Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby eltomito » 19 Apr 2021, 22:59

I really love the new Evergreen Forest track but the normal path is much faster than the shortcut. It's a shame, because I really love the shortcut but if I want to win (against 8 AIs on supertux level), I can never take it. Could the normal path be made a bit longer, maybe?

Anyway, thanks for this great track!
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby KiyanTheBluePenguin » 21 Apr 2021, 12:51

I Never Take The Shortcut Because I Don't Know Where It Really Is.
Or I've Passed It And Didn't Think About It.
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby eltomito » 21 Apr 2021, 14:51

KiyanTheBluePenguin {l Wrote}:I Never Take The Shortcut Because I Don't Know Where It Really Is.
Or I've Passed It And Didn't Think About It.


If you wanna know, look at where some of the AI karts are going...
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby tempAnon093 » 22 Apr 2021, 00:37

I'm not sure if the creator uses the forums (or Discord either).
If they do, I'd like them to see this thread as well. https://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic ... 17&t=17804
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby FabianF » 22 Apr 2021, 16:29

Someone tried to tell him about forum already, not sure he saw - anyway I asked him in an online game about the shortcut Balance and he answered "The shortcut is slow because you need to take it precisely" ... Not sure that helps though. lol
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby eltomito » 22 Apr 2021, 16:50

tempAnon093 {l Wrote}:I'm not sure if the creator uses the forums (or Discord either).
If they do, I'd like them to see this thread as well. https://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic ... 17&t=17804

That's the thread about making bumpy roads less bumpy. But I like the bumpy road in this track. They make it fun and foresty.
FabianF {l Wrote}:Someone tried to tell him about forum already, not sure he saw - anyway I asked him in an online game about the shortcut Balance and he answered "The shortcut is slow because you need to take it precisely" ... Not sure that helps though. lol

Well, I am taking it fairly precisely and I still lose so much time that all the other karts overtake me during that single lap.
Thanks for asking the author, FabianF!

I'll try to time the difference in time-trial mode later. Has anyone tried that yet by any chance?
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby eltomito » 22 Apr 2021, 22:18

So, I did some time trials using only the main paths vs always using the shortcut and I managed to do shortcut laps that are as fast as the regular path. Then I played some more races with AIs and items and yes, you can use the shortcut and still be competitive, even though it's a lot harder than the regular path. And that's probably what a shortcut should be like: hard to take and about as fast as the regular path.

So, I must conclude that the shortcut balance is actually just fine on this track and I'm hereby dropping my original request :)

This is an insanely fast track with a lot of tricky turns and it's really challenging and fun. Great job, sridharkumar!
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby sridharkumar » 30 May 2021, 16:49

Thanks! If you want to know how to use shortcut and main path efficiently, here is the video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O64lA1 ... sp=sharing. I made it in 1 minute 27 seconds.
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby eltomito » 01 Jun 2021, 07:39

sridharkumar {l Wrote}:Thanks! If you want to know how to use shortcut and main path efficiently, here is the video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O64lA1 ... sp=sharing. I made it in 1 minute 27 seconds.

Would you mind sharing the replay so that I can race against it? :)
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby sridharkumar » 01 Jun 2021, 16:26

eltomito {l Wrote}:Would you mind sharing the replay so that I can race against it? :)


Here it is. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IpRT41 ... sp=sharing
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby eltomito » 02 Jun 2021, 19:38

sridharkumar {l Wrote}:
eltomito {l Wrote}:Would you mind sharing the replay so that I can race against it? :)


Here it is. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IpRT41 ... sp=sharing


Thanks!
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby Wuzzy » 05 Jun 2021, 23:01

The problem with "alternative paths" is they carry a risk of adding a dominant strategy to the game. If one path is clearly superior to the other then you basically have to take it. This is bad because the game only gives you an illusion of choice. Games should avoid dominant strategies.

If the track you talk about is really that imbalanced as you say, then I agree, it's a problem.
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Re: Evergreen Forest shortcut balance

Postby eltomito » 06 Jun 2021, 09:25

Wuzzy {l Wrote}:If the track you talk about is really that imbalanced as you say, then I agree, it's a problem.


No, maybe it isn't obvious from the above discussion but it only seemed imbalanced to me because I wasn't every good at it. Now I think it's actually balanced really well. Perhaps the new big nitro in the shortcut also helped.
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