Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby fodoman » 22 Mar 2021, 23:18

I really like the design of this track and its BGM. It has a very nice theme to it.

The block textures and colors suggest that it could very well be a nice coastal city in Al Axandria, based on port cities of Eastern Africa that were affiliated with some old, relatively powerful empire of the past. Oya, Ashanti, Ghana, etc. to name a few.

I'm not suggesting it out of some odd and warped social media ideology, but because it is something new, interesting and refreshing that has not been done many times in games yet. If done well and properly, it could boost your portfolio and even your image as a game designer.
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tlbomb » 10 Apr 2021, 21:06

tempAnon093 {l Wrote}:
tlbomb {l Wrote}:This could actually be a nice track, once it's finished. It is already fun to race. I think that this track should be added to the main tracks if it has got nice graphic design.
I really appreciate the work of (track-) designing and modelling. ;)

Thanks! I'm very glad to hear that you appreciate the work :)
I definitely designed it to be fun to race, with challenging turns and a nice theme. I doubt it will get to the main tracks simply because there are some very difficult turns (the U-turns and blind corner near the water) that might be too challenging for beginners to put in the main, especially since the AI karts can't do the U-turns properly yet.
With that said, it will probably become a featured track add-on once I have time to make it look good with proper houses.


Another idea: Doesn't that cute town by the sea deserve a Lighthouse? ;)
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby theodorepringle » 18 Apr 2021, 06:59

I did some testing here, in the current version heavyweights should definitely be fastest in time trial, but not by much compared to most other tracks, especially for the first lap it's very close between a heavyweight and a middleweight.

I don't really like tracks such as Minigolf with a very narrow road and too many sharp turns, but here the road is wide and there are only a few really difficult turns, so I think it's fine. Regarding some other things that were discussed here, I don't think it's a problem that there aren't many places to get a red skid here, there aren't really any places where getting a red skid is useful in XR591 for instance. I'm also not sure about having an alternate path or shortcut, they can sometimes add to gameplay but a lot of the currently existing ones in official tracks aren't really that well balanced, and I feel like the track doesn't really need one. Overall the gameplay in this track is pretty decent, the graphics could be improved though.
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tempAnon093 » 25 Apr 2021, 06:50

tlbomb {l Wrote}:Another idea: Doesn't that cute town by the sea deserve a Lighthouse? ;)

You're right! Thanks for the hint.
theodorepringle {l Wrote}:Overall the gameplay in this track is pretty decent, the graphics could be improved though.

Thank you! I understand the graphics aren't great, and that's being improved on as you can begin to see here. There is still a long way to go.
I agree that the track doesn't need a shortcut, but I felt it would be enjoyable to have as a challenge and really suited the atmosphere. It's so risky that I'm unsure how many people will try it in online races.

Revision 5
Major changes are:
- Added lighthouse
- Improved appearance of buildings, still more work to be done
- Added concrete under road
- Added more natural materials like grass, rock, plants and sand
- Added a proper shortcut with nitro. It's very difficult to take quickly without a light kart, but gives one extra nitro
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tlbomb » 26 Apr 2021, 19:36

Hey Guys! I just played the track, and I gotta say... thank you! This is already great, and thank you for adding the lighthouse . Those are just something everybody likes, and they are a nice feature for very track by the sea. I noticed that you used the same lighthouse model as in the track "Around the lighthouse", which is not bad, but if every track by the sea features the same lighthouse it gets kinda... weird. As long as it's only 2 tracks with the same lighthouses, it all remains as great as before :D.
(sorry for my bad english, I'm german :shock: )
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tempAnon093 » 27 Apr 2021, 02:54

tlbomb {l Wrote}:I noticed that you used the same lighthouse model as in the track "Around the lighthouse", which is not bad, but if every track by the sea features the same lighthouse it gets kinda... weird.

I'm glad you enjoyed it! I agree, I've changed the shape and coloring to be a little bit different.
tlbomb {l Wrote}:(sorry for my bad english, I'm german :shock: )

Don't worry, it's perfect :)
light.jpg
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tlbomb » 27 Apr 2021, 12:08

Thank you! :) :D
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby eltomito » 27 Apr 2021, 23:08

I tried the addons version today and the game play is fun. AI does really well on this track which I think is a good thing.
The textures of the architecture are boring but I think you've already said it isn't finished yet so when the walls get more interesting than a dull shade of brown, I'll be happy with it. :)

In some places, you can fall off the slightly elevated road and end up on some green stuff (grass?). Is it meant to be a death sentence or are you supposed to be able to get back on the road somewhere? I prefer the latter. Maybe make the surroundings slower to drive on or something.

But generally, I like it, it could be a great track like Frozen Drive is :)
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tempAnon093 » 28 Apr 2021, 00:38

eltomito {l Wrote}:The textures of the architecture are boring but I think you've already said it isn't finished yet so when the walls get more interesting than a dull shade of brown, I'll be happy with it. :)

Yes, those cubes are just placeholders to show where the buildings are and I will be adding more colors soon. I expect them to slowly turn into the actual houses instead of cubes, but it will take a while.
eltomito {l Wrote}:In some places, you can fall off the slightly elevated road and end up on some green stuff (grass?). Is it meant to be a death sentence or are you supposed to be able to get back on the road somewhere? I prefer the latter. Maybe make the surroundings slower to drive on or something.

Up the top, it's only because I haven't fixed the grass and sand yet, you will be able to drive back on. I'll prioritize this as it actually matters to the driving experience.
For the bit at the very start, I should probably put a reset there, although I do like being about to drive around down there...

Thank you very much, I'm glad you enjoy the track :)
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tlbomb » 28 Apr 2021, 14:39

Also: Could you do a mod of this track which is plays at night, so the lighthouse's bulb turns and shines? I'd love that!
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby eltomito » 01 May 2021, 22:45

I played today's version and I see some buildings appearing! Great! Also the roadside towards the end can be driven on.
A few comments:
1) When I try to collect the nitro that's on the down ramp behind the railing near the beginning of the track, my kart automatically rescues.
2) Could give the players more view of the sea? It seems to me that some buildings on the left side of the tracks near the beginning (e.g. in those two fast curves) could be removed completely to reveal the sea!
3) Maybe you could drive through some of the buildings. A house could straddle the road, so that you drive though a passage through it just to make things more interesting and involve the buildings more. Or a building could have an arcade with columns as a part of its front and the road could lead through it or the arcade could be next to the main road and have a nitro can in it or something.
4) how about making a part of the road sand or dirt or some different surface than the rest?
5) The road is very smooth and even. Could the cobblestones be somewhat bumpier in some neglected section of the road? Or a couple of them could be missing, so there is a hole in the road that's best avoided. There could be also grass growing between the cobblestones in some places just to make it look cool.
6) How about adding a food stand/kart somewhere? I think there's one in either the Scotland track or in Candela.

Thank you for this fun track!
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tlbomb » 02 May 2021, 17:18

I played the new version too; here's what I have to say:
1. I actually agree with elomito, the player should be given more view over the ocean.
2. Also, what I forgot to mention before, the name of the track promises a town on a rocky steep coast with a medium-sized harbour; both I kinda miss here :think: . It's not that awful, since there are no buffalos in Buffalo either, but I just wanted to mention that.
3. The lighthouse looks nice now, thank you! (Actually, it looks so nice that I wish you could see it more throughout the track. :lol: )

This is all I have to say for now, keep us updated and thank you for making those hard times a little better! :cool:
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tempAnon093 » 04 May 2021, 00:44

eltomito {l Wrote}:1) When I try to collect the nitro that's on the down ramp behind the railing near the beginning of the track, my kart automatically rescues.

I didn't notice this changed, I changed the behavior of a transparent material used there too. I'll add a quick fix.
eltomito {l Wrote}:2) Could give the players more view of the sea? It seems to me that some buildings on the left side of the tracks near the beginning (e.g. in those two fast curves) could be removed completely to reveal the sea!

Good idea, I'll see what I can do.
eltomito {l Wrote}:3) & 4)

I do want to keep things simple and not change the track too much, at least for now. I might add some more archways or buildings that border the road, and enclose the shortcut, but I don't want to put a house in the middle of this track. It would be fun, but maybe on another track.
eltomito {l Wrote}:5)

I like the idea of grass in there, I might add a little bit later. I do want to keep the track smooth since it is primarily for a high-speed racing experience and unpredictable bumps are unfair. That said, it would be nice to have in a more playful track, like an off-road one I have planned.
eltomito {l Wrote}:6) How about adding a food stand/kart somewhere?

That was the plan for the wide space after the first U-turn, but I had forgotten. Thanks for the tip!

Again those are all great suggestions in my opinion, although some of them I don't want to try on this track.

tlbomb {l Wrote}:[...] a rocky steep coast with a medium-sized harbour; both I kinda miss here :think:

I see your point, although there's only so much I can change now. I do plan to add more boats to create an actual harbour in front of where the lighthouse is, but there are many priorities, like fixing the fake houses!
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tlbomb » 07 May 2021, 21:28

Hello again,
I just played the updated version of the track, and now it's fine! The only thing left now are graphics :oops: ...
Remaining critics/ideas:
-Track is a little short

Harbour:
-a crane with a small container ship
-turning light bulb in the lighthouse (night-themed version of the track?)

Easter eggs:
-statues
-graffiti (STK logo, allusion to your favourite band, ...)
-Promotion for the STK fake Companies (Nolok Industries, TCP Delivery Service, Oceanic Airlines, Caldeira Island, Mandarava Motors, Canyon Junction Railway...)
the logos can be found here : https://supertuxkart.net/Style


I thank you once again for your hard work :cool: !
Last edited by tlbomb on 23 May 2021, 15:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby theodorepringle » 14 May 2021, 08:59

tlbomb {l Wrote}:-Track is a little short


The only standard tracks that are longer than this are Volcan Island and Black Forest, which are only 2 laps. I think the length of this track is good, it would be nice if the maingame had 3 lap tracks that were about 40-45 seconds per lap.

The shortcut here is definitely faster with lightweights, but probably about equal with middleweights and slower with heavyweights, so I think that it's reasonably well balanced.
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tlbomb » 23 May 2021, 15:57

Yeah, you're right, it just appeared a little short because I played it in SuperTux mode xD
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tempAnon093 » 04 Aug 2021, 03:35

kiki.jpg

Small update:
- Adjusted sand at finish to run alongside the track
- Added street decorations near start line
- Neatened up some draft parts
- Resized benches
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tlbomb » 11 Aug 2021, 14:05

Good job! I really enjoyed the ride. :D
Still one thing you could change though: the tree at the second turn.
No insult: It looks like a ball made of green aluminium foil with a big shashlik.
Bye :)
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tempAnon093 » 11 Aug 2021, 14:24

tlbomb {l Wrote}:Still one thing you could change though: the tree at the second turn.
No insult: It looks like a ball made of green aluminium foil with a big shashlik.

Haha, it almost is. :)
I see it so often I forget it looks silly, I'll fix it next update.
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tlbomb » 12 Aug 2021, 10:47

Thanks :cool:
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby Alayan » 06 Sep 2021, 23:51

tempAnon093 {l Wrote}:I definitely designed it to be fun to race, with challenging turns and a nice theme. I doubt it will get to the main tracks simply because there are some very difficult turns (the U-turns and blind corner near the water) that might be too challenging for beginners to put in the main, especially since the AI karts can't do the U-turns properly yet.
With that said, it will probably become a featured track add-on once I have time to make it look good with proper houses.


It's just my opinion, but I would personally support the inclusion of Grand Coastia in the base game if it reaches high enough graphical quality. Something like a 5/7 on my last track evaluation thread, which would be about the level of STK Enterprise in graphics, would be enough for me, but more advanced effects, quality details, textures... are always welcome. If you need the help of someone else for some stuff so be it, this track deserves to reach its full potential.

If the AI has some trouble, then the AI should be improved. If beginners struggle a bit even at novice speed (which makes things a lot easier), add some visual indicators about the upcoming curves, and just accept there will be some crashes. If the super casual Mario Kart series has been able to ship with "rainbow road" tracks where beginners fall off 3 times a lap, there is no need to worry as long as the AI is not too difficult to beat. Beginners get excited when they get big powerful powerups for being behind, and if they feel they have a good chance to not end dead last.
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby tempAnon093 » 09 Sep 2021, 01:06

Alayan {l Wrote}:It's just my opinion, but I would personally support the inclusion of Grand Coastia in the base game if it reaches high enough graphical quality.

Thank you! I do think it would be nice if someone were willing to help out, since it's an amateurish creation with some easy wins from a more experienced designer.

Alayan {l Wrote}:If the AI has some trouble, then the AI should be improved.

I think the biggest issue on this track is that karts try to cut the sharpest corners.
The driveline is a bit close to the wall, so I can try adjusting that if you agree. (see images)
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Re: Track: Grand Coastia (Work In Progress, feedback wanted)

Postby Alayan » 09 Sep 2021, 17:49

That's just the AI being coded in a retarded way when it comes to corner-taking. That's a long standing issue (I thnk it started as a bug), which led to tweaked drivelines to prevent the AI from failing catastrophically, which led to no fix to the AI because an AI coded to not go cut too much would be slower.

I think it's worth taking any hit necessary on tracks with fake drivelines, in order to get a correctly behaving AI that works great on tracks with proper drivelines. Then tracks can be progressively fixed to give truthful information and make the AI perform better.

An old idea of mine would be to have two drivelines types, the main driveline (no slowdown, wall, fall) and the "can go over" drivelines (slowdown, but no wall or fall). Unfortunately that's a lot of work and a bit of a chicken-and-egg issue.
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