SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby Auria » 04 May 2015, 02:15

Wuzzy {l Wrote}:I have looked into STK again and managed to get the graphics (kinda) to work on graphics level 4, but I am forced to use a resoultion of 800×600.
Whatever, the game kinda works in this resolution, only a few strings don't fit in well.

But I finally got to see the amount of work you have put into the new engine and now I am impressed. It is a huge leap forward compared to version 0.8.1.
I like the GP editor and already have created 14 GPs for fun: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6324

The Story Mode is still a bit short and even easy (for me). I got all gold trophies on about 2 days, but on the other hand, I already have beaten Story Mode several times in previous versions.
The new achivements are, like, really easy (and one of them is broken, issue is reported), but I already discussed achievements somewhere else.

But I can fully understand you haven't put work into Story Mode and other stuff this time, I bet the new engine alone made you really busy.


About story mode being a bit short, well it's also a bit difficult to make a 60-hour karting game, you know? ;) the best we can do is what we do atm, make you race each track twice (once alone, once in GP). I don't think it would be good to ask players to play tracks more than twice, more than that would feel like artifically increasing the duration of the game.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby modz » 04 May 2015, 14:07

Hi,

I have downloaded version 0.9. when I played with the lowest setting, cpu load reaches 95%, is that normal?

My PC:
Processor : AMD Vishera FX-8350
Mainboard : MSI 970-Gaming
RAM : 8GB Dual-channel
VGA : HIS Radeon R9 270X 2GB 256 bit DDR5
OS : Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit

Thanks
AMD Vishera FX-8350
MSI 970-Gaming
RAM 8GB DDR3 dual-channel
VGA HIS Radeon R9 270X 2GB 256bit DDR5

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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby Seebi » 05 May 2015, 20:07

Hi modz,

that's normal if you are using windows. The cause is that OpenMP uses "busy waiting" per default on windows which creates the high cpu load.
So far I only know one way to fix this issue: You can set the environment variable OMP_WAIT_POLICY to "passive" in your system settings.
This setting should reduce the cpu load. After changing it you may need to logout and in again so it becomes effective.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby qubodup » 06 May 2015, 22:11

The high quality graphics look gorgeous! Kinda slow on my Radeon HD 7750 2GBDDR3 though.


youtu.be/WO5Y2wXBdXo

I mean look at this! This is so good!!!:

youtu.be/jYufwcAcHcE
Haha! Look at XFCE Mouse dance at the end!

Technical feedback:
  • The preview images should probably be updated. Northern resort looks nothing like the preview image any more :)
  • In the above northern resort video you will also find a weird physics bug at 2:15
  • On my XBOX 360 controller equivalent Speedlink SL 6556-BK XEOS PRO ANALOG GAMEPAD USB, the right shoulder button (not trigger) opens the pause/menu, which is weird. "Start" should be doing that. Also it seems like the dead zone isn't taken into account when easing left/right movement. When I exit the deadzone, the character turns too strongly.
  • I'm not sure how I triggered this but there seems to be a bug where a skid sound never ends https://youtube.com/watch?v=EocaK7gpe5w . I seem to have triggered the same with another sound as well. this sounds quite creepy http://youtu.be/vd9P5SIs1Y0
  • With my graphics card, the computer would crash in STK when running open source amd drivers. I think the same happened in Unvanquished. I switched to catalyst and it doesn't happen any more.
  • I have no idea how to skid.
  • There is no sound for collision-with-boxes
  • The preview loading of the race carts is unbearably slow http://youtu.be/BFFDkNwaAIs up to 11 seconds when Suzann is the previously selected character - the main problem is that graphics freeze like there's a bug. Ideally the selection cursor would still work and there would be a "loading" information instead of the model at the top part and by moving to the next character, you would interrupt that loading. There should also be a loading screen while waiting to enter the singleplayer menu.
  • Nitro/boost feels wrong without a sound. This might be suitable or inspiring another sound being made (comes with audacity sources): http://opengameart.org/content/racing-speed-boost-sound
  • The pyramid level is beautiful but there seems to be a weird physics bug (2:05 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noXgxgAwNjQ )
  • Often the music stops playing in loading screens, which seems weird. It should probably fade out or just keep playing in the loading screens.
  • It seems like the story mode character in story mode depends on the last selected character in a single player race. I'm all for allowing to switch the character during story mode. But this should probably be in the player settings or allowed to be set before (re-)entering story mode.
  • The dark grass (zen garden) looks especially out of place with low graphics settings.It maybe has too much detail and contrast?

Personal nagging:
- Everything is wrong about the story mode.
-- Tux doesn't live in mushrooms. This isn't smurfs. Tux lives in an igloo.
-- The intro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H-GGjWHQDU is too slow regarding action,
-- the serious music played by gnu doesn't fit the game at all,
-- The voice is horrible - please just use text-only with non-language voice sound loops - something like http://www.freesound.org/people/qubodup/sounds/273509/ perhaps,
-- The evil character talks too much. Really.
-- "hippie" is way too political a term for this.
-- Thank you a thousand times for not making sara be kidnapped though.
- I think too many levels have mean turns and not enough warning signs. Enterprise is especially evil. In the coco level village it's super hard to see where you can go at all. In addition, dead ends are only annoying and not interesting level design.
- It doesn't feel right that "up" on an analog stick should mean "forward" in a car racing game. Instead a button or RTrigger should be forward.
- I don't like that human mascots (Sara drivers) were added. I dislike the cartoon style that mixes personificated animals and humans. I would prefer this to be a animals-only game to keep the style consistent.
- I don't like that player characters are used for race stand-buyers. It makes no sense (player character is cloned? I'm serious - it's fine to clone no-name bystanders but not main characters) and degrades them to general-purpose models rather than heroes of the game. Also they are standing in dangerous place (see child/parent-friendlyness below. Surely teaching children to take life seriously while crossing the street is a big enough task for parents to delete a game that ignores that thought).
- I absolutely don't like the sexual innuendo in the 0.9 trailer (eg. shaking butt at the camera at 0:52 ). STK will always be compared to MarioKart and to its standards of child-friendliness (which also means "parents-don't-worry, nothing offensive in here effect").
- According to some screenshot on some mailing list, Sara has undies. Why would anybody model and texture undies for Sara if they didn't intend for them to be seen? Just like with the bikini butt shaking in the trailer, please get rid of this aspect of the model and please keep even just playfully sexual content out.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby ArDanWol » 06 May 2015, 23:04

Hi,
For information about your nagging at the end of your post, please see the following link: http://www.miriamruiz.es/weblog/?p=774 It will explain a little more in detail about this issue as it has been going around the mailing lists. ;)
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby hiker » 07 May 2015, 03:02

qubodup {l Wrote}:The high quality graphics look gorgeous! Kinda slow on my Radeon HD 7750 2GBDDR3 though.

Thanks!
...
qubodup {l Wrote}:[*] In the above northern resort video you will also find a weird physics bug at 2:15

See https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-code/issues/2094 - I think (at this stage) that those issues are related, a problem with the code trying to keep karts upright/parallel to the ground.

[*] On my XBOX 360 controller equivalent Speedlink SL 6556-BK XEOS PRO ANALOG GAMEPAD USB, the right shoulder button (not trigger) opens the pause/menu, which is weird. "Start" should be doing that. Also it seems like the dead zone isn't taken into account when easing left/right movement. When I exit the deadzone, the character turns too strongly.

and later
- It doesn't feel right that "up" on an analog stick should mean "forward" in a car racing game. Instead a button or RTrigger should be forward.

https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-code/issues/2096

Could you clarify the deadzone issue? Is it just that the animation is too strong (which I think it is, it might need to take the speed more into account), or does the kart really turn too much . Just try one of the battle maps to check the turn radius.

Could you also check the deadzone value? It's in the user config file gamepad.xml. We have changed the values, but there might be a chance that it picks up some old values if you had tried stk before the release candidate at least.

[*] I'm not sure how I triggered this but there seems to be a bug where a skid sound never ends https://youtube.com/watch?v=EocaK7gpe5w . I seem to have triggered the same with another sound as well. this sounds quite creepy http://youtu.be/vd9P5SIs1Y0

You are not the first one to report that :( If you could somehow find out how to reproduce it, it would be a great help. So far none of us ever could :(

[*] With my graphics card, the computer would crash in STK when running open source amd drivers. I think the same happened in Unvanquished. I switched to catalyst and it doesn't happen any more.

Likely a driver bug. You could try to disable graphics settings (go to the details, and try to find out which option causes this). If you send us the details (card, driver version, which options), we can actually disable those features for certain drivers on certain os's etc ;)
[*] I have no idea how to skid.

Play our tutorial, or look at the controller settings.

[*] There is no sound for collision-with-boxes

Good point :)

[*] The preview loading of the race carts is unbearably slow http://youtu.be/BFFDkNwaAIs up to 11 seconds when Suzann is the previously selected character - the main problem is that graphics freeze like there's a bug. Ideally the selection cursor would still work and there would be a "loading" information instead of the model at the top part and by moving to the next character, you would interrupt that loading. There should also be a loading screen while waiting to enter the singleplayer menu.

What platform are you on? For me it is very slow the first time I go to that screen (because most shaders are compiled just then), but not that slow going from one kart to the next. Hmm - I just tried again, and it is a tad slow for me, not as bad as you.

[*] Nitro/boost feels wrong without a sound. This might be suitable or inspiring another sound being made (comes with audacity sources): http://opengameart.org/content/racing-speed-boost-sound

Indeed - zippers do have a sound, but not nitro. I am not sure about the sfx you have, but it might be a start. I've opened a ticket for that.
[*] The pyramid level is beautiful but there seems to be a weird physics bug (2:05 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noXgxgAwNjQ )

https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-code/issues/2084
[*] Often the music stops playing in loading screens, which seems weird. It should probably fade out or just keep playing in the loading screens.

Yes, that could perhaps be improved. On tracks with sfx (e.g. Scotland), there will be some sfx playing at this stage.

[*] It seems like the story mode character in story mode depends on the last selected character in a single player race. I'm all for allowing to switch the character during story mode. But this should probably be in the player settings or allowed to be set before (re-)entering story mode.

You can drive into the garage (behind you in story mode) and change karts anytime.

...
I hope I don't do anything by not using spoiler here:
-- Tux doesn't live in mushrooms. This isn't smurfs. Tux lives in an igloo.

Obviously he's just coming out from doing a challenge - story mode obviously shows that :P Or ... he's on holiday :) Or it is discrimination to force him out in the cold ;) Or ... it's simply we could only integrate that much into the overworld, and had to reuse assets.
-- The intro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H-GGjWHQDU is too slow regarding action,
-- the serious music played by gnu doesn't fit the game at all,

Maybe, though I have to admit I like the serenity ;)

-- The voice is horrible - please just use text-only with non-language voice sound loops - something like http://www.freesound.org/people/qubodup/sounds/273509/ perhaps,
-- The evil character talks too much. Really.
-- "hippie" is way too political a term for this.

Gee, don't get me started on voices - it appears to be one of the most discussed (well, make this 2nd most now) things in STK. And one reason why we don't have driver specific sound effects. They are either boring (according to some), annoying (according to others), ... - it seems to be impossible to agree on anything :)

I slightly changed order:
-- Thank you a thousand times for not making sara be kidnapped though.
- I don't like that human mascots (Sara drivers) were added. I dislike the cartoon style that mixes personificated animals and humans. I would prefer this to be a animals-only game to keep the style consistent.

As mentioned in Miriam's blog (http://www.miriamruiz.es/weblog/?p=774) for me(!) it was an important step to get girls more engaged. Based on feedback I had it works, so I think that's actually very good. And I definitely do not want a rescued-princess, and prefer a rescue-princess (hopefully in an extension of the story mode, though we don't have any details at this stage). I think getting this point out is important! Also, there were other karts with humanoid drivers (in the addons), though they have not been ported, e.g. Audacity Girl, Catapult Ted, Proog, X-moto.

- I think too many levels have mean turns and not enough warning signs. Enterprise is especially evil. In the coco level village it's super hard to see where you can go at all.

Our advanced player prefer more challenging courses, i.e. needing skill to know when to slow down, and not just 'full speed'. I myself am a pretty bad player ;P , and prefer wider tracks where you can go fast all the time ;) We try to balance this a bit by our unlocking mechanism. But yes, you need to practice tracks and know them .... at the same time that's not an excuse for some of the really bad places. Enterprise is not too bad (if you look at the minimap), it's mostly 90 degrees turn that you can anticipate this way. 'Old Mine' is a sore spot for me - there is one uphill section which more or less requires you to slow down and turn slightly right to avoid crashing into a barrier (or in the previous release end up in a pool). Hopefully we can get those issues improved over time.

Track design is still a very difficult thing to get right - Mario Kart's track-designer have an incredible skill there! I would really love to have more artists working on tracks so that we can get more high quality ones, and get our own experiences and suggestion with what works, and what doesn't. But unfortunately tracks are a lot of work :(

In addition, dead ends are only annoying and not interesting level design.

What exactly do you mean by that? I have some problems with some tracks (Mine, Enterprise) since there walls with support beams (or so) in them, which you can get stuck at - very annoying. Maybe we should add invisible walls to make those section inaccessible (or not use them in the first place).

Is this what you mean? If not, can you give an example?

- I don't like that player characters are used for race stand-buyers. It makes no sense (player character is cloned? I'm serious - it's fine to clone no-name bystanders but not main characters) and degrades them to general-purpose models rather than heroes of the game. Also they are standing in dangerous place (see child/parent-friendlyness below. Surely teaching children to take life seriously while crossing the street is a big enough task for parents to delete a game that ignores that thought).
- I absolutely don't like the sexual innuendo in the 0.9 trailer (eg. shaking butt at the camera at 0:52 ). STK will always be compared to MarioKart and to its standards of child-friendliness (which also means "parents-don't-worry, nothing offensive in here effect").
- According to some screenshot on some mailing list, Sara has undies. Why would anybody model and texture undies for Sara if they didn't intend for them to be seen? Just like with the bikini butt shaking in the trailer, please get rid of this aspect of the model and please keep even just playfully sexual content out.


That's been mostly discussed without end elsewhere, Miriam's (who was very active in the thread discussion those things) blog at http://www.miriamruiz.es/weblog/?p=774 gives a much more neutral discussion on that (and contains links to some of the discussions).

Thanks a lot for your valuable feedback!
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby Auria » 08 May 2015, 00:40

Another little addendum for qubodup : the overworld and introduction cutscene could definitely be improved. What we have at this time are what we were able to produce from limited resources, we of course welcome any talented artists who would like to help us! Some points are debatable of course but we are quite aware of the areas that require improvements in these parts
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby samuncle » 22 May 2015, 08:43

Just to add a quick precision:
- I don't like that player characters are used for race stand-buyers. It makes no sense (player character is cloned? I'm serious - it's fine to clone no-name bystanders but not main characters) and degrades them to general-purpose models rather than heroes of the game. Also they are standing in dangerous place (see child/parent-friendlyness below. Surely teaching children to take life seriously while crossing the street is a big enough task for parents to delete a game that ignores that thought).


Sure I perfectly agree with you. So can you provide us different model for the public, with different colors/cloths etc. We have extremely limited resources and time, so if people create original public characters they are welcome in the game.
If you try to make a fully animated character in 3D you will soon realize it's easier to just reuse the model (btw everybody does it even Disney, Pixar, etc). Also the fact we reuse models from our characters makes them somehow (at least in my humble opinion) more connected with the tracks and universe. The best thing would be similar but with different cloths.
Another point if you do 2 identical characters with 2 different colors for the game it will be like 2 different characters and their data won't be shared. Instead of filling the VRAM of the GPU with very similar character we prefer to add more variety to the game.

About their dangerous placement I doubt in a game where you can throw cakes against opponents, ram against other players etc, the detail someone is standing in a "dangerous" place is an issue.
And if you want to compare it to mario kart even if we are a different game they have characters crossing the road (and you have to avoid them otherwise it slow you down).
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby PaYn0te » 25 May 2015, 13:13

Hello Guys,
I´ve played STK on Windows 7.
After resetting my PC to windows 8, I couldn't play STK anymore.
There is a bug with the graphics (http://prntscr.com/795r2p , http://prntscr.com/795r6v)
I hope you can help me!
LG PaYn0te

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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby Arthur » 26 May 2015, 17:20

Hi PaYn0te, a friend of mine had the same issue but it was solved by installing the very latest NVIDIA driver from their website. If you could try that and confirm if it works, that would be great!
Hey pal, I took an oath for justice! "In happy days or tightest tights..." or something like that.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby duskylizard » 31 May 2015, 16:04

Hi,
Today I downloaded this version and installed on my computer with Windows 8.1 operating system. However, it seems to be completely glitched - for ex. main screen is nothing but random white letters (I've taken screenshots, but I can't upload them, because every time I upload one of them I see that it's invalid). I've got newest versions of Framework & Visual C++, so I haven't got any idea what's causing this problem. It will be kind of You if You help me solve it. Cheers!
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby Auria » 02 Jun 2015, 01:14

duskylizard {l Wrote}:Hi,
Today I downloaded this version and installed on my computer with Windows 8.1 operating system. However, it seems to be completely glitched - for ex. main screen is nothing but random white letters (I've taken screenshots, but I can't upload them, because every time I upload one of them I see that it's invalid). I've got newest versions of Framework & Visual C++, so I haven't got any idea what's causing this problem. It will be kind of You if You help me solve it. Cheers!



Hi, what is your graphics card? Do you have the latest version of the drivers? This can usually be attributed to buggy drivers, unfortunately
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby duskylizard » 04 Jun 2015, 09:04

Auria {l Wrote}:
duskylizard {l Wrote}:Hi,
Today I downloaded this version and installed on my computer with Windows 8.1 operating system. However, it seems to be completely glitched - for ex. main screen is nothing but random white letters (I've taken screenshots, but I can't upload them, because every time I upload one of them I see that it's invalid). I've got newest versions of Framework & Visual C++, so I haven't got any idea what's causing this problem. It will be kind of You if You help me solve it. Cheers!



Hi, what is your graphics card? Do you have the latest version of the drivers? This can usually be attributed to buggy drivers, unfortunately

Hi, thanks for the reply. My graphic card is Intel(R) G41 Express Chipset (Microsoft Corporation - WDDM 1.1). I tried to check on Device Menager for newest drivers, however it said that I've got them already. And today I received a crash message (specified already in another topic), after updating on Windows Update Framework.
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby Tuxfan » 10 Jun 2015, 23:04

Hi Riko893!
I am not sure if I understand your suggestion correctly. What do you exactly expect of a built-in kart editor?
  • Do you want to be able to create a completely new kart model from scratch? In that case I strongly recommend an external tool called blender. Blender is a powerful 3D modelling tool, that is powerful enough to allow modelling both karts and tracks for SuperTuxKart.
  • Do you wish to be able to create a kart by combining ready made parts of a kart? That might an idea worth noting - however it will take a lot of effort to actually implement such a feature. It will take the combined effort of a coder, several modellers and probably a user interface designer and thus is currently not feasible.
  • Would you like to alter the driving physics of a kart without changing the appearance of a kart?
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby dodo47 » 04 Jul 2015, 09:14

Hi
on my pc

( win 7 - proc AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 640 Processor 3.00 GHz
Graph. ATI mod AMD RADEON HD 6450 mem 3839 MB )

i cannot use the new realize 9 owing to several problems like wait time (about 20 sec to charge 1 track), and graphics, ie attached (i dont see tracks on the left neither speed).

My question is: may i use some 9 tracks on 8 version ?

regards
domenico
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby Auria » 04 Jul 2015, 23:48

Hi,

I am unsure why the minimap would be invisible, I don't believe we've ever seen that one :/ Since we do not have this issue it may be a little hard to fix. Also, do you have the latest version of the drivers? These kind of problems are sometimes driver issues

and unfortunately, no you cannot using 0.9 tracks in 0.8
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby Anon » 05 Jul 2015, 00:24

dodo47 {l Wrote}:My question is: may i use some 9 tracks on 8 version ?

Auria {l Wrote}:and unfortunately, no you cannot using 0.9 tracks in 0.8

It's possible to port 0.9 tracks back to be used with 0.8 though (I tried this with an early version of Cocoa Temple, back when it was still "chocolate"). Depending on whether the devs express opposition to this (it might be detrimental to the adoption of 0.9 or something?), and how much trouble it proves to be, I might be willing to port a single new track back so that players still on 0.8 can at least race on it.

Obviously this would have a lot of limitations (due to engine improvements in 0.9, both visible and otherwise), but it could be worth it to port one of the more advanced tracks.

Would you be interested in this, dodo47? (Or anyone else who can't run 0.9)
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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby samuncle » 05 Jul 2015, 10:14

Hi everyone, just a quick answer (I'm busy).

@Anon yes you can do that, you are free to try but it's not recommended for several reasons. Here is why:

1) Basically the new Cocoa Temple has a lot of polygon. An old GPU even if converted to 0.8.1 would have troubles running it.
2) You would have to make a "very low poly version" (which is basically what Amazonian journey was).
3) You can't share it (simply because we closed the old addon website).
4) We only support SuperTuxKart 0.9, and try to focus to the newer version.

I know it's sad some people are not able to play the last version but they can still try the older one. Porting new track to the old version would be painful and not worth it (for instance the library).

If you want to help to the project I would recommend to create assets for the new mansion here is more information viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6413

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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby dodo47 » 06 Jul 2015, 10:01

Auria {l Wrote}:Hi,

I am unsure why the minimap would be invisible, I don't believe we've ever seen that one :/ Since we do not have this issue it may be a little hard to fix. Also, do you have the latest version of the drivers? These kind of problems are sometimes driver issues

and unfortunately, no you cannot using 0.9 tracks in 0.8


Hi and tks for your answer
i just update my graphic card with most recent drivers and now i can see the correct images, with track on the left and speedy on the right.
Just it remains the time wait to charge tracks (about 20 sec.), but it has been a very good success.

Tks to all

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Re: SuperTuxKart 0.9 Released

Postby Auria » 06 Jul 2015, 23:48

Glad to know it works better now.

As for load times, we can definitely improve on that - though please also consider that many current commercial games often have load times of 30-40 seconds, so STK is not that bad on this front.
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