Exclude evil characters

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby deve » 18 Jul 2015, 10:32

Don't be fanatic...

Nobody knows what is IceCat :-P
deve
 
Posts: 268
Joined: 23 Jan 2014, 13:45

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby samuncle » 18 Jul 2015, 10:45

This is my own opinion and not the opinion from the team (because we hadn't the time yet to debate) but I would agree with Deve.

Let's not be fanatic, I think mozilla simply had no choice, they have only 25% of the market if people can't watch their netflix on Firefox their market will simply plummet. It might be sad and all that but it's simply true. People don't care that much about freedom in software.

To quote one of the comment
I don't think it's that simple. Just suppose Mozilla had decided to stand up against DRM, once again. What would have happened?

Ultimately, Google, Microsoft, Apple and consorts wouldn't have cared and would have stopped trying to properly work on Firefox, and their sites would only work on Google Chrome, Safari, Internet Explorer... Firefox would be left out.

When Baker says "Mozilla cannot change the industry on DRM at this point.", I think they are right. For years, Firefox usage has slowly but constantly declined since mid-2009 and is now around 25% of the Internet traffic, according to w3schools. Firefox is not the biggest player anymore, Chrome is.

Sure, 25% is still a thing. However, if Youtube or Netflix stopped being compatible with Firefox tomorrow, most people would stop using it. It's not the other way round: too few users care enough about an Open Web to boycott such huge services.

Unfortunately, because Firefox isn't the main actor anymore means that standing up alone against DRM wouldn't have as much power as it would have if they still represented more than 40% of the traffic and were the biggest browser. Had they tried that today, they'd have probably died in the end.

And I think Firefox's survival is more important than a completely DRM-free Internet, which already wasn't DRM-free anyway: think about Flash Player... Even with the rise of HTML5, many popular websites are still using it. And are you really boycotting it?

Well, maybe you are. But still, people with a completely anti-DRM stance are but a small fraction of Internet users nowadays. Because they know that, they can't afford at Mozilla to just deprive the average user from their daily Youtube/Netflix and only keep among their users those rare people that are ready to completely boycott those services.


Sam
Image
User avatar
samuncle
STK Moderator
 
Posts: 752
Joined: 16 Mar 2010, 21:28

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby konstin » 18 Jul 2015, 20:28

When judging about mozilla's position towards freedom, should not only consider this one case where a standard by the W3C was implemented by the last major browser, but also the work that mozilla did supporting freedom. This includes big efforts on many open standards and their implementations that make an open web possible, e.g. html5 video and audio, which supersede the proprietary and unsafe flash, webRTC, which has the potential of replacing skype, and of course many javascript improvements such as webGL, asm.js and many new language features. mozilla also improved the freedom of the user by supporting user-defined cookie policies, DoNotTrack, lightbeam and add-ons that can change nearly everything the browser does.

You also shouldn't forget that mozilla isn't the only organisation including blob's in their software. In the contrary, there is much open-source-software that uses non-free codecs or blob's, e.g. many linux distributions include binary drivers and every program that can play mp3 files uses non-free technology, as there are still some patents on mp3 pending.

Though I also really don't like DRM for many reasons, I don't think that STK needs to remove mozilla's mascot just because they included a blob in firefox, and I'ld claim that even the EFF would agree to that.
konstin
 
Posts: 37
Joined: 31 May 2014, 20:54

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby ArDanWol » 19 Jul 2015, 01:03

I don't think we need to change the race ref over this ;)
I'm know pretty much everywhere else on the internet as "Kpenguin"
"Profanity is one language all computer users know" - Murphy's 50th Law of Computers
Software bugs are impossible to detect by anybody except the end user - Murphy's 31st law of software
Each computer code has five bugs, regardless of how many bugs have been already found - Murphy's 50th law of software
"That's not a bug, it's an undocumented feature!"
User avatar
ArDanWol
 
Posts: 181
Joined: 07 Nov 2014, 17:36
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby Arthur » 19 Jul 2015, 03:59

Actually, the more important question would be: what would we replace it with? We've never been free software purists, and unless we have to replace something quickly because it turns out we can't use it under a CC license, we don't replace art unless we have something even better ready.

So until we see a better replacement, I really doubt there is much to discuss here.
Hey pal, I took an oath for justice! "In happy days or tightest tights..." or something like that.
User avatar
Arthur
 
Posts: 1073
Joined: 06 Dec 2009, 00:49

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby eltomito » 19 Jul 2015, 07:27

Arthur {l Wrote}:Actually, the more important question would be: what would we replace it with? We've never been free software purists, and unless we have to replace something quickly because it turns out we can't use it under a CC license, we don't replace art unless we have something even better ready.

So until we see a better replacement, I really doubt there is much to discuss here.


Well, not that I think Bluebird has suddenly turned evil but it could be actually funny to put an Ice Dove half mask on the ref's face - something like this: http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/leather- ... 118805.jpg but white. Because that's what Ice Dove is, Bluebird with its identity changed, right?

Ice Dove isn't really well known but I had to google Puffy, Pidgin, Hexley, Adiumi and others to find out what they were. And I actually know one person who uses Ice Weasel, so he may be using Ice Dove too :)
User avatar
eltomito
 
Posts: 279
Joined: 15 Mar 2013, 09:25

Postby tuxkartdriver » 20 Jul 2015, 02:57

-
Last edited by tuxkartdriver on 08 Jan 2016, 21:47, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
tuxkartdriver
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 08 Jun 2013, 06:11

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby charlie » 20 Jul 2015, 08:27

I thought Sara was an STK character. ;)
Free Gamer - it's the dogz
Vexi - web UI platform
User avatar
charlie
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2132
Joined: 02 Dec 2009, 11:56
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby Akien » 20 Jul 2015, 09:58

charlie {l Wrote}:I thought Sara was an STK character. ;)

Well she is also the mascot of OpenGameArt, so in some way she is a free/libre mascot too :)

I think STK does a pretty good job at creating a consistent universe while using mascots of free software projects, I don't think it should part with this initial philosophy, as long as it's not a huge limit to the artists' creativity.
And I don't think Mozilla mascots should be removed based on what's been discussed above, as said already, Mozilla had no real choice. And the HTML5 DRM are way better IMO that this junk of Flash that is still plaguing the Internet.
Godot Engine project manager and maintainer.
Occasional FOSS gamedev: Lugaru, OpenDungeons, Jetpaca, Minilens.
User avatar
Akien
 
Posts: 737
Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 13:14

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby ArDanWol » 21 Jul 2015, 03:54

I'd love for us to come up with an exclusive STK character!
I'm know pretty much everywhere else on the internet as "Kpenguin"
"Profanity is one language all computer users know" - Murphy's 50th Law of Computers
Software bugs are impossible to detect by anybody except the end user - Murphy's 31st law of software
Each computer code has five bugs, regardless of how many bugs have been already found - Murphy's 50th law of software
"That's not a bug, it's an undocumented feature!"
User avatar
ArDanWol
 
Posts: 181
Joined: 07 Nov 2014, 17:36
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby samuncle » 21 Jul 2015, 21:10

Hi, yes currently all characters are from open source mascot. We might have two exclusive characters to SuperTuxKart soon, but I can't promise anything.
Image
User avatar
samuncle
STK Moderator
 
Posts: 752
Joined: 16 Mar 2010, 21:28

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby Wuzzy » 28 Jul 2015, 03:50

Not really serious compromise idea: Make all “evil” mascots antagonists in story mode because they teamed up with Nolok and went to the dark side. ;)
User avatar
Wuzzy
 
Posts: 985
Joined: 28 May 2012, 23:13

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby ArDanWol » 28 Jul 2015, 17:08

Hehe :D
I'm know pretty much everywhere else on the internet as "Kpenguin"
"Profanity is one language all computer users know" - Murphy's 50th Law of Computers
Software bugs are impossible to detect by anybody except the end user - Murphy's 31st law of software
Each computer code has five bugs, regardless of how many bugs have been already found - Murphy's 50th law of software
"That's not a bug, it's an undocumented feature!"
User avatar
ArDanWol
 
Posts: 181
Joined: 07 Nov 2014, 17:36
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby GreenLunar » 18 Aug 2015, 18:20

Wuzzy {l Wrote}:Not really serious compromise idea: Make all “evil” mascots antagonists in story mode because they teamed up with Nolok and went to the dark side. ;)


Great idea!
GreenLunar
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 29 Apr 2015, 17:08

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby GreenLunar » 18 Aug 2015, 18:21

For an easy fix, I suggest to color the current bird to green (instead of blue) and announce it is the KMess bird.

KMess
http://kmess.org/
GreenLunar
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 29 Apr 2015, 17:08

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby Akien » 18 Aug 2015, 18:29

GreenLunar {l Wrote}:For an easy fix, I suggest to color the current bird to green (instead of blue) and announce it is the KMess bird.

KMess
http://kmess.org/

So replace a well established brand of one of the firms that did most for open source by the mascot of an unmaintained client for a retired messaging network? ;)
Seriously, if we start considering Firefox or Thunderbird evil, then we should probably also drop Tux as the mascot of the Linux kernel.
Godot Engine project manager and maintainer.
Occasional FOSS gamedev: Lugaru, OpenDungeons, Jetpaca, Minilens.
User avatar
Akien
 
Posts: 737
Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 13:14

Re: Exclude evil characters

Postby Arthur » 19 Aug 2015, 02:30

To clarify something, it's never called Thunderbird in the game, and while the design has been inspired by the Thunderbird logo, just think of it as a similar looking bird, if the Mozilla association bothers you that much.
Hey pal, I took an oath for justice! "In happy days or tightest tights..." or something like that.
User avatar
Arthur
 
Posts: 1073
Joined: 06 Dec 2009, 00:49

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest