Forest Track

Re: Forest Track

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 03 Sep 2018, 21:59

The tress are lods so they are linked in STK. But the lod instance objects in blender aren't linked.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Auria » 03 Sep 2018, 23:53

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Thanks to everybody :)


@ Auria The file has a lot of textures and also I duplicated all trees with shift D (not linked) so every single tree has an own mesh.
At the moment I can't check the blend file because I have a login loop problem with linux mint.
When I can check the file again, I will take a look and see what I can do to get the file smaller.


ok thanks. Maybe you can upload the textures and blend file separately, it's possible to have multiple source files
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Re: Forest Track

Postby psypherium » 05 Sep 2018, 14:54

There is a little bit of slowdown at the last corner before the finish line I think, except for that it is perfect. Just too much CPU usage by that beautiful pond and cottage, and also near the dirt and wood steps. The bananas there are just slightly too close too each other, Incredibly punishing especially on supertux speed.

Forwards 20 Laps

youtu.be/rjb4lDBXvRk

Reverse 20 Laps

youtu.be/Em-dncvdZ4o


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Re: Forest Track

Postby samuncle » 09 Sep 2018, 23:36

Hi

I just wanted to give a big thumb up and huge congratulation. You nailed it, you took time to read our documentation, reuse what we did.
It looks amazing, it's full of details and packed with some amazing landscape view.

Since we released STK with the new engine not many people took time to do this which saddened me a little bit, since I tried to make track creation as easy as possible.

Highlight (things I really like)
* The castle is very cool, the village too, I like how the river flows in one direction :).
* You created a lovely scenery, it follow what we could except in a real valley. The way things are constructed looks very natural.
* I like the castle and it's glass panel
* I love the fact that you created a HUGE landscape around and the world doesn't just stop abruptly at the track.
* I just releazed there is something inside one of the house O_O I LOVE YOUR WORK
* There is a train, power lines running around, a combine, it's just lovely.
* You took time to create transition between the road and the terrain around. I know this is hard to do and takes so much time (hopefully there will be something helping this in the new stk version).

I have a few suggestion to make it better (of course you are free to take them or not).
* Almost everything fits the black forest theme however there are tiki torches, IMHO you could have stayed with old school lanterns/medieval lighting.
* Use edge split to avoid weird shadowing especially for the lodges and wooden house. This will help to give a crispy look around the edges
* Change the color of the fog to blue. In reality everything is slightly blue, due to the sky. Having a blue fog helps a lot. Try to have the same color for the fog and the skybox it helps blending stuff together.
* Try to change the color of the sun (the one that emit and the one for god rays). The one for god rays can have an almost carton yellow, while the one for emission can be less yellow.
* Avoid big red weird font for the sign. It looks very out of place, same for the green arrow. Try to blend them, like I did in cocoa temple by choosing less obvious colors.
* There is in the middle of the forest in the distance a powerline that no one can see, it could be removed :p (although I'm impressed by the level of details).
* Try to put less grass in the middle of nowhere and more close to the road especially in between the road and the terrain. You can reduce the amount of grass and still give a nice heavy vegetation feeling.

Bugs that aren't your fault and would help to make this track look better
* The lamps, light, windows are turned on even if it's daytime (I know this isn't your fault, and I actually fixed it in the upcoming version of supertuxkart. It detects if it's during day and turn off light emission of certain objects.
* The fog in the valley cross the geometry and it looks weird, but this isn't your fault, it's an issue in rendering and you motivate me to fix it!
* We see tilling patterns, but again it's not your fault and in the upcoming version it's partially fixed!
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Re: Forest Track

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 13 Sep 2018, 22:02

Thank you very much :)

I'm busy at the moment - I'll give a more specific answer in two weeks.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Alayan » 24 Sep 2018, 19:00

You should have a look at the AI resetting endlessly in the reverse video of Alistair. While the AI could use improvements to be smart enough to not enter an infinite reset loop ; I suspect it drives straight into the rock because the drivequads mark this area as drivable. If the drivequads are correct and do not encroach on the rocky areas themselves (but cover the road ground close around them), let me know (in that case, it's an AI bug, so keep the drivequads showing the road and let me fix the AI).

For some reason, your track is also now crashing in the current git version, due to some code change between the 0.9.3 version. I'm putting the error message here for future reference, as it may help to debug it before inclusion in the main release.

/stk-code/src/graphics/lod_node.cpp:260: void LODNode::add(int, irr::scene::ISceneNode*, bool): Assertion `m_detail.back()<level*level' failed
Last edited by Alayan on 04 Oct 2018, 13:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby deve » 29 Sep 2018, 21:37

Regarding to the "assertion failed" when starting the track, it seems that you incorrectly marked models as LOD objects. Looking at your scene.xml, there is a lot of objects with the same lod distance in single group, for example:
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
   <group name="_single_lod_bench">
    <static-object lod_distance="120" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench.spm" xyz="209.57 44.45 439.37" hpr="0.0 17.5 0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
    <static-object lod_distance="120" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench.spm" xyz="59.69 -15.85 232.00" hpr="0.0 33.1 0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
    <static-object lod_distance="120" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench.spm" xyz="369.34 36.77 314.73" hpr="0.0 -73.5 0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
    <static-object lod_distance="120" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench.spm" xyz="441.35 55.59 384.43" hpr="-0.0 -160.5 -0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
   </group>


If you want to use lod, it should be something like this (with different lod distance and different spm model):
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
   <group name="_single_lod_bench">
    <static-object lod_distance="120" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench-hq.spm" xyz="209.57 44.45 439.37" hpr="0.0 17.5 0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
    <static-object lod_distance="240" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench-lq.spm" xyz="59.69 -15.85 232.00" hpr="0.0 33.1 0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
   </group>


And for single lod probably each model needs its own group.

Actually maybe we could just ignore objects with the same lod distance rather than crash whole game...

And the track itself is heavy, but it looks great and maybe it could be good replacement for Green Valley track?
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Re: Forest Track

Postby QwertyChouskie » 10 Oct 2018, 00:15

Any updates on getting a source file published? I'd love to see this track become an official track!
Not an official dev, but a huge fan of STK!
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Alayan » 15 Oct 2018, 19:31

After some testing, I can say that the monastery path is faster than the normal path even if hitting one banana - it takes two bananas to make them about equal (it depends on what the banana yields). It is possible to not hit any banana while not slowing down, but it is highly unlikely even for a good player.

I expect that for most players who'd have trouble hitting only two bananas and skidding without accident, the hierarchy "harder but faster" roughly stands, though the bottom path itself isn't entirely trivial for them either.

Still, I'd recommend not requiring such a razor-thin margin with the bananas : when the technique required is too precise, executing it starts to become too luck-based.

I feared that the train tunnel path would be too fast, but after some tests it seems that this is not the case. Doing it without slowing down due to some collision is hard, and even then the benefit is small compared to the main path done correctly, which is a good balance.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby adevairhpj » 25 Oct 2018, 22:43

Game crashes after load the track

Call stack:

memcpy
draw_calls.cpp:DrawCalls::prepareDrawCalls:704
shader_based_renderer.cpp:ShaderBasedRenderer::renderScene:247
shader_based_renderer.cpp:ShaderBasedRenderer::render:822
irr_driver.cpp:IrrDriver::update:1796
main_loop.cpp:MainLoop::run:242
main.cpp:main:1807
exe_common.inl:__scrt_common_main_seh:283
BaseThreadInitThunk
RtlInitializeExceptionChain
RtlInitializeExceptionChain
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Re: Forest Track

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 07 Nov 2018, 22:14

Hi I‘m really sorry for my late answer.


samuncle {l Wrote}:Since we released STK with the new engine not many people took time to do this which saddened me a little bit, since I tried to make track creation as easy as possible.


Thank you for this. Since I've played SuperTuxKart I wanted to make an STK track on my own. In order to get there I've now learned so much about blender and other stuff, it's really cool for me. :)


samuncle {l Wrote}:* Use edge split to avoid weird shadowing especially for the lodges and wooden house. This will help to give a crispy look around the edges


Yes, very late I've realized that all edges are shaded smooth by STK if they aren't splitted. I'm going to change the important objects in my track. (maybe it would help other artists if this would be included in the track and kart tutorials (if not yet included)).

Thank you for your suggestions, they are very helpful for me. I've already done some work.



deve {l Wrote}:Regarding to the "assertion failed" when starting the track, it seems that you incorrectly marked models as LOD objects. Looking at your scene.xml, there is a lot of objects with the same lod distance in single group, for example:
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
   <group name="_single_lod_bench">
    <static-object lod_distance="120" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench.spm" xyz="209.57 44.45 439.37" hpr="0.0 17.5 0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
    <static-object lod_distance="120" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench.spm" xyz="59.69 -15.85 232.00" hpr="0.0 33.1 0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
    <static-object lod_distance="120" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench.spm" xyz="369.34 36.77 314.73" hpr="0.0 -73.5 0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
    <static-object lod_distance="120" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench.spm" xyz="441.35 55.59 384.43" hpr="-0.0 -160.5 -0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
   </group>


If you want to use lod, it should be something like this (with different lod distance and different spm model):
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
   <group name="_single_lod_bench">
    <static-object lod_distance="120" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench-hq.spm" xyz="209.57 44.45 439.37" hpr="0.0 17.5 0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
    <static-object lod_distance="240" lod_group="_single_lod_bench" model="bench-lq.spm" xyz="59.69 -15.85 232.00" hpr="0.0 33.1 0.0" scale="0.30 0.11 4.15" interaction="static" skeletal-animation="false"/>
   </group>


And for single lod probably each model needs its own group.

Actually maybe we could just ignore objects with the same lod distance rather than crash whole game...


In STK 0.9.3 the "LOD standalone" also works in just one group. And if it doesn't work on the current git version it should be fixed (because it would be unnecessary to export more 3D objects than needed).
At the moment I can't build the current git version to test it. The build itself seems to work but at the end when I double click the supertuxkart file in the bin folder nothing happens. If anyone knows what‘s the problem please tell me (Linux mint 19 Cinnamon). On Linux mint 18.3 it did work, maybe the new operating system is the reason?



QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}:Any updates on getting a source file published?


Without any textures I broke down the size (compressed as zip) to 10.7 MB, And with textures (again compressed as zip) the blend has 37 MB. It's a little bit of work left to do before I can upload it.



Alayan {l Wrote}:After some testing, I can say that the monastery path is faster than the normal path even if hitting one banana - it takes two bananas to make them about equal (it depends on what the banana yields). It is possible to not hit any banana while not slowing down, but it is highly unlikely even for a good player.

I expect that for most players who'd have trouble hitting only two bananas and skidding without accident, the hierarchy "harder but faster" roughly stands, though the bottom path itself isn't entirely trivial for them either.

Still, I'd recommend not requiring such a razor-thin margin with the bananas : when the technique required is too precise, executing it starts to become too luck-based.


Yes. I think I will delete some bananas and give the monastery path a slight slowdown (hopefully not to be felt) by an alpha texture.


Thanks again for your support :)
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Re: Forest Track

Postby deve » 07 Nov 2018, 23:02

For the LOD node it's because of
assert(m_detail.back()<level*level);
in https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-cod ... d_node.cpp and it was there in 0.9.3 too, it just doesn't crash in release build. I never really checked how it's done in Blender, but my understanding is that only one model from the LOD group should be displayed at the same time, so that there shouldn't be multiple models with equal distance in single group. On application side we could just ignore other models with equal distance, but it's not what you need. But maybe exporter could be more smart...
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Alayan » 08 Nov 2018, 12:21

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:Yes. I think I will delete some bananas and give the monastery path a slight slowdown (hopefully not to be felt) by an alpha texture.


Thanks again for your support :)

Be cautious with the texture slowdown idea. It seems easier to do than tweaking path, but it is easy to go wrong. An alpha texture will also reduce the effect of skidding/nitro, so even a 5% slowdown would be significant (expert with skidding : 28. ST with skidding : 30. ST with skidding -5% : 28.5). I am wary that a different speed on the same road texture visually, be it bridge or dirt road, could feel weird, too.

In the same sort of idea, maybe a zipper texture tuned to give only a small and short boost on the main path could achieve a similar effect ? If you want, I could run some tests to suggest a value.

We recently reduced the strength of the zipper texture in Gran Paradisio Island to improve the balance between paths, so having one with only a small bonus is ok.
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