Graphics card upgrade

Graphics card upgrade

Postby AlwaysLast » 19 Feb 2017, 01:16

Generally I don't play games. I didn't build my computer with games in mind, but STK is absolutely fantastic, and my children are addicts. Some tracks are a bit of a stretch for my computer and frames-per-second drops and responsiveness is "laggy" (as the kids put it), especially when they are playing a four-way game.

So I'm after suggestions for an upgrade. I'm guessing a graphics card would be a good starting point. I don't have pots of cash to spend, and if said card would also (say) aid video rendering (though I use Kdenlive which doesn't yet (AFAIAA) use GPU rendering) that would be a bonus.

Here's the current spec:
    AMD A10 5800K (not overclocked)
    Inbuilt graphics: Radeon HD7660, 1GB memory allocated
    8GB (less graphics) RAM
    System drive: Sandisk 120GB SSD. Model (SMART reported - I can't remember the branding) SDSSDH2128G
    Monitors: 2x 1920x1080, one by VGA (KVM switch), one by HDMI (secondary, but usually used for STK as it's larger)
    OS: OpenSuse 42.2

I had a look around the forum before posting and couldn't see a Hardware thread that covered this topic recently. Sorry if I missed it on my first post!

AB.
AlwaysLast
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 19 Feb 2017, 00:54

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby QwertyChouskie » 19 Feb 2017, 03:47

I would recommend looking at local Craigslist listings, then using this site to compare the cards to what you have and what the recommended card is (GTX 660, see https://supertuxkart.net/FAQ). In my area capable cards can be had for as little as $40-50.
Contributor to/fan of STK (Upstreamed Cartoon theme, numerous random big fixes/tweaks)
User avatar
QwertyChouskie
 
Posts: 559
Joined: 29 Jun 2016, 14:57

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby brmbrmcar » 19 Feb 2017, 11:37

You'd probably want to go for Nvidia before the Linux drivers for AMD are good enough. My computer meets all the recommended hardware requirements on Linux but FPS is still poor (only around 30% better than before I installed the card).

Also I found Kdenlive GPU rendering just crashes on my AMD card. You can enable it through Settings -> Configure Kdenlive -> Playback -> Use GPU processing. I believe it should help rendering speeds too.
brmbrmbrmbrmbrmbrmcar
User avatar
brmbrmcar
 
Posts: 357
Joined: 24 Oct 2015, 14:46

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby QwertyChouskie » 19 Feb 2017, 19:43

@brmbrmcar What mesa version are you using? Mesa 17 was just released, and there have been a lot of improvements regarding AMD cards lately.
Contributor to/fan of STK (Upstreamed Cartoon theme, numerous random big fixes/tweaks)
User avatar
QwertyChouskie
 
Posts: 559
Joined: 29 Jun 2016, 14:57

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby QwertyChouskie » 19 Feb 2017, 20:00

Contributor to/fan of STK (Upstreamed Cartoon theme, numerous random big fixes/tweaks)
User avatar
QwertyChouskie
 
Posts: 559
Joined: 29 Jun 2016, 14:57

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby Arthur » 19 Feb 2017, 20:58

Just want to note that driving several displays and also playing four-way multiplayer is rather demanding because the card has to push lots more pixels with two displays, and when playing split-screen it has to render for each viewport. With the upcoming version a couple performance optimizations have been done and lowering texture size can be enabled in the options, but admittedly STK is not the most efficient yet in any case. But it should not be too expensive to find something a little better than your current card.
Hey pal, I took an oath for justice! "In happy days or tightest tights..." or something like that.
User avatar
Arthur
 
Posts: 1073
Joined: 06 Dec 2009, 00:49

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby brmbrmcar » 19 Feb 2017, 22:46

I'm compiling the new Mesa now. (I want the R9 Fury :cry:)
brmbrmbrmbrmbrmbrmcar
User avatar
brmbrmcar
 
Posts: 357
Joined: 24 Oct 2015, 14:46

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby tux_peng » 19 Feb 2017, 22:55

brmbrmcar {l Wrote}:I'm compiling the new Mesa now. (I want the R9 Fury :cry:)


This summer, the RX series will probably see an upgrade too
If you would like info about my STK servers, http://playstk.net
Superposition 720p Low Desktop 15031 | Laptop 7484
glmark2 Score: 9272
User avatar
tux_peng
 
Posts: 107
Joined: 13 Jun 2014, 19:59

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby brmbrmcar » 19 Feb 2017, 23:15

Performance boosted by about 5%.
brmbrmbrmbrmbrmbrmcar
User avatar
brmbrmcar
 
Posts: 357
Joined: 24 Oct 2015, 14:46

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby Lyberta » 20 Feb 2017, 04:58

I dunno why ppl recommend Nvidia because I've heard that it needs signed firmware and doesn't release it. I use AMD Radeon R9 380X with free driver and get good FPS in most games.
Lyberta
 
Posts: 765
Joined: 19 Jun 2013, 10:45

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby QwertyChouskie » 20 Feb 2017, 05:07

The open driver for AMD cards do not get the full performance the card can give. If you really want graphics that have Free, full performance Linux drivers, you should go with Intel Iris Pro graphics. With Nvidia, you can use fully free drivers (Nouveau), but you will not get the full performance the card can give.
Contributor to/fan of STK (Upstreamed Cartoon theme, numerous random big fixes/tweaks)
User avatar
QwertyChouskie
 
Posts: 559
Joined: 29 Jun 2016, 14:57

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby MTres19 » 20 Feb 2017, 13:20

There's no OpenCL 2.x on nVidia drivers yet.
User avatar
MTres19
 
Posts: 191
Joined: 17 Aug 2015, 20:15

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby brmbrmcar » 21 Feb 2017, 18:36

I get pretty good FPS in most proprietary games. However, some are even worse than SuperTuxKart. I've known Terraria to get less than 30fps and still use all the GPU.

I HATE Nvidia and Intel. And they have dirty tricks for better performance. But, AMD graphics just slow behind, and unless you are hard-core open-source you might have to just give in.
brmbrmbrmbrmbrmbrmcar
User avatar
brmbrmcar
 
Posts: 357
Joined: 24 Oct 2015, 14:46

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby brmbrmcar » 21 Feb 2017, 19:04

Oh, and I started SuperTux only to find extremely decreased performance thanks to new mesa.
brmbrmbrmbrmbrmbrmcar
User avatar
brmbrmcar
 
Posts: 357
Joined: 24 Oct 2015, 14:46

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby QwertyChouskie » 21 Feb 2017, 22:33

Weird... Maybe try with --renderer=sdl or --renderer=opengl
This sounds like a bug and should be reported.
Contributor to/fan of STK (Upstreamed Cartoon theme, numerous random big fixes/tweaks)
User avatar
QwertyChouskie
 
Posts: 559
Joined: 29 Jun 2016, 14:57

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby brmbrmcar » 22 Feb 2017, 20:59

I had to do a complete reinstall because of that mesa.
brmbrmbrmbrmbrmbrmcar
User avatar
brmbrmcar
 
Posts: 357
Joined: 24 Oct 2015, 14:46

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby QwertyChouskie » 22 Feb 2017, 21:12

I'm compiling the new Mesa now. (I want the R9 Fury :cry:)

I had to do a complete reinstall because of that mesa.

In general, when upgrading a package to a new major version, it is generally best to install the new version from a PPA similar, so it can easily be reverted to the old version if it causes issues.
Contributor to/fan of STK (Upstreamed Cartoon theme, numerous random big fixes/tweaks)
User avatar
QwertyChouskie
 
Posts: 559
Joined: 29 Jun 2016, 14:57

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby AlwaysLast » 22 Feb 2017, 23:45

Thanks for all the suggestions. I guess I'm looking for something that'll give a noticeable improvement over my inbuilt graphics, but without spending a vast amount of money. The GTX 660 recommended in the FAQ isn't, I think, a current card? I'm a bit cautious about installing an Nvidia card when the onboard graphics are AMD. I'd like to retain the option to use the inbuilt graphics alongside the new card, certainly in the short term, as I need a VGA output, so I'm looking at something mid-ish range from AMD.
Comparison sites suggest I'm not going to get much of an improvement from (say) an R7 240 or 250, but that an R7 260 or 360 or 370 should be worthwhile (R9 being out of my league, price-wise). Have I understood that correctly do you think?
AB
AlwaysLast
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 19 Feb 2017, 00:54

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby QwertyChouskie » 23 Feb 2017, 00:19

From my experience, you cannot use integrated and discrete graphics at the same time, as they share the same PCIe x16 channel. Any card that has DVI-I outputs can use an inexpensive DVI-to-VGA adapter though (https://www.amazon.com/Generic-DVI-I-Dual-Link-15-Pin-Adapter/dp/B0037UCTXG/). Unless for some reason you really need a brand-new card, Craigslist is your friend here, e.g. in my area there is a GTX 770 2GB (with DVI-I and HDMI outputs) for only $50 (https://ventura.craigslist.org/sop/6005633210.html).
Contributor to/fan of STK (Upstreamed Cartoon theme, numerous random big fixes/tweaks)
User avatar
QwertyChouskie
 
Posts: 559
Joined: 29 Jun 2016, 14:57

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby QwertyChouskie » 23 Feb 2017, 00:30

The comp between that and your current card is mind-boggling: http://www.game-debate.com/gpu/index.ph ... HD%207660D
Contributor to/fan of STK (Upstreamed Cartoon theme, numerous random big fixes/tweaks)
User avatar
QwertyChouskie
 
Posts: 559
Joined: 29 Jun 2016, 14:57

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby leilei » 23 Feb 2017, 01:25

IMO upgrading to the bleeding edge for a hobbyist open source game isn't necessary. What would be more beneficial for all is optimization work, like LODs, optimal model formats, and more vertex buffering etc

When I made a sorceress kart I hated how the mesh was 15mb+. it made absolutely no sense and it showed there's issues with the pipeline having bloated stuff with no respect for memory usage and cache. A skeletal model of that kind would be more like 570kb w/ animations
User avatar
leilei
 
Posts: 154
Joined: 03 Apr 2012, 02:53

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby MTres19 » 23 Feb 2017, 01:46

leilei {l Wrote}:IMO upgrading to the bleeding edge for a hobbyist open source game isn't necessary. What would be more beneficial for all is optimization work, like LODs, optimal model formats, and more vertex buffering etc

When I made a sorceress kart I hated how the mesh was 15mb+. it made absolutely no sense and it showed there's issues with the pipeline having bloated stuff with no respect for memory usage and cache. A skeletal model of that kind would be more like 570kb w/ animations


leilei, the latest git code has lots of performance improvements, and while it's not documented you can put the B3D files in a zip archive, name them with .b3dz (just to show they're compressed) and modify the XML to use the right files. I know that's not optimal but it's an option. Yes, the engine does need optimization, but Eldermé and Benau are the only ones working on the engine and Eldermé doesn't have much free time it seems.

In other news, you can now colorize things like your wanted. I'm not sure if you posted on the GitHub ticket so that you'd get notifications, but... https://supertuxkart.net/Materials#Colorization
User avatar
MTres19
 
Posts: 191
Joined: 17 Aug 2015, 20:15

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby AlwaysLast » 23 Feb 2017, 11:28

No, I don't have to buy new, but - disclosure - I'm in the UK where perhaps there isn't quite as mature a second-hand market. Of course the plummeting exchange rate hasn't done the prices of IT goods any favours and at the moment it seems as if (when VAT (tax) is applied) $1 == £1. In other words, from my point of view many things are between 20% and 40% more expensive now than they were a year ago.

I really don't want to go bleeding edge with this upgrade. As I said at the start, gaming is a minor part of what I do on the computer. I want a card I can slot in and be done with it. Something like the GTX770 would mean a PSU upgrade as a minimum (the system has a 350W PSU at the moment) and I also think it's completely mismatched to the APU processor I have. Thanks for the links to the other comparison sites - they sort of back up the information I was getting from videocardbenchmark.net

On my scan through specifications I thought I had noticed that most of the cards I was looking at were DVI-D, but looking again it seems as if most are actually DVI-I, and I already have DVI-I to VGA adapters (use them a lot at work) so that solves that problem, thanks for the pointer.

AB.
AlwaysLast
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 19 Feb 2017, 00:54

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby charlie » 23 Feb 2017, 11:48

I got an Nvidia Gigabyte GeForce GTX 750Ti and it runs STK very well. Built a desktop for my living room for about £250 or so.

I got it for £100 at the time (is £117 atm) but I was looking specifically for low profile versions; a high profile version may be cheaper.
Free Gamer - it's the dogz
Vexi - web UI platform
User avatar
charlie
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2131
Joined: 02 Dec 2009, 11:56
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Graphics card upgrade

Postby Arthur » 23 Feb 2017, 12:11

I'd say go with what your budget and conscience allows - as you say you don't use your computer that much for gaming in general. Both AMD and NVIDIA cards are good choices; as noted by others the former will work better out of the box and have relatively good open source drivers. Personally I use NVIDIA with the proprietary driver on my main computer because I believe I get the most performance out of it, but AMD drivers are catching up it seems. Without knowing more about your current wattage draw from your PSU and your budget I cannot give more specific advice, but I think investing in a 500 watt PSU might be necessary depending on other hardware. From what I recall dedicated graphics card typically take somewhere in the range of 100-150 watt, and having a bit of extra wattage than strictly needed on a PSU seems to be what people recommend.
Hey pal, I took an oath for justice! "In happy days or tightest tights..." or something like that.
User avatar
Arthur
 
Posts: 1073
Joined: 06 Dec 2009, 00:49

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest