The Usefulness of Drafting

[HappyFeet]

First of all, I love this game! I just updated to version 0.8, and I was blown away by the awesome new campaign mode, as well as the new map updates. Excellent!

However, I want to begin a discussion of drafting. I don't find it useful. Most of the time, when I attempt to use drafting I end up getting a bowling ball in my face. Even when I know the opponent doesn't have a weapon, the time it takes to draft effecively is often longer than the distance between item boxes. Because of this I never attempt to draft an opponent.

Thus, I propose that the time it takes to draft be shortened and the boost for successfully drafting be extended. I think that would make me more interested in the risk/reward of drafting, instead of avoiding it every time.

Just my thoughts,
Happy Feet

[charlie]

I think you meant to post this in STK; moving.

[bonifarz]

Just to be sure everyone gets your point right, you refer to the slip-stream feature, right?
install/data/stk_config.xml:

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

    <!-- Slipstream: length: How far behind a kart slipstream works
         width: how wide slipstream works furthest away from the kart.
         collect-time: How many seconds of sstream give  maximum benefit
         use-time: How long the benefit will last.
         add-power: Additional power due to sstreaming. 1 = +100%
         min-speed: Minimum speed necessary for slipstream to take effect.
         max-speed-increase: How much the speed of the kart might exceed
         its normal maximum speed.
         duration: How long the higher speed lasts after slipstream stopped
         working.
         fade-out-time: How long the slip stream speed increase will
         gradually be reduced.  -->
    <slipstream length="10" width="2" collect-time="2" use-time="5"
                add-power="3" min-speed="10"
                max-speed-increase="5" duration="1" fade-out-time="2"/>

I have rarely seen this in use, as skidding seems to be more effective and saver to execute. Maybe this a niche strategy for trial with multiple karts, though.

[Arthur]

Actually I have suggested removing slipstreaming completely because it's not easy to use correctly and there have been many occasions where people happen to get it without meaning to, with disastreous results.

[Totoplus62]

I did not understand ^^ but if this is about skidding, i just wanted to say it is currently really nice

[Funto]

+1 for removing slipstream, I still haven't understood how to trigger it

[Tuxfan]

I can really live without the slipstream feature, since it is quite hard to use it.

But instead of removing it, it could be further polished. There should be a bar similar to the nitro bar, that is filled up until the slip stream feature is unlocked, since the hardest part about using slip stream is that I never know when it is ready to used.
@Funto: Once you have stayed for enough time behind an opponents kart, then you have to move out of the slipstream to trigger the bonus boost.

Maybe new players might get confused, since there are five different ways to receive boost in STK:
a) Slipstream
b) Nitro
c) Drifting
d) Zipper Powerup
e) Zipper on a track

Currently I see slipstream only as a feature for STK pro gramers.

[charlie]

Personally I think nitro should be ditched entirely.

[antoine]

@tuxfan
don't forget the AI too. They love using the slip stream on each other.

I have to agree, I'm not really sure how long I need to follow before it's ready for use. I just get happy whenever it works. Sometimes the build up seems much shorter than others.

[asciimonster]

Personally I don't use slip streams mainly because of the waiting period before it activates. When you get in the slip stream you need to stay there for a full 4 or 5 seconds before it activates and at second 3.9 you always break the stream by 0.1 second... annoying. And then, when you do manage to hang on and the boost activates, you simply crash into the kart in front of you, making all that effort of naught.

Most of the time it's a pointless exercise and that's why I stopped doing it.

Currently the drafting bonus works like a speed boost (v):
v_total = v_normal + Active*v_boost
where Active = 1 when drafting > 4 or 5 sec; otherwise 0

I would suggest making it a acceleration bonus (note acceleration a = F/m):
F_total = F_engine + Active*F_boost
where Active = 1 when in slipstream, otherwise 0. You could also choose a gradual increase: Active = 1*(1/distance_between_karts)

This way the boost works like a sling shot: You watch as the distance between you and the kart in front of you decreases, then make a pass. If you move too soon or too late: Try again.

[Totoplus62]

Personally I think nitro should be ditched entirely.

No ! Nitro is nice !

About this feature "Slipstream" i agree with you this is currently bad, make it be realistic (no "nitro" but a very slight acceleration while being behind someone ! ) will be more funny, usefull, rewarding and more competitive .

[bonifarz]

I would suggest making it a acceleration bonus (note acceleration a = F/m)

But does the temporary gain of engine power not translate into an accelerating force?

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

add-power="3"

I thought speed is not affected directly, but top speed and power are raised temporarily. And according to the description in the config file (see above), the collect-time is two seconds, not four. Maybe the width of two is a bit narrow to execute it properly?

[ctdabomb]

part of the problem about slipstreaming, is that when you get the boost, you usually end up hitting the kart in front of you, which slows you down, and speeds them up. quite annoying.

[RaceAce]

Personally, I think the drafting should be kept. Maybe have a check box to disable it if desired? I like the idea of some sort of bar to show how long you have drafted and when the boost is available. I don't agree with Charlie, I think nitro should stay, it's a rather integral part of the game. Simply removing it from all the tracks would be hard.

[hiker]

Personally I think nitro should be ditched entirely.

I was thinking that now and again as well I have to admit, just because it needs an additional key, which makes the game more complex (and I know that we only added nitro years ago because the game felt too slow and did not have enough items on the tracks).

On the other hand, I agree that slipstream is not really useful atm, and nitro is also one thing that sets STK apart from a certain other commercial game So we will certainly look at this, and see what comments people come up here in this thread.

If anyone feels like tuning slipstream: first of all there is the "--slipstream-debug" command line option, which will show you the area behind each kart where you can collect slipsteam, and the colour will change if you are in that area etc.
Then search for the following section in data/stk_config.xml:

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

    <!-- Slipstream: length: How far behind a kart slipstream works
         width: how wide slipstream works furthest away from the kart.
         collect-time: How many seconds of sstream give  maximum benefit
         use-time: How long the benefit will last.
         add-power: Additional power due to sstreaming. 1 = +100%
         min-speed: Minimum speed necessary for slipstream to take effect.
         max-speed-increase: How much the speed of the kart might exceed
         its normal maximum speed.
         duration: How long the higher speed lasts after slipstream stopped
         working.
         fade-out-time: How long the slip stream speed increase will
         gradually be reduced.  -->
    <slipstream length="10" width="2" collect-time="2" use-time="5"
                add-power="3" min-speed="10"
                max-speed-increase="5" duration="1" fade-out-time="2"/>

    <!-- Kart-specific settings for the swatter:
         duration: how long can the swatter be active.
         distance: How close a kart or an item must be before it can be hit.
         squash-duration: How long a kart will remain squashed.
         squash-slowdown: percentage of max speed that a kart is
                 restricted to.  -->


Feel free to change any values and see if you can come up with better ones.

Note that the slipstream benefit is triggered the moment you leave the slipstream area. So I am not sure why people have the problem that they hit the kart in front, if I manage to stay close enough for long enough, I just start overtaking, the moment I leave the slipstream area, the kart speeds up.

Re getting in and out of slipstream: the time is increased/decreased when you enter/leave the area. So if you have selected (say) 1 second of slipstream time, but get too far away for 0.3 seconds, you will start at 0.7 if you enter the slipstream area again. That might explain why some people feel that the time for slipstream to become active varies.

Cheers,
Joerg

[bonifarz]

Personally I think nitro should be ditched entirely.

I was thinking that now and again as well I have to admit, just because it needs an additional key

I thought charlie was just sarcastic there, but I see the point about the number of keys. However, without the availability of nitro, I fear that skidding will lose 80% of its fun factor - in many situations, a skid without nitro is a wasted skid, and the same goes for zippers.

nitro is also one thing that sets STK apart from a certain other commercial game

Exactly this - it feels like one of the core features that define the games unique style.

[Funto]

I remember nitro removal had been already discussed. My opinion is that we should keep it, as it's a unique feature, it's fun, compatible with the rest of the boosts, already used in all tracks, adds a dimension of "choosing between nitro and gifts" to the game, adds a "resource management" dimension, adds variety to the tracks and is very easy to use and explain (tutorial).
The only drawback I see so far is introducing a new key, but that's part of its simplicity at usage.

[GunChleoc]

As a newbie, I found the Nitro key the first key worth learning. I did some races against time before I went on to do the full fights, and it would have been a lot less fun without the nitro.

If you have some nitro left, it also makes grabbing an anchor less frustrating.

[jackylman]

Couldn't nitro be made useless without too much effort using an Option? I mean, even if you didn't remove the meter or take the nitro off the track, just make it do nothing (except take the meter down as normal). It would be interesting to see how the game played without it now that skidding is working well. I personally love the nitrous, though.

As for the drafting, I don't care for the turbo boost, and agree that it's overkill alongside skidding and nitro bonuses. I would rather see the speed increased a bit more (or the whole thing removed altogether). The amount of speed you gain should depend on the width and distance behind your partner instead of being a binary condition.

I should note that neither item is a huge concern for me and I really like the latest release.
EDIT: I also wanted to point out that drafting is useful for Expert AI opponents to gang up on you, and leave you in the dust at the beginning of the race,

[Totoplus62]

Another solution is to make your kart slowly gain nitro while "drafting"

[E-Dragon]

Agreed.
Drafting is not worth to use in my opinion. It´s not eaxy to follow someone all the time and you don´t gain very much speed.
Abusing skidding and nitros is a more usefull way getting speed.

Another solution is to make your kart slowly gain nitro while "drafting"

Like this Idea, but it should not be that abusable. Maybe you can also take another driver away by drafting behind him.
This would be more real than getting nitro from nowhere and it would be more usefull.

[KRC1023]

Another solution is to make your kart slowly gain nitro while "drafting"

Wow! Now Here's an idea! Great Job! This sounds AWESOME!!!!
Someone NEEDS to implement this NOW!

I'm Not Kidding!

[Totoplus62]

Another solution is to make your kart slowly gain nitro while "drafting"

Wow! Now Here's an idea! Great Job! This sounds AWESOME!!!!
Someone NEEDS to implement this NOW!

I'm Not Kidding!

I think this is good solution

Like this Idea, but it should not be that abusable.

You have to gain nitro very slowly of course, you can see this system in other games such as Nfs for example; but this is new in a Mk-like game and nitro in Stk is really important

[hiker]

Another solution is to make your kart slowly gain nitro while "drafting"

My problem with that is that it might make drifting too easy. ATM track design can make drifting more or less attractive. If you can just 'store' the energy, you don't have to time it properly when to release.

We should give it a try though - but it won't be high on my priority list tbh - but a patch that allows a setting to switch between the two modes would be welcome.

Cheers,
Joerg

[Auria]

Another solution is to make your kart slowly gain nitro while "drafting"

My problem with that is that it might make drifting too easy. ATM track design can make drifting more or less attractive. If you can just 'store' the energy, you don't have to time it properly when to release.

We should give it a try though - but it won't be high on my priority list tbh - but a patch that allows a setting to switch between the two modes would be welcome.

Cheers,
Joerg

From reading this thread, I get the feeling that some people are referring to "slipstreaming" when they say "drafting". Gets confusing which is which. I suggest not using this word, we have "splistreaming" and we have "skidding". Using the proper term will make things easier to follow, folks!

I would agree to make *splipstreaming* give you a little nitro, though I'm quite unsure about skidding.