe intermediate, changing the shortcut would not address such flaws.

Players from ancient times will remember that the current section out of the class is already a redesign of the old Math class that was even shorter, simpler and uglier.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:And just to clarify this post isn't really about changing tracks it's only about balancing the existing routes in tracks.

Makes sense, but obviously this balancing is only useful if the tracks themselves are intended to be kept in their current state for a long while.

fracture {l Wrote}:not being what is essentially a Baby Park clone in terms of gameplay.

Baby Park is much easier to master than OMC, I think that's a terrible comparison.
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby Polo10 » 31 Oct 2023, 09:13

Hello Alayan,
It's great to see you again, even if you don't know me yet.
I don't agree that big nitro is useless. A little while ago I realised how useful they are. In fact, at this race the start is crucial, which means that a medium or light kart is favoured in the road races. As a result, these karts need nitro to go faster. So now I collect the nitro from the pile of books just after the shortcut. So it still has some use.
And also, when Sven said that this was a topic for rebalancing the tracks, it was because I'd mentioned an exchange between Toy Block Raceway and Oliver's Maths Class.
Have a nice day !!!
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 14 Nov 2023, 01:03

Alayan {l Wrote}:
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Cocoa Temple:
- the left split path right after the start is a bit more difficult and also slightly slower, adding some nitro should make this path more viable.

- in the village the by far best path is the right one either nerfing this path by making the zipper from the jump slower, or buffing the left paths by adding a zipper and/or nitro would be ideas. The right path should still remain slightly faster as it is the harder path..


Something to consider in situations like the first split paths is also different difficulties. I think the left path was quite viable in novice, but it's completely useless in standard speed. I'm not saying a path is good if it's only useful in novice, but rather that while balancing should mostly focus on the top difficulty, it's also good to consider effects on lower one.

Regarding the village path, I think it should still be faster, and even more so if you also go for the secret shortcut afterwards. But I agree that currently the gap is too big. It also tends to make issues like nitro denial worse, since if you are half a second behind the leader and he goes in these paths, you'll get no nitro at all, and picking another path entirely is too punitive.

Removing the nitro right at the entry of the right village path would be a good start, as it doesn't take skill to grab. Also, the right path has a "right right" option that is never used, perhaps it could take a small nitro instead. But the standard path also needs a bit of a buff.

I would say the left path, of the first split path, is harder than the right one, so do you think it should become the slightly faster path?
I agree about the other things you said, I think I will try to also replace the nitro of the fastest in a way that the player in first won't steal every nitro.





Alayan {l Wrote}:
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Ravenbridge Mansion:
- the path dropping down in the mansion is way slower at the moment I don't see a good way to buff it other than adding nitro, slowing down the zipper from the path through the library could also work.


As I understand it, this was designed as a kind of "trap", but for experimented players who know it's slower, the odds of falling there by accident are nil. I wouldn't mind it being slower if actually not falling in there was made more difficult, for example changing the floor so that it has a lot of irregularly placed holes to avoid.

But in addition to making it harder to not fall below, a row of small nitro below and some kind of obstacle to avoid in the above path (most obviously bananas, although something like ghosts would be neat) would make the balance more reasonable. Or perhaps removing the middle nitro of the three nitros on the right side of the library in the upper path, three small nitros aligned to be taken one after the other are almost always bad for balance.


Oh I didn't realize it was meant to be a trap. I still think even when it's changed so it's harder not to fall, it shouldn't be as slow as it currently is.
A thing that might be cool would be to make the hole larger (more destroyed or something) the further the race progresses, not sure if there are possibilities to do something like that with scripting.






Alayan {l Wrote}:
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Grand Paradiso Island:
- the left of the first split paths is way slower, adding a zipper at the start of the straight should work well.

- maybe the secret path on the left could become viable after that buff, I will have to test that.

Yes, this is one of the worst offenders of poor path balance in the official track. I'm quite sure there is an issue somewhere in the bug tracker about it. I think the ground zipper is a good idea, as it makes the very long straight line more fun.

Although laying it on dirt might look a bit out of place, perhaps this could be done alongside some visual redesign : the right border of the road there going directly from dirt to fall looks bad. Since there is a big concrete bridge, perhaps the underside of that bridge could use a different surface than the rest of the road, on which a ground zipper would look nicer ?

It would also be neat to fix the secret path to use a normal zipper boost instead of the ugly "teleport" mechanic. Getting the angle right might be tricky, but that speed boost would also help making the secret path more interesting.

I like all those ideas/considerations, will keep them in mind when working on those issues.







Alayan {l Wrote}:
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Oliver's math class:
- the secret shortcut makes the track way shorter than it already is, I would just remove the shortcut but I don't know if other players agree with that. There is not a good way to nerf this one except for adding a slowdown to it.

The secret shortcut is quite difficult to take, it's too neat to be removed. It requires a lot of accuracy to be taken efficiently and reliably.

But honestly, while the math class track is a classic and is filled with a lot of visual goodies (in some ways, it tells a story if you look around everywhere), it is not really a good track. It seems optimized for novice speed... I like the idea of having a gimmick track with much shorter laps than normal, I like having a track with very tight turns, but Math Class is both ugly and flawed from a gameplay perspective.

In many ways it's STK history, but in my opinion it needs either to be replaced or a serious redesign. But if we get better textures instead of some of the ugly ones and redesign the path (to make it a bit lengthier (think 15s (14 shortcut) instead of 12s (10 shortcut), not 30s...) and to have a "chair shortcut" that's less overpowered, among other things), would it still be maths class ? And it could be made so the "chairs shortcut" is a bit more flexible (it's too easy to trap it with gum).

All the rulers and books placed with nitro atop are completely useless in the current version if you don't play in novice or maybe intermediate, changing the shortcut would not address such flaws.

Players from ancient times will remember that the current section out of the class is already a redesign of the old Math class that was even shorter, simpler and uglier.


Yep as I said here I already changed my mind on how to balance the paths:
SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:On another note after testing the track again I changed my mind on how to balance the shortcut. I think the better solution is to add a zipper to the main route.
Back in the day there were already 2 zippers on the track if I'm not mistaken, adding the second one back would be a good solution I think.

The shortcut would remain the slightly faster route but also be the harder and more risky one.

I think it would also be a good idea to add an invisble driveline to the shortcut, to prevent rescues that cause massive time losses and it will also fix the "wrong way" message popping up sometimes


I would really like to keep the track the same gameplay wise (exept for the balance tuning) I really like how different it is compared to all other tracks.
I also don't mind it's graphics atm, but if you don't like them I could also improve them.
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby Alayan » 14 Nov 2023, 02:39

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Oh I didn't realize it was meant to be a trap. I still think even when it's changed so it's harder not to fall, it shouldn't be as slow as it currently is.
A thing that might be cool would be to make the hole larger (more destroyed or something) the further the race progresses, not sure if there are possibilities to do something like that with scripting.

That's cool in theory, but how do you handle 15 laps races ?

Maybe there should be some kind of "haunting" there so the path gets rebuilt, redestroyed, etc. if you race for more laps.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:I think it would also be a good idea to add an invisble driveline to the shortcut, to prevent rescues that cause massive time losses and it will also fix the "wrong way" message popping up sometimes

Yes, I think that would be nice. An issue however is that a kart put back there by thunderbird would basically completely block the path, which isn't too fun for the player behind that's going to collide.

Another side effect of invisible drivelines is that the distance and therefore position counters doesn't go crazy. It also makes ghost recording display correct time for the same reason. There are some other standard tracks that could take invisible drivelines for correct distance reporting, although I don't know if there is currently a possibility to have a "no rescue enabled" driveline or not.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:I would really like to keep the track the same gameplay wise (exept for the balance tuning) I really like how different it is compared to all other tracks
I also don't mind it's graphics atm, but if you don't like them I could also improve them.

I was perhaps too harsh, but the fact that half of the interesting elements to drive on in the track are useless if you don't play at baby speed displeases me. It would be cool if going sometimes over a ruler to grab nitro would be viable, at least with a light kart (better nitro use, easier to maneuver with tight curves).

The graphics don't bother me that much, but I feel it's not up to the standard set by the really nice tracks we have, and so some upgrade would be welcome, in the perspective of a STK 2.0 that tries to look better than a 2008 game.
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 15 Nov 2023, 00:43

Here are my first three attempts of rebalancing tracks for 2.0


Cocoa Temple:
- replaced the banana of the first left split path with a giftbox
- added 4 small nitro rows to the left path trough the village
- swapped the nitro and item on the right path trough the village
- changed the 3 nitros after the jump into a single nitro row
- removed the big nitro can on the secret shortcut and added 2 small nitro cans instead

fastest and slowest path should now be around a 2 second difference per lap



Grand Paradiso Island:
- added a strong zipper to the left path under the bridge
- added 2 big nitro cans to the secret shortcut and changed shape and speed of the cannon

I also tried to remove the cannon completly which partly worked but also felt weird, let me know if it feels okay as it is rn or if that part needs further tuning.

(please ignore that the checklines are placed weirdly atm, was for testing things quicker)

fastest and slowest path should now be around a 1.5 second difference per lap
I believe the fastest path is now taking the first right split path, and jumping down into the secret shortcut from the big jump.




Oliver’s Math Class:
- added 2 soft zippers to the main route
- added an invisible driveline to the shortcut which is ignored by Ais

the difference between the 2 routes should be around 0.8 seconds per lap


pls let me know what you think of those changes, and also if the times I got are accurate or if you guys get different times.

I tested every track on supertux difficulty, Cocoa Temple and Grand Paradiso Island with a medium kart and Oliver’s Math Class with a light kart


download link: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zzrvs37v ... m9whz&dl=0
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby Alayan » 15 Nov 2023, 02:59

The issue I had opened for Cocoa Temple for reference https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-cod ... 1026675875

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:- removed the big nitro can on the secret shortcut and added 2 small nitro cans instead


I think this is unnecessary with the "big nitro can gives 2.5 nitro" tweak in the experimental balance, and a big nitro is more fun.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:I also tried to remove the cannon completly which partly worked but also felt weird, let me know if it feels okay as it is rn or if that part needs further tuning.

I would really like to see if a zipper jump can be done instead (the strength of the ground zipper doesn't need to be particularly high).

I will have to test the changes.
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby Alayan » 18 Nov 2023, 18:23

I spent a lot of time typing, and my answer went down the drain...

Alright, so I was saying I tested Cocoa Temple 2.0 rebalance with 2.X experimental balance using medium karts and one light kart.

To make things shorter, let's call the left ground zipper path 1L, the main one on the right 1R. Likewise the left village path is 2L, the left-village path + nitro room is 2LS, the right-village path is 2R, the right-village path with the secret beach is 2RS, and jumping from the ground zipper in 2R towards the 2L path is 2RXL.

In difficulty, 1R is easier than 1L although not very much. 2L is the easiest then 2LS is harder, 2R slightly harder than 2LS, 2RS harder than 2R, and 2RXL is perhaps the hardest.

In term of times, 1L is competitive with 1R, and in time-trial it allows to save up a zipper. My best time using 1L is 2s better than my best time using 1R.

The slowest of the next paths is not 2L but 2LS, as instead of 0 vs 5 nitro it's now 4 vs 7.5. 2RS is probably slightly better than 2R if you take 1R, but if you have a zipper 2R is probably faster. In any case, 2R is very good, as you have huge space to chain two purple skids and it is not that challenging. With 1L+2R my record is 2s better than with 1R+2RS. I haven't properly evaluated 2RXL, it beats 2L for sure but it's likely not worth the trouble in general. Still, with the differences in nitro distribution, I think it's at least quite decent.

Using a light on 2LS (the most nitro-heavy path) was slower than with a medium, but not dramatically so. Not viable for competitive time-trials, but definitely usable in multiplayer.

I won't comment on the changes I like, but I will comment on a few I think need new tweaks:

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:- added 4 small nitro rows to the left path trough the village

I would remove the second one, that's placed in the section to which 2LS is an alternative, in order to make 2LS more interesting.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:- changed the 3 nitros after the jump into a single nitro row

The old ones made the path too good, but as an upside it requires good control to get them. The new ones are easy to get, and 2R is too good at the moment I believe. I suggest, get rid of the row entirely.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:- removed the big nitro can on the secret shortcut and added 2 small nitro cans instead

I wasn't too sold on the beach small nitro at first, but it's ok it makes the secret a bit more discoverable and it's a bit of a challenge to get. But I would restore the small nitro next to the zipper jump into a big nitro.

With both of my suggestions, the net change of nitro for this path would be +0.5, and +1.5 relatively to 2R. I think this would bring the right balance between these paths.

Other things in the track to change in general :
- A lot of curves should be made smoother.
- There is a kind of invisible wall in the air close to the 4th flag on the left in the big curve before the temple. I hit it a couple time when doing the 2RS jump, and it's infuriating.
- There should be a splash effect when the karts hit the water (rescue triggers soon after touching the water but it's still unsatisfactory).
- The borders in the 1L path needs to be revised so that a collision doesn't throw the kart off the ground.
- The ground zipper inside the temple needs fixing. I'm not going to type all it needs right now, however, I don't want to make again the analysis I lost when my page was closed.
- Fixes for proper time display in some sections (secret path, jump at the end). An invisible driveline would work for the secret path, but I think it would also allow rescue in the secret path. It would be good if the game had a way to have an invisible driveline for distance / rank computation but not for rescue.
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Alayan
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby Bird » 19 Nov 2023, 22:11

If you're reworking the tracks, could you have a look at the checklines in the Old Mine? In some situations, a kart gets thrown behind one of the wodden poles, sometimes making the player lose a whole lap.
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Bird
 
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Re: Track re-balance for 2.0

Postby Alayan » 28 Nov 2023, 22:23

Something not specifically linked to the rebalance but which I noticed in Gran Paradisio:

- The first big curve from the start in the normal direction allows a bunch of jumps (1) onto the airstrip (2) back onto the main beach.
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Alayan
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