Alpine Valley

Alpine Valley

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 18 Apr 2023, 21:00

Hey guys,

I've been able to work on this green valley remake again.

I have completed the changes I would make to the main road yesterday.

But I was wondering if my fellow green valley lovers would prefer if I wouldn't change as much of the road? Most of the road is of course still the same, but I made a few changes and added a short alternative part.

I want to make sure that the players who really like green valley will still like this tracks gameplay, before I start to model the whole world.

downlaod link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqn2sgrajommc ... 2.zip?dl=0
alpinevalley-2023.04.18_20.33.06.jpg



note: the driveline is not adjusted yet, and a lot of stuff might look really weird still.
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Re: Alpine Valley

Postby eltomito » 19 Apr 2023, 22:40

I like the mountains in the distance. Overall, the track lost the atmosphere of the Green Valley. It might be because of the music which I really hate or maybe it's because it isn't finished yet, so you don't get the big views of breathtaking landscapes and stuff.
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Re: Alpine Valley

Postby Polo10 » 20 Apr 2023, 17:19

Hi Sven,
I also tested the track.
It is great only I agree with eltomito it is much less green valley. But it is still very beautiful and it is a good track. It just has a different feel to Green Valley.
Have a nice day !!!
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Re: Alpine Valley

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 20 Apr 2023, 22:51

eltomito {l Wrote}:I like the mountains in the distance. Overall, the track lost the atmosphere of the Green Valley. It might be because of the music which I really hate or maybe it's because it isn't finished yet, so you don't get the big views of breathtaking landscapes and stuff.


Ohh your'e right I completly forgot about the music.
I think giving the original Valley music back to Alpine Valley and giving Black forest a new one would be the best way.

Mood of the track will change yes. That change is intended to make it distinct from Black Forest.

Breathtaking scenery will of course come back once the track will advance further.
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Re: Alpine Valley

Postby Alayan » 13 Nov 2023, 18:13

I love this track demo. It has plenty of excellent ideas.

The texture changes to make the track feel like an alpine road are great. The bridges and tunnels look great. The side roads making it feel like part of a greater world. The dam is a fantastic choice although it will obviously need more modelling.

I like the idea of the alternative road, but I do feel that the layout changes around the dam make the curves less challenging. I think the dam should stay more or less as is, but what about putting a hairpin or two in the sections after the dam ? Hairpins would enhance the "alpine mountain" feeling so it's a win both on making it less "gentle curves that heavy karts loves" and more thematically appropriate. I also think this section of the road should not be visible from the bridge near the start line.

It's maybe also worth considering a small secret section somewhere like samuncle has been putting in e.g. Cocoa Temple, Grand Paradisio, Ravenbridge. Even if it's not too important to make a good time, it's rewarding for players to find it. Likewise discrete references to other tracks are usually great, although there are not many opportunities for it in Alpine Valley.

Really an excellent start full of potential.
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Re: Alpine Valley

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 13 Nov 2023, 22:29

Alayan {l Wrote}:I love this track demo. It has plenty of excellent ideas.

Glad to hear that you like it so far! ;)

Alayan {l Wrote}:I like the idea of the alternative road, but I do feel that the layout changes around the dam make the curves less challenging. I think the dam should stay more or less as is, but what about putting a hairpin or two in the sections after the dam ? Hairpins would enhance the "alpine mountain" feeling so it's a win both on making it less "gentle curves that heavy karts loves" and more thematically appropriate. I also think this section of the road should not be visible from the bridge near the start line.


Yeah I agree that it's a bit less challenging now. The hairpin idea is cool, but I think it would only fit for the new path, as the old path on the left is rather flat so a hairpin wouldn't be realistic. If i add a hairpin to the new path I would also have to somehow extend the old path in oder to keep them balanced.

Why don't you like that this section can be seen from the bridge? I personally always love it when parts of the track can be seen from other places of the track, gives me the feel like I'm really driving trough a world.


Alayan {l Wrote}:It's maybe also worth considering a small secret section somewhere like samuncle has been putting in e.g. Cocoa Temple, Grand Paradisio, Ravenbridge. Even if it's not too important to make a good time, it's rewarding for players to find it. Likewise discrete references to other tracks are usually great, although there are not many opportunities for it in Alpine Valley.

You mean just a hidden shortcut that's not easy to find?

References to other tracks could maybe be done with some signs or something like that.


Here is a slighty updated version of the track: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/p1gs34bs ... ol6jo&dl=0
Mostly contains some visual upgrades, tought I might as well just share it :)
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Re: Alpine Valley

Postby Alayan » 14 Nov 2023, 02:06

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Yeah I agree that it's a bit less challenging now. The hairpin idea is cool, but I think it would only fit for the new path, as the old path on the left is rather flat so a hairpin wouldn't be realistic. If i add a hairpin to the new path I would also have to somehow extend the old path in oder to keep them balanced.


What I find a bit strange with the new path is that it changes height much more than the dirt path, when mountain roads tend to exploit flatter parts a lot. Maybe have the road go up before reaching the dam, the dam higher so the elevation afterwards is more logical. Throwing ideas.

Yes, balancing the left path with the new path gets trickier if a hairpin is added to the new path, I am not sure how it should be done.


SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Why don't you like that this section can be seen from the bridge? I personally always love it when parts of the track can be seen from other places of the track, gives me the feel like I'm really driving trough a world.

I like it in general. The other day I went up the stairs in the Black Forest house and the view from the balcony on the rest of the track is gorgeous.

The reason I don't really like it in this instance is because it highlights the path taken by the road as strange, whereas seeing the monastery, the train bridge and so on from the Black Forest house doesn't.

I feel like the new bridges you added where the asphalt road starts/ends do a great job at giving the "driving through a world" feeling.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:You mean just a hidden shortcut that's not easy to find?

Yes, something that rewards exploration and that can easily be missed even if you play the track 10 times, if you don't actually look for special places. I don't know yet where / how to place it, though. Regarding balancing, I think if it gives 0.2s bonus or so (well driven vs well driven), it's fine, it shouldn't be "take it or you'll lose", but it should be worth going for sometimes.

I'm thinking now that all samuncle shortcuts tend to feature a big nitro can. That's neat in a way, but that also means that they tend to be more appealing for lights rather than for heavies. If Gran Paradisio paths are rebalanced, I could imagine the secret path being best for light karts (they can take the big curve tightly and benefit from the nitro) and the upper part through the bridge and airport track being best for heavies.

I wonder if shortcuts could be made that give an advantage to heavies...

But that's also an interesting way to look at balancing paths. Until now we've mostly looked at "difficulty vs time gained", which was certainly a good approach, but what if some path is heavy-friendly and another light-friendly ? There is some interesting designing possibilities in this direction.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:References to other tracks could maybe be done with some signs or something like that.

Yes maybe.
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