Brainstorming : Distinguish between Nitro & Slipstream

[hikari.to.yami]

As we all know the nitro and slipstream characteristic are resemble to each other. Some player might mistakenly think that the AI using nitro even when the game is just begin - which mean they haven't got any nitros - (read here : http://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1622))

Some ideas that already came to the surface are :
1. Assign different sound for each of them.
2. "That is a good idea, but not everyone drives with sound, so a more visual difference would be even better. Maybe change the coloring or opacity for slipstream particles?" (by Arthur)
3. "Maybe instead of showing nitro-like particles, the wind effect could be intensified during the boost ?" (by Kinsu)

[Turtle]

I think both 1 and 2 should be implemented. Make slipstream sound like very fast winds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PazmXWSOchw
Or maybe something more like "whoosh!"
And perhaps nitro sound like the real thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ1TgrcnU2E
Or maybe something less loud and more "vrooooom!"

As for visual, make slipstream a grayish/smokey colored nitro?
Just my 2-cents.

[Auria]

I like the sound idea; though we would need to tweak it carefully so that it does not get annoying.

Also showing different particles when using slistream is probably a good idea; or maybe fire coming from the kart tires ?

[kingtux]

I don't drive with the sound on, so thanks for mentioning that.

Nothing tells what slipstreaming and that other funky thing are. I'm a reasonably experienced STK driver and I still don't understand it. It's almost like a cheat - you have an advantage if you know about it, and the help doesn't tell about it

[Turtle]

I don't drive with the sound on, so thanks for mentioning that.

Nothing tells what slipstreaming and that other funky thing are. I'm a reasonably experienced STK driver and I still don't understand it. It's almost like a cheat - you have an advantage if you know about it, and the help doesn't tell about it

There is an indicator when someone is riding behind you (you see a small wind effect on your back). I agree though, that after they speed through is hard to tell how they got it (or if they get it from another AI kart you can't see).

[hikari.to.yami]

I don't drive with the sound on, so thanks for mentioning that.

Nothing tells what slipstreaming and that other funky thing are. I'm a reasonably experienced STK driver and I still don't understand it. It's almost like a cheat - you have an advantage if you know about it, and the help doesn't tell about it

Ya, 1st time I use v 0.7.1 I also feel the same way. When the race just get started the adversaries suddenly got the speed boost out of nowhere. And I said "What the?...". If I weren't coincidently got slipstream, I would think that they are cheating.

I think the Help menu should explain it on the General tab.

I like the sound idea; though we would need to tweak it carefully so that it does not get annoying.

Also showing different particles when using slistream is probably a good idea; or maybe fire coming from the kart tires ?

Mmm... I don't know if fire coming from the kart tires are realistic, actually the idea that fire coming from the rear part of the kart is kinda unrealistic too since slipstream is the pulling force caused by the air movement

My bad, I love physics and chemistry, and I love to pay attention to the very detail so I almost can't stand unrealistic stuff. But if most of us agree with the unrealistic yet artistic one I don't mind either

IMO I think the slipstream effect should be like when you behind other kart (small wind effect) but bolder and maybe we can add some sparkle on it.

[Kinsu]

Nothing tells what slipstreaming and that other funky thing are. I'm a reasonably experienced STK driver and I still don't understand it. It's almost like a cheat - you have an advantage if you know about it, and the help doesn't tell about it

I think it's rather obvious : when you stays behind a kart, you clearly see the slipstream effect.

Or maybe something more like "whoosh!"

I agree with that.

And perhaps nitro sound like the real thing

I think the real nitro boost sound is some kind of a whistling injection sound, a little like here at 0:07.

maybe fire coming from the kart tires ?

I think we should let fire to the nitro... and use some wind effect for the slipstream, as this is precisely what created the confusion...

hikari.to.yami : +1

[Kinsu]

some kind of a whistling injection sound

I found a nice one here, when the marine closes its helmet at 4:08.

[hikari.to.yami]

hikari.to.yami : +1

What does that mean? Sorry I'm still newbie here

Hmmm... I would like to listen to the sound, but my connection is very slow right now , I'll try to listen to those later

[hiker]

Nothing tells what slipstreaming and that other funky thing are. I'm a reasonably experienced STK driver and I still don't understand it. It's almost like a cheat - you have an advantage if you know about it, and the help doesn't tell about it

Yes, we hope that someone works on the tutorial, which would explain all those details. We had someone doing this, but it looks like he stopped doing development - as always: help welcome
Cheers,
Joerg

[hiker]

Ya, 1st time I use v 0.7.1 I also feel the same way. When the race just get started the adversaries suddenly got the speed boost out of nowhere. And I said "What the?...". If I weren't coincidently got slipstream, I would think that they are cheating.

I actually think that there is still a bug in STK which sometimes results in karts having slipstream or nitro at start (usually restart, but we recently had a ticket showing this at a fresh start). Unfortunately we have not been able to reproduce this (so far). So there is a fair chance that there might actually be a bug.

I think the Help menu should explain it on the General tab.

Well, the help menu is getting crowded or long, so I think the idea of having a tutorial is still very good. It will at once tell people what is around, but also give them an environment where they can try it out.

I like the sound idea; though we would need to tweak it carefully so that it does not get annoying.

Also showing different particles when using slistream is probably a good idea; or maybe fire coming from the kart tires ?

Mmm... I don't know if fire coming from the kart tires are realistic, actually the idea that fire coming from the rear part of the kart is kinda unrealistic too since slipstream is the pulling force caused by the air movement

Sorry, we are not into realistic physics here

My bad, I love physics and chemistry, and I love to pay attention to the very detail so I almost can't stand unrealistic stuff. But if most of us agree with the unrealistic yet artistic one I don't mind either

Playability will come first, then art imho. Also slip stream might get changes as part of the 0.8 work on the physics.

IMO I think the slipstream effect should be like when you behind other kart (small wind effect) but bolder and maybe we can add some sparkle on it.

I admit I used the nitro because it was something I could easily re-use. Adding some kind of sparks, and/or perhaps changing the colour of the 'wind' effect to show how close you are to getting a boost will all work, and I would be glad for a patch!

Cheers,
Joerg

[hiker]

hikari.to.yami : +1

What does that mean? Sorry I'm still newbie here

It means he agrees with you ('one more vote for this').

[hikari.to.yami]

Yes, we hope that someone works on the tutorial, which would explain all those details. We had someone doing this, but it looks like he stopped doing development - as always: help welcome
Cheers,
Joerg

What it takes to help? Does it need some programming capability? Or some graphic editing?

It means he agrees with you ('one more vote for this').

Thanks for the explanation Joerg

I actually think that there is still a bug in STK which sometimes results in karts having slipstream or nitro at start (usually restart, but we recently had a ticket showing this at a fresh start). Unfortunately we have not been able to reproduce this (so far). So there is a fair chance that there might actually be a bug.

There was a time when I played with so many AI Kart (about 14 or 16, I kinda forgot) in Skyline track when I can get nitro even when the race just started since the nitro right in front of me

Well, the help menu is getting crowded or long, so I think the idea of having a tutorial is still very good. It will at once tell people what is around, but also give them an environment where they can try it out.

Tutorial? Like some kind of separated pdf/html file?

Sorry, we are not into realistic physics here
Playability will come first, then art imho. Also slip stream might get changes as part of the 0.8 work on the physics.

lol, ya, I realize that when I read STK in wikipedia, here's the quote :

Full Circle Magazine named SuperTuxKart as one of the top five racing games available for Linux, describing it as the game to try if you're "tired of realistic driving". [9] Linux Journal also praised the game, saying that "the courses in SuperTuxKart are fun, colorful and imaginative" and that "If you've played the original, you'll be impressed by the new, hugely improved, SuperTuxKart." [10]

I'm sorry guys, since I'm the new guy here I think I still need to learn a lot about the culture in here

IMO I think the slipstream effect should be like when you behind other kart (small wind effect) but bolder and maybe we can add some sparkle on it.

I admit I used the nitro because it was something I could easily re-use. Adding some kind of sparks, and/or perhaps changing the colour of the 'wind' effect to show how close you are to getting a boost will all work, and I would be glad for a patch!

Cheers,
Joerg

+1 for this idea

[hikari.to.yami]

I think both 1 and 2 should be implemented. Make slipstream sound like very fast winds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PazmXWSOchw
Or maybe something more like "whoosh!"
And perhaps nitro sound like the real thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ1TgrcnU2E
Or maybe something less loud and more "vrooooom!"

Um... isn't it a bit noisy? Actually I prefer the whistle or hissing sound

I think the real nitro boost sound is some kind of a whistling injection sound, a little like here at 0:07.

This one is better but still a bit noisy

some kind of a whistling injection sound

I found a nice one here, when the marine closes its helmet at 4:08.

This one is good but isn't it too short?

How about funny whistling sound like when you step on the "speed up pad" (sorry, don't know what it real name is)

[hiker]

Yes, we hope that someone works on the tutorial, which would explain all those details. We had someone doing this, but it looks like he stopped doing development - as always: help welcome
Cheers,
Joerg

What it takes to help? Does it need some programming capability? Or some graphic editing?

Definitely programming. Once a framework has been implemented, it might be possible to just write some text files (though I am not sure of that, it depends on the implementation).

...

Well, the help menu is getting crowded or long, so I think the idea of having a tutorial is still very good. It will at once tell people what is around, but also give them an environment where they can try it out.

Tutorial? Like some kind of separated pdf/html file?

No, in-game. A bit like a set of challenges, which explains what the goal is (e.g. how slipstream works, and e.g. that you should try to get one slipstream bonus), then start a race (with appropriate AI settings and an easy, potentially specifically designed track).

Cheers,
Joerg

[hikari.to.yami]

Definitely programming. Once a framework has been implemented, it might be possible to just write some text files (though I am not sure of that, it depends on the implementation).

...

Um... In that case I can't help, the only language I learn (seriously) is just python and a bit PHP. I used to learn C, but just in a short time. STK written in C++ right?

No, in-game. A bit like a set of challenges, which explains what the goal is (e.g. how slipstream works, and e.g. that you should try to get one slipstream bonus), then start a race (with appropriate AI settings and an easy, potentially specifically designed track).

Whoa, I like that idea! Wish that I can contribute

[hikari.to.yami]

Definitely programming. Once a framework has been implemented, it might be possible to just write some text files (though I am not sure of that, it depends on the implementation).

...

whoops, I miss the "it might be possible to just write some text files" part, maybe there is some hope after all

[hiker]

whoops, I miss the "it might be possible to just write some text files" part, maybe there is some hope after all

But don't ignore the 'depending on implementation' part. It would be a lot more implementation work to be able to specify everything in text files. Many things would be trivial (e.g. which track, what and how many karts, which item you have at start) - but others would involve more programming (e.g. for slipstream tests the AI might need to slow down if the kart is too far behind or so). And adding all of this 'one time' changes to the text files adds some overhead.

I mean if we had enough developer someone could add support for a scripting language, but I can't see that happening any time soon.

Cheers,
Joerg