SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby Auria » 07 Dec 2010, 17:35

Hi,

I'm not sure about hard edges, sorry, can't tell when they got lost

Race Track could be included, but we would need to find a way to prevent shortcuts, there were LOTS of possible shortcuts
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby horace » 07 Dec 2010, 17:52

canyon.jpg

here is a screenshot.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby Auria » 07 Dec 2010, 19:13

Ok, I'm not sure if it looks bad though? If you wish to alter the blend file (or just check it) go ahead, but I don't think the current state looks bad?
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby horace » 07 Dec 2010, 19:27

it's not intended to look this way. flat faces are supposed to look flat. the brightness shouldn't diagonally interpolate across the faces like that (or around corners). i would have to install the old version again, to make a screenshot how it looked before. :) then you would see that it doesn't look right.

who did the export? where can i find the current .blend file? is it in svn? i will have a look... i guess the reason is that the edge-split modifier got disabled before export.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby hiker » 07 Dec 2010, 23:32

horace {l Wrote}:it's not intended to look this way. flat faces are supposed to look flat. the brightness shouldn't diagonally interpolate across the faces like that (or around corners). i would have to install the old version again, to make a screenshot how it looked before. :) then you would see that it doesn't look right.

Old version as in 0.6* ? I don't really know how the edge-split mode works, but it might be that it is not supported in the b3d exporter??

who did the export? where can i find the current .blend file? is it in svn? i will have a look... i guess the reason is that the edge-split modifier got disabled before export.

The current .blend (and the history) is in our svn media repository: http://supertuxkart.svn.sourceforge.net ... cks/canyon.

Cheers,
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby asciimonster » 08 Dec 2010, 00:42

hiker {l Wrote}:I don't really know how the edge-split mode works, but it might be that it is not supported in the b3d exporter??

If I'm not mistaken the edge split is a constraint (like array or curve, as used here ), and therefore only present in Blender design time. Only after the constraint is applied (read: converted to mesh) can it be exported.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby horace » 08 Dec 2010, 07:34

asciimonster {l Wrote}:
hiker {l Wrote}:I don't really know how the edge-split mode works, but it might be that it is not supported in the b3d exporter??

If I'm not mistaken the edge split is a constraint (like array or curve, as used here ), and therefore only present in Blender design time. Only after the constraint is applied (read: converted to mesh) can it be exported.


it depends on the exporter. some exporters take modifiers into account without applying them, some don't. it would be more convenient of course, if the exporter didn't require applying the modifiers. also because of the often used curve and array modifiers. i will check the file today and experiment with exporting a bit...

i noticed such shading problems also on many other tracks. but it is especially noticable on the huge rock faces in the canyon track.

edit:
i have checked it now. the b3d exporter doesn't take modifiers into account (if i remember correctly the ac3 exporter did take them into account). so you have to apply all of them before export. in the canyon blend file the edge split modifiers weren't applied and on some objects it was completely missing. i will try to clean up the blend file and export it again.

shouldn't trees and cactuses and so on be track objects? most tracks seem to still include them in the main b3d file.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby Auria » 08 Dec 2010, 18:59

Thanks for your intent to work on the blend :)

At this point, marking objects like trees or cacti as separate objects has no clear advantage (except perhaps saving a little disk space). If we eventually come to implement octree scenes and/or instancing, then it would become much more interesting to do so
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby Quintus » 08 Dec 2010, 22:30

Hi there, just wanted to say the new rc is awesome. I really enjoy playing it! :)

However, I noticed two things:
  • If you set screen resolution and afterwards try to use a gamepad, no button presses are realized, although the gamepad shows up in the device configuration. After restarting Supertuxkart everything works as expected.
  • I used to assign acceleration to another button than the steering (old habit from some console games I previously played...), i.e. while I of course use one of my gamepad's joysticks (is this the correct word? I'm not a native speaker) for steering, I have acceleration assigned to button 3. Now, if I try to drive a kart with this configuration, it first works, but after a little time the acceleration stops as if I had released the button. In order to continue driving (my cart stops if I do nothing) I have to release the acceleration button and then press it again which is quite annoying because one cannot concentrate on the driving itself but on the question "When do I have to release and press the acceleration button?". I remember this was working fine with the previous version of Supertuxkart.

I'm running Arch Linux with
  • {l Code}: {l Select All Code}
    $ uname -a
    Linux hades 2.6.36-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Nov 24 00:39:57 CET 2010 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 640 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
  • {l Code}: {l Select All Code}
    $ supertuxkart --version
    Irrlicht Engine version 1.7.2
    Linux 2.6.36-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Nov 24 00:39:57 CET 2010 x86_64
    [FileManager] Data files will be fetched from: '/usr/share/supertuxkart/'
    ==============================
    SuperTuxKart, 0.7rc1.
    ==============================
  • I installed Supertuxkart via pacman, here's the package information:
    {l Code}: {l Select All Code}
    $ LANG=en_US.utf8 pacman -Qi supertuxkart
    Name           : supertuxkart
    Version        : 0.7rc1-1
    URL            : http://supertuxkart.sourceforge.net/
    Licenses       : GPL2
    Groups         : None
    Provides       : None
    Depends On     : irrlicht  openal  libvorbis
    Optional Deps  : None
    Required By    : None
    Conflicts With : None
    Replaces       : None
    Installed Size : 149348.00 K
    Packager       : Sven-Hendrik Haase <sh@lutzhaase.com>
    Architecture   : x86_64
    Build Date     : Fri 03 Dec 2010 05:02:17 PM CET
    Install Date   : Sun 05 Dec 2010 08:48:22 PM CET
    Install Reason : Explicitly installed
    Install Script : No
    Description    : A kart racing game featuring Tux and his friends

This is my gamepad:
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
$ lsusb | grep Joy
Bus 002 Device 004: ID 0079:0006 DragonRise Inc. Generic USB Joystick


Any hints on any of the points?

Valete,
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby Auria » 09 Dec 2010, 00:46

Hi,

thanks for the report :) I corrected the gamepad problem with resolution changes. However I must admin I have no idea about the acceleration button issue :( I'll see if I can reproduce
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby hiker » 09 Dec 2010, 03:37

acme_pjz {l Wrote}:I have finished the modified Irrlicht font tool (more or less) ;) Currently it only works under Windows; I haven't modified the Linux implementation code. This tool can save a LOT of space ... originally we need 156 pictures, 10MB total, but now we only need 6 pictures, less than 400KB :) . Loading speed of STK also increased dramatically ...

Great! I've just got it to compile (after struggling for a while with VS), and added it to our source files. I've added 'acme_pjz' in main.cpp, so that it's clear that you did the work.
...
I'm afraid that you can't recognize Wqy-MicroHei font, because FontTool's GUI doesn't display Chinese characters at all ... so I modified the default font to "Wqy-MicroHei" (if you have already installed this font in your computer) (BTW: What does Wqy-MicroHei displays on your computer, its English name or some Chinese characters?)

I see the English name, and so had no problems with the display (except that the font size of the font tool is just too small, the gui not wide enough, making it difficult to use :) ).

I am adding a first version of the 'compressed' textures to SVN now.

Cheers,
Joerg
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby hiker » 09 Dec 2010, 04:34

oldherl {l Wrote}:I have just used that tool (though wine :( ) to convert the so-called "Wqy-MicroHei" font. That font's real name is "WenQuanYi Micro Hei" or "文泉驿微米黑", depends on your locale.
It has all the characters in zh_CN.po, zh_TW.po and ko.po of 0.7rc1.
It's very small. (<600KiB)
It's no sense to have two files "StkChineseFont.xml" and "StkChineseFontHeader.xml". Here I'm just using one.

Auria - do we need both files?

I just committed my own converted fonts. I used the list of all translations (as did acme_pjz), and I am getting more files (probably because of the additional characters?), but they are smaller. I used 24 points, alpha, 512x512 png. Your files are around 110KB, mine are less than 80. Am I doing anything wrong? Could you perhaps have a look at what I just committed?

Thanks a lot for your help!
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby horace » 09 Dec 2010, 07:51

Image
canyon2.jpg


i have cleaned up the canyon blend file. shading is correct now and i made the cactuses, stones and so on separate b3d objects. i have also used the bigger versions of the asphalt textures. there also were some other small problems. for example the connection pieces between the various track segments somehow were shifted slightly (the vertices weren't snapped correctly anymore) and the skycube textures weren't at the right places (the river didn't flow into the river on the skycube. :)).

i still have some problems:
  • i would like to add some slight fog. but why do the sky textures get affected by fog? how can i disable this?
  • what is fog-density? in other engines i have worked with the fog density got specified by fog-start and fog-end only.
  • why do you use a sun position and not a sun direction? isn't the sun more a directional light?
  • how can i get zippers working? they seem to get exported but not loaded anymore by the engine. my tracks are designed for zippers. :)



edit:
i think it would be nice if a simple track template blend got provided. :) with a very simple track loop (with curve and array modifier), all scene settings and one of each item. it also would be easier to work with if in blender the items weren't empties but the actual models (or use the different empty draw types: box -> items, cone -> zippers,...).

edit2:
i experimented with the city track a bit. i think fixing it (wider track, less steep, new buildings, some trees,...) wouldn't be as much work as i thought. probably i will work on it next.
Last edited by horace on 09 Dec 2010, 14:29, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby horace » 09 Dec 2010, 14:17

i think for shadows it could be nice to use realtime pssm in the future. they are quite easy to do. is there an pssm example for irrlicht? on slow computers they simply could be disabled and everthing looks like now and on fast computers they could be enabled.

static light mapping is hard to do in blender and a lot of work. it also would be very hard to achieve a somewhat consistent look across all the tracks. are there still people who experiment with static light mapping?
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby Auria » 09 Dec 2010, 15:04

Joerg: I'm not 100% sure it's absolutely needed to have the header and body XML files, but having the two identical as of now is definitely wrong
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby Auria » 09 Dec 2010, 15:11

Joerg: oh, and also we have conflicts :

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
   <Texture index="0" filename="LayneHansom0.png" hasAlpha="true"/>
   <Texture index="1" filename="AR_PL_SungtiL_GB0.png"  hasAlpha="true" scale="0.85" />
   <Texture index="2" filename="Rahel.png" hasAlpha="true" scale="0.75" />

    <include file="StkChineseFontHeader.xml"/>


{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
   <Texture index="0" filename="wqyMicroHei0.png" hasAlpha="true" />
   <Texture index="1" filename="wqyMicroHei1.png" hasAlpha="true" />
   <Texture index="2" filename="wqyMicroHei2.png" hasAlpha="true" />
   <Texture index="3" filename="wqyMicroHei3.png" hasAlpha="true" />
   <Texture index="4" filename="wqyMicroHei4.png" hasAlpha="true" />
   <Texture index="5" filename="wqyMicroHei5.png" hasAlpha="true" />


We have two textures defined with ID 0. The font generator should be able to receive a "start ID" parameter so we avoid conflicts
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby Auria » 09 Dec 2010, 15:21

horace {l Wrote}:i have cleaned up the canyon blend file. shading is correct now and i made the cactuses, stones and so on separate b3d objects. i have also used the bigger versions of the asphalt textures. there also were some other small problems. for example the connection pieces between the various track segments somehow were shifted slightly (the vertices weren't snapped correctly anymore) and the skycube textures weren't at the right places (the river didn't flow into the river on the skycube. :)).



Nice :)

horace {l Wrote}:i still have some problems:
i would like to add some slight fog. but why do the sky textures get affected by fog? how can i disable this?


Good question, I don't know, we would need to check with irrlicht :( I will create a ticket for this

horace {l Wrote}:what is fog-density? in other engines i have worked with the fog density got specified by fog-start and fog-end only.


Density only matters for exponential type fog, for linear fog this is unused... and we don't support exponential fog xD So I think the fog density parameter needs to be removed from the property browser (asciimonster, Joerg?). For now I updated the wiki to mention this property is unused...

horace {l Wrote}:why do you use a sun position and not a sun direction? isn't the sun more a directional light?


The position is just a nice way to specify in blender from which direction the sun comes from :) In STK the sun position is converted into a light angle

horace {l Wrote}:how can i get zippers working? they seem to get exported but not loaded anymore by the engine. my tracks are designed for zippers. :)


Simply give the "zipper" property to some material. Note that we now prefer having animated ramps over the rather ugly orange arrows that used to be found in STK 0.6

horace {l Wrote}:i think it would be nice if a simple track template blend got provided. :) with a very simple track loop (with curve and array modifier), all scene settings and one of each item. it also would be easier to work with if in blender the items weren't empties but the actual models (or use the different empty draw types: box -> items, cone -> zippers,...).


Maybe, not sure a sample track is that useful because everyone will model their track differenty. With regard to different empty draw types, it is absolutely possible to use different draw types for different collectible types, actually I do this in my own tracks :)
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby horace » 09 Dec 2010, 15:49

i don't really like to model my zippers into the road mesh though. that's a lot of work. :p

is it possible to let the zipper polygon hover slightly over the road? like 1 cm? can i use "ignore" (so that there is no bump for the karts) and "zipper" at the same time in the material?

how are the ramps supposed to look like? like a conveyor belt? hm... the old zipper was an easily recognizeable feature in all tracks. i will kind of miss that. and it was really easy to place. :)
Last edited by horace on 09 Dec 2010, 16:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby Auria » 09 Dec 2010, 15:52

Yes, the conveyor belt look is one that would be good; it can be other things too.

You can put a plane slightly above the ground (but don't use ignore, an ignored material can't be a zipper) - but I sort of don't recommend it, because when viewed from a distance there will almost certainly be some Z fighting if done this way (if you cannot view them from a distance then it doesn't matter)
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby asciimonster » 09 Dec 2010, 15:56

Auria {l Wrote}: So I think the fog density parameter needs to be removed from the property browser (asciimonster, Joerg?).

That's easy, just remove the line defining the fog-density parameter, (line 101 in stk_browser):
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
#                ["fog-density","Track",type_FLOAT,16],\

Then delete the property itself from your file.

Auria {l Wrote}:The position is just a nice way to specify in blender from which direction the sun comes from :) In STK the sun position is converted into a light angle

From my math class I remember that you need at least 3 points to define an angle... The sun is 1, what are the other 2.

Or do you mean light direction, i.e. the light parallel to the imaginary line Sun->(0,0,0)?
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby horace » 09 Dec 2010, 16:07

Auria {l Wrote}:Yes, the conveyor belt look is one that would be good; it can be other things too.

You can put a plane slightly above the ground (but don't use ignore, an ignored material can't be a zipper) - but I sort of don't recommend it, because when viewed from a distance there will almost certainly be some Z fighting if done this way (if you cannot view them from a distance then it doesn't matter)


z-fighting maybe could be avoided by using "alpha" (but without any real transparency in the alpha channel)? i guess i will have to experiment a little...

...
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
ambient    A "r g b" or "r g b a" color for the ambient light of the sun.
diffuse    The diffuse color for the sun.
specular   The specular color of the sun.

those should be properties of the light, not the scene, right? what are the default values of those? the track got a bit dark after i added a sun.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby horace » 09 Dec 2010, 19:59

{attachment removed}
here is the new version... i have added conveyor belts instead of zippers.
(you also should update the textures in the global texture directory, since i have included the bigger versions.)

the only things still missing are:
  • i would disable fog on the skycube if this is possible somehow.
  • maybe the sun should be made slightly brighter? it seems to be a bit darker than before but i am not sure.

edit:
{l Code}: {l Select All Code}
<material name="canyon_conveyor_belt.png" zipper="Y" zipper-duration="2.0" zipper-max-speed-increase="8.0" zipper-fade-out-time="2.0" zipper-speed-gain="4.0"/>

maybe the conveyor belts should be made stronger like that? what is zipper-speed-gain?

edit2: no, that seems to be way too strong. but somehow i can't quite get the right settings... are those speed values multipliers or actual speeds? what are the values to achieve the old zipper behaviour?
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby xeno74 » 12 Dec 2010, 00:23

The rc1 for FreeBSD is online:

Link to SourceForge

It's a binary with librarys. With ./run_game.sh you can start STK.

Screenshot STK 0.7 rc1 on FreeBSD (Click to enlarge):

Image

Could someone build a static package for Linux? :)


--Xeno
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby xeno74 » 12 Dec 2010, 19:56

@rudy85

Thank you very much for the Chuck kart :)

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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.7 rc1

Postby xeno74 » 12 Dec 2010, 20:28

If I select nineteen karts, then some karts double. Could Beastie (Chuck) add to STK 0.7?

@rudi85
The daemon's name is not Chuck, but his name is Beastie. Link: http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/index.html
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