Forest Track

Forest Track

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 23 Dec 2017, 22:20

Hi there, over the last few month I have put some effort into my new Supertuxkart track. It seems that now it’s ready to show it you and hope for some feedback.

A little a bit about what in mind. I started with this track, when I was quite new to Blender. I forgot it for a while and only rediscovered it by chance. The idea of the track is a sunny autumn in the mountainous terrain of the Black Forest (Germany), which is where I live.

I don’t think that the name “Black Forest” is such a great idea – any suggestions are welcome. I am also wondering, how this track performs on different systems – newer and older computers.

Finally, I am still working on the finishing touches. Here are some of my ideas and plans:

• replacing the low-poly farmhouse
Screenshot.jpg

• the canyon and creek will be improved or removed
• add details in many places
• improve the forest graphics
• the flow direction of the creek needs to be corrected
• improve the graphics at the start
• put in some of your suggestions

etc.

If you want to try it out, you can download “Black Forest” I have split the package into three parts. Just merge them upon reload.
forest_1.7z
(1.92 MiB) Downloaded 505 times
forest_2.7z
(1.65 MiB) Downloaded 490 times
forest_3.7z
(1.89 MiB) Downloaded 503 times
along with the library nodes
library.zip
(827.98 KiB) Downloaded 494 times
(this one goes into the library folder).
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Re: Forest Track

Postby QwertyChouskie » 24 Dec 2017, 01:44

Nice! A few things I noticed though:

- Some of the trees are ghost trees (can be driven through)
- The canyon seems like a shortcut, but using it makes the lap not count

I really appreciate the use of normal maps, that is a nice detail.

Performance seemed similar to Cocoa Temple on Intel HD 4000 + Linux + Mesa 17.2.2
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Re: Forest Track

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 24 Dec 2017, 09:31

Hi, Sven!
It's nice to see a new contribution. Even more, at this level.

I liked this track very much. The landscape is very beautiful with really good trees and not all are green; many have autumn leaves. I like this because all the previous tracks have green vegetation. Some parts of the stunning forest have a resemblance with my (still unveiled project) Viking Ring Fortress, because it's a track with a stretch passing through a forest in the first weeks of the autumn is the past (circa 980 AD, like I said two years ago).

IMHO, the only one aspect you should redo it's the placement of some trees, which have part of their roots outside the terrain. A bit inner or lower and it will be ok.
Black Forest - Montagem.jpg

The rest, is very well done.

This is my personal rating scale based on my evaluation after some laps:
Track Concept: 4.5
Ease of driving: 4
Level of Fun: 5
Graphics Quality: 4.8


Scores
0 - Humm...
1 - Very Bad
2 - Bad
3 - Acceptable/Nice
4 - Good
5 - Very good/excellent


There's a spoiler video for those who can't test the track now for some reason:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwj-Fcb79O8



Merry Christmas to you all!
Last edited by GeekPenguinBR on 02 Jan 2018, 23:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Ludsky » 24 Dec 2017, 19:14

the track is so beautiful, AMAZING !

"Black Forest" is a good name, but you can inspire by a name of german village for creating the name of track ^^

I have see a Shorcut ???

Image

Image

Merry Christmas :)
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Re: Forest Track

Postby MTres19 » 25 Dec 2017, 03:44

Wow! I couldn't test the track but by GeekPenguinBR's video I can say that the screenshots don't do the track justice. I can see that you also made the track fun to drive: there are obstacles, the width isn't constant, lots of scenery...

A few relatively minor suggestions:
* Maybe try to add a bit more variety to the vegetation. I think there is at least one other pine tree model in the library that you could link in.
* Definitely keep the canyon. It helps add variety.
* Realistic water is hard but with Benau's branch custom shaders are now possible so my advice is "stay tuned."
* A more fitting gate design would be nice.
* (Only a suggestion) a shortcut through a cave.

Possible names: Woodland Wanderings? Forest Footpath? No idea; though Arthur is rather good at coming up with names.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 26 Dec 2017, 21:09

Thanks for your feedback. Your comments are very useful.

GeekPenguinBR {l Wrote}:There's a spoiler video for those who can't test the track now for some reason:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwj-Fcb79O8


In your video I didn‘t see the library nodes - did you install them? The library folder contains three folders that need to be copied into the library folder (supertuxkart). Also, please, try the little sidetrack ;)
path.jpg
path.jpg (16.46 KiB) Viewed 17482 times



MTres19 {l Wrote}:Wow! I couldn't test the track but by GeekPenguinBR's video I can say that the screenshots don't do the track justice.

I included the screenshots just to show the 3-D models, which I plan to change. Here are few nicer ones. ;)
Bildschirmfoto vom 2017-12-18 18-06-14.jpg
Bildschirmfoto vom 2017-12-26 17-02-43.jpg
Bildschirmfoto vom 2017-12-26 17-04-08.jpg
Bildschirmfoto vom 2017-12-26 17-05-32.jpg


MTres19 {l Wrote}:* Maybe try to add a bit more variety to the vegetation. I think there is at least one other pine tree model in the library that you could link in.

I didn‘t use the pine tree model from the library on purpose, because of their very high polycounts … . Maybe I will make another model in the future.

MTres19 {l Wrote}:* Realistic water is hard but with Benau's branch custom shaders are now possible so my advice is "stay tuned."

I don‘t know the shader you mentioned - can you give me more information? For water I always use alpha blend shader and refraction/reflection on top.

MTres19 {l Wrote}:* (Only a suggestion) a shortcut through a cave.

I like the cave idea, but there is already a shortcut through the railway tunnel.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby QwertyChouskie » 26 Dec 2017, 23:51

One more thing, steam_engine.ogg needs to be downmixed to mono for positional audio to work right.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby GeekPenguinBR » 27 Dec 2017, 01:11

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:In your video I didn‘t see the library nodes - did you install them? The library folder contains three folders that need to be copied into the library folder (supertuxkart). Also, please, try the little sidetrack ;)


Yes, for sure. But, since the video itself is a spoiler, I decided to avoid that stretch on purpose. Then, the players will have the opportunity to "discover" for themselves the entrance for it and how the stretch looks good. By my side, all I can say is that the alternative way is very beautiful and pleasant to drive too. I liked very much the way you put the powerups on there.

PS.Beautiful screenshots, BTW.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby MTres19 » 27 Dec 2017, 01:37

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:
MTres19 {l Wrote}:* Maybe try to add a bit more variety to the vegetation. I think there is at least one other pine tree model in the library that you could link in.

I didn‘t use the pine tree model from the library on purpose, because of their very high polycounts … . Maybe I will make another model in the future.


Actually since STK computes lighting in the fragment shader (per-pixel) rather than per vertex, polycount doesn't influence FPS as much. Also there is the capability to disable certain objects below a certain GFX level; if that's not enabled for this library node I can add it to my TODO list.

SvenAndreasBelting {l Wrote}:
MTres19 {l Wrote}:* Realistic water is hard but with Benau's branch custom shaders are now possible so my advice is "stay tuned."

I don‘t know the shader you mentioned - can you give me more information? For water I always use alpha blend shader and refraction/reflection on top.


The shader doesn't exist—yet. If/when Benau's code is merged into the main branch it will be easier to write custom GLSL shaders. I was thinking of something that would be both reflective and transparent, like water.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Mr.XX99 » 03 Feb 2018, 14:07

Hi, I really like this track :)
It looks pretty good.

But I had an issue with it:
When I drove hidden paths, the lap did not count, see this video:
Spoiler-Warning: this video shows hidden paths:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUS5JQ0oJyU

And some other opinions from me:

-
addon_black forest-2018.02.03_13.37.24.png

I think this sign looks really great and cool, but I don't think it fits in this landscape at all. Maybe you could try making one with wood.
But maybe this sign could be added to the STK library because this could fit well on other tracks.


- You should try to get some higher resolution of the sky, because it looks very pixeled (or are this just my settings?)

- Some trees (I think mostly those with orange leafs) suddenly popped out of nowhere during driving. Can be seen in my video, right after the start (Or again only my settings?)


I would love to see this track officially released when these points are fixed.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby GN10Gaming » 06 Feb 2018, 15:28

Awesome track, and my computer is 1.5 years old and the track is smooth and great for me, enjoyed it
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Re: Forest Track

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 09 Feb 2018, 16:57

Thanks again to all of you for your feedback. I‘m glad you like the track.


Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:I think this sign looks really great and cool, but I don't think it fits in this landscape at all. Maybe you could try making one with wood.


Yes, you‘re right. I did‘nt like the sign too much either. I‘ve already exchanged it. Now it is looking like this:
sshot_2.jpg


Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:- You should try to get some higher resolution of the sky, because it looks very pixeled (or are this just my settings?)

The sky is so pixelated because I have compressed the textures for the Forum very much.

Mr.XX99 {l Wrote}:- Some trees (I think mostly those with orange leafs) suddenly popped out of nowhere during driving. Can be seen in my video, right after the start (Or again only my settings?)

The trees right after the start are LOD-models (level of detail) which means that I have made two different models for these trees, which are displayed depending on the distance (low quality when far distant, high quality when close). When changing the models, sometimes it looks as if they would suddenly pop out of nowhere.
Shortly after the second bridge one orange tree actually popped out of nowhere. I have already fixed that.

So, now a few things I would like to ask:

I want to have some objects only to be visible while driving in reverse. I have tried in the panel „SuperTuxKart Object Properties“ in „visible if“ with the text „isTrackReverse“ which didn‘t work. What is your tip?

I have changed the gloss map for the water. Now it reflects more. I like it very much from far away, but from close it looks a bit strange. (see the pictures) Would you decide to leave it as it is, so it looks better from far away, or would you decide to change it, so it doesn‘t look so ugly from close.
sshot.jpg


Last question: I have marked one driveline as „invisible“ and „ignore by AIs“. Driving forward it works, driving reverse it doesn‘t work: the AI karts use the driveline nevertheless. Is this a bug?
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Auria » 10 Feb 2018, 00:40

Hi,

for reverse-only objects, here is a working example :

Reverse.jpg


For driveline flags being ignored in reverse, this does sound like a bug! You could file one on github if you wish, otherwise I could
Image
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Re: Forest Track

Postby QwertyChouskie » 10 Feb 2018, 00:46

One other thing: The scaling of the grass texture on the landscape should be changed so that it looks less pixelated (the texture itself is fine, it is just stretched too big.)
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Re: Forest Track

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 11 Feb 2018, 20:06

For reverse-only objects, I tried it again and exactly with the words from your example, but it still doesn‘t work. Shall I upload the blend file? - but I need to know where and how… because the file is too big for the Forum.

Auria {l Wrote}:For driveline flags being ignored in reverse, this does sound like a bug! You could file one on github if you wish, otherwise I could

I would like to try. Where exactly do I have to file the bug?
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Re: Forest Track

Postby QwertyChouskie » 12 Feb 2018, 02:54

https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-code/issues/new

You can also upload the blend+textures in a zip on the issue.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Auria » 13 Feb 2018, 00:43

Oops, for the reverse part I forgot an important part. You need to add a "scripting.as" file in your track data files, containing

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
bool isTrackReverse(Track::TrackObject@ obj)
{
    return Track::isReverse();
}


(you can take a look at the volcano track for an example)
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Re: Forest Track

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 13 Feb 2018, 20:32

Great! Now it's working. :) Thanks
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Alayan » 20 Mar 2018, 18:26

I don't remember the last time I saw an add-on track of that quality ! Great job.

Maybe not as graphically advanced as recent samuncle's creations, but certainly on-par with several tracks currently included in base STK.

It's longer than usual STK tracks, but without being boring.

Have you other improvements in mind for it ?
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Auria » 21 Mar 2018, 00:31

I would also strongly suggest that you submit this addon to the addons website :)
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Re: Forest Track

Postby SvenAndreasBelting » 21 Mar 2018, 14:50

Alayan {l Wrote}:I don't remember the last time I saw an add-on track of that quality ! Great job.


Thanks :)

Alayan {l Wrote}:Have you other improvements in mind for it ?


Yes some more. Among other things I‘m currently working on an alternative route over the hill (close to the monastery).
And many things have been changed in the meantime. For example I have put flower meadows on some places, I have begun a new farmhouse (where the karts will drive through), and I have changed a lot of details.



Auria {l Wrote}:I would also strongly suggest that you submit this addon to the addons website :)


Yes of course I want to do that. But I want to finish some improvements before I submit the track.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Alayan » 21 Mar 2018, 18:16

I playtested a bit more today.

Here are a few thoughts :
1)The balance between the two paths is very good. I played in time-trial mode to test it, doing two-laps race were I used twice the same path to compare the results. I'd say that the path by the village is marginally better in time-trial mode if you get the two big nitro, but we're speaking of a very small difference. If you do another path, be mindful of balancing.
2)In the non-village path in S, it's possible to go under the barrier in the second curve. That's very annoying, as you need to rescue the kart. I'd suggest to change the barriers to make sure you can't go under them. Also in that same curve, maybe smooth a bit the road, because once I tried to skid and my kart literally flew over the barrier.
3)I suggest changing the big nitro at the end of the big straight line next to the railtrack. Maybe replace it by three small nitros a bit further. The issue with big nitro cans easy to get is that it tends to create a too big difference between a kart and the one just behind.
4)Graphical remarks. I like a lot the trees moving with the wind. It makes things lively. However, I noticed a number of trees which are not in full 3D but are made of two planes in X. From far and from certain angle, it may look ok, but from closer approach, the difference is very clear. 3D tree are much betters. I drove to the monastery on the hill. It's nice, but we can see the walls behind the windows. A small issue with the water : it doesn't splash, and you can literally drive in the bed of the river (it should auto-rescue). It's also unsettling that one can drive through house walls. I suggest improving a bit the look of the cows and animating them a bit (maybe the head going down as if to eat and back up ?), it will make things more lively. The train doesn't stay properly on railroad at the start. I suggest putting a river under the big bridge. Finally there is one thing which is ugly as hell : the grass. It's in 2D, the texture itself is low-res ; and it really doesn't look good. I strongly suggest to replace it. Maybe something other than grass in places where there are a lot of tree ; and better-looking grass (with some 3D models) in other places. I see you've put a bit of better grass in some places, I really wish you can change it in more.

I tested some other recent addons tracks, and after doing them once, I had no interest in replaying them. Here however, I'd really like it to be improved enough to be included in the base game.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Mr.XX99 » 21 Mar 2018, 22:11

@SvenAndreasBelting: For water I would suggest you watch this tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CR_M_oyNPk&index=11&list=PLhvaM7uJr1PADEdcS3MGl7YZFFkWMJnKe (it's in German)


And I found a bug with a waterfall that is only visible when driving in reverse:
Image
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Mr.XX99 » 23 Mar 2018, 12:59

I agree with Alayan that the forest ground could be a bit better, I found a cc0 - licensed forest floor for blender, maybe you can include some objects from it if you want. It would improve the forest a lot: https://www.blendswap.com/blends/view/50796 (note the picture on that page is rendered in Blender, so it wouldn't look as good, but it looks pretty good with only textures too and that density is not practicable in STK, but you could take some objects of it)

And I agree with animations of the animals, as it makes the track more lively, you could also include some birds flying around. I think there are already some in official tracks, but can't tell which.
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Re: Forest Track

Postby Alayan » 24 Mar 2018, 16:03

When driving in reverse, I have not seen the waterfall issue, but there is a bigger problem.

First, the jump over the railtrack is done without any kind of visible ramp to indicate that there is a jump there.

Second, it sends the AI in a bad spot, against trees, triggering an endless cycle of rescues.

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