arbitrary STK banishment subject

Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby oops66 » 29 Nov 2020, 18:59

McRavenINDo {l Wrote}:Take this sample carefully...


Désolé, mais votre anglais n'est pas clair, mon traducteur en ligne traduit la plupart de vos phrases en menaces ... merci de reformuler de façon explicite, ou d'écrire en français...
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby eltomito » 29 Nov 2020, 20:49

I've been following this discussion closely and by now, it really seems clear that oops66 = nascartux.
The clues that lead me to believe so are:
1) I've met nascartux online many times and he's perfectly capable of speaking for himself and has no reason to have his dad deal with STK-realted stuff for him other than to get a kick out of trolling everyone with...
2) ...a fake account which is something he loves to use.
3) He pretty much blew his cover when he called all the adults playing STK childish. If a kid's dad actually wanted to achieve anything through a discussion, they wouldn't start insulting the other party for no reason. But who would definitely do that? Yes, you guessed the answer: nascartux.
So, hey, nascartux = oops66! I wish you a warm BOOGITY BOOGITY!
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby kimden » 30 Nov 2020, 03:24

eltomito {l Wrote}:Yes, you guessed the answer: nascartux.


It is rather obvious to claim to be "not nascartux" on this forum because insulting from "nascartux" account definitely doesn't lead to unban. But well, actually insulting from any account doesn't lead to unban lol
One day, I'll put enough checklines on all your tracks.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby kimden » 30 Nov 2020, 04:14

So, it seems like neither nascartux nor someone who says to be his father (although it seems anyone could fake those posts) are going to behave normally.

What we know for sure is:
1. nascartux cheated ranking system since August 2019, using alternative accounts nascartux2 and Daytona500 (and publicly admitting in English that Daytona500 is his account). nascartux knew perfectly what they are doing: one cannot have races against himself only, quitting from one account and gaining points to another account, publicly expressing his joy from being 3rd in rankings because of that only, and not knowing this is cheating. Even if nascartux suddenly didn't feel it is against the competition, they were told multiple times by Benau to not do that, after refusal, nascartux got a ranking reset and probably at some point being unable to attend ranked servers.

2. nascartux got a ranking reset after joining a ranked server with Daytona500, when a new ranking system was introduced. As nascartux was definitely told by Benau to not do that in the past (though I don't know specific things that were told), his ranking was reset.

3. A few days ago, nascartux joined a ranked server with Daytona500 again and raced for some time. So his ranking was reset again.

4. People in this thread say that they told nascartux to not race with alts in French even. This clears any doubt about "nascartux not knowing those things are forbidden": nascartux was told by devs who are actually not obliged to speak in French, and the community members who speak French. If nascartux or anyone else wanted a clarification about warnings issued, there is a public IRC link to ask, or at least this forum, they existed like forever.

5. A couple of things not related to this ban:

A) nascartux is insulting anyone whom they don't like (just as oops66 whoever it is, if oops66 is not fake then his behaviour is even more frustrating). I don't think i should post examples here lol
B) nascartux is escaping from the ranked races on 'less liked' tracks, that is, all tracks except 5 (lol). This is formally not illegal, but gives a common introduction about nascartux' sporting principles
C) Ah and having children doesn't necessarily make you a better or wiser person, nor does it make your children free of any rules, nor it allows you to insult people based on "having children or not" criteria

Having all that said, I don't see a reason to accept this behaviour, in particular, on my servers (except maybe some special cases). I also don't think further discussion with oops66 is useful, just because oops66 is insulting just like nascartux and is saying nothing new, only demanding unban (which already happened on all servers except ranked ones I assume?) Maybe "another chance" is ok but I personally don't think this will change anything (not for me to decide though).

See you all in a better thread lol
One day, I'll put enough checklines on all your tracks.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby re342 » 30 Nov 2020, 18:15

Hi,

I was referee for another game for several years. My experience is that in such cases temporary suspensions are more effective than permanent suspensions. It is also nicer for both parties. Permanent suspensions tend to lead to frustration and don't necessarily cause people to change their behaviour. Temporary suspensions give people the chance to change and motivate them to improve their behaviour.

Children in particular have a good chance of changing their behaviour after they have been banned for a certain period of time. Many children do not cheat out of bad faith. They are very ambitious, overestimate themselves and can hardly accept unfortunate losses. For some, it is a longer learning process.

I already played several online matches against nascartux and remember him as a very strong and nice member. Never seen him insulting.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby oops66 » 01 Dec 2020, 13:30

... J'ai lu vite fait les propos puérils des uns et des autres ... entre ceux qui manquent cruellement de perspicacités, ceux qui sont menaçants, ceux qui sont manichéens et simplistes , ceux qui sont dans le déni et autres enfantillages ... je vous laisse entre bébés, avec vos mentalités de zygotes. Bref peu sont matures ici (sauf re342 et fabianF).

Pour être constructif, le managment devrait faire des stages ou formations pour tenter de rendre plus mature les esprits et postures dans l'équipe STK.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby UnDev » 05 Dec 2020, 14:15

lol u want even more points????
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby oops66 » 05 Dec 2020, 23:36

UnDev {l Wrote}:lol u want even more points????

???
Je crois que tu n'as pas bien compris le sujet, vu ton hors sujet.

Translate: I think you did not understand the subject well, given your off topic.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby wax » 06 Dec 2020, 10:39

*Troll against troll, let them fight*
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby oops66 » 06 Dec 2020, 15:07

wax {l Wrote}:*Troll against troll, let them fight*

Right, the prejudice of trolling is the beginning of censorship (a Godwin point)
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby Wuzzy » 09 Dec 2020, 14:24

Creating multiple accounts to race against yourself for free points? Hahaha! Hilarious! But soooooo wrong! It's breaking the game. You could theoretically generate infinite points with that. That's a little OP. ;) The point of STK is to be the fastest racer, and not be the one with the most accounts. :D
Yeah, this is a dick move and shouldn't be possible/allowed.

Dumb question: Is there even a written rule against this? Because I can't see any rules for online play. This should be changed.

Anyway, it shows the system can be exploited rather easily. That's a problem.
This makes me concerned: What if there is another player who abuses the system as well, but in a way that is much harder to detect? What if there is a really sophisticated but also more careful cheater who tries to use multiple fake identities and proxies for plausible deniability? On the other hand, that scenario sounds unlikely. But not impossible. The fact that one player apparently managed to fly under the radar for MONTHS is concerning. Bans alone might not solve this.

Anyway, back to topic. I suggest to only temp-ban from ranked matches and not from online play altogether (for now). If that is even possibible. Hax were not involved, as far I know.

Why? Because:
I was referee for another game for several years. My experience is that in such cases temporary suspensions are more effective than permanent suspensions. It is also nicer for both parties. Permanent suspensions tend to lead to frustration and don't necessarily cause people to change their behaviour. Temporary suspensions give people the chance to change and motivate them to improve their behaviour.
Bitcoin contributions welcome: 17fsUywHxeMHKG41UFfu34F1rAxZcrVoqH :-)
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby oops66 » 09 Dec 2020, 23:01

@wuzzy

... Votre remarque pourrait être pertinente si elle s'appuyait sur des faits récurrents. Mais ce n'est nullement le cas, mon fils a utilisé fût un temps le compte de son copain une fois ou deux en duo il y a plus d'un an.
De plus, ça ne règle nullement votre problématique, car certains utilisent malicieusement des VPNs de façon récurrente, sans pour autant être détectés par vos modérateurs, de façon sournoise et détournée trichent aussi (ce qui n'est pas franc, surtout pour des adultes).

Bref, un enfant est un enfant ... et peu d'entre vous savez ce que ça veut dire, ni ce que ça implique. Votre manichéisme est des plus stupide, mon enfant ne triche plus depuis longtemps et n'utilise pas de VPN.
Bref vos décisions sont belles et bien arbitraires , et au fil des posts, vous me confirmez sans arrêt et d'avantage cette posture enfantine (alors que tout ça n'est qu'un simple jeu, un simple jeu virtuel.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby Alayan » 09 Dec 2020, 23:20

oops66 {l Wrote}:De plus, ça ne règle nullement votre problématique, car certains utilisent malicieusement des VPNs de façon récurrente, sans pour autant être détectés par vos modérateurs, de façon sournoise et détournée trichent aussi (ce qui n'est pas franc, surtout pour des adultes).


Si vous disposez de preuves de ces allégations, pourquoi ne pas les partager ? Si vous n'avez pas de preuves, de quel droit faites vous ces allégations ?
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby oops66 » 09 Dec 2020, 23:24

Alayan {l Wrote}:
Si vous disposez de preuves de ces allégations, pourquoi ne pas les partager ? Si vous n'avez pas de preuves, de quel droit faites vous ces allégations ?


... Ce n'est pas moi qui joue ... donc ce n'est que par procuration que j'ai ces informations (les latences de pings changent de façon drastiques et drapeaux des pays aussi, pour certains joueurs manifestement). Et je ne vais pas faire l'enquête à votre place. Comme déjà dit, pour moi ce n'est qu'un jeu.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby kimden » 09 Dec 2020, 23:30

The fact that one player apparently managed to fly under the radar for MONTHS is concerning


Happily, it was noticed immediately. Another thing is that after warnings and sanctions, it repeated again.
I agree, if someone behaves in a more complicated way to cheat, it can be hard to detect it if everything is done perfectly. But for now, even VPN cheaters were revealed (not that they behaved in a never-exposable way though, rather, the opposite :)) After all, most top players play with each other, so it helps to find suspicious accounts. And the new ranking is claimed to be probably better against alternative accounts.

I suggest to only temp-ban from ranked matches and not from online play altogether (for now). If that is even possible


IIRC exactly this is done now (though a previous account was reset).
One day, I'll put enough checklines on all your tracks.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby FabianF » 10 Dec 2020, 07:38

oops66: You wrote your son hasn't used any alternate accounts for quite some time and only twice in his whole life (unless my translator is doing weird things and this is actually wrong :-)).
Unfortunately, this is not true. He used a second account called "Daytona500" just a few weeks ago; and several months ago he always used this second account for races against top players to avoid losing points and that way getting a higher rank.

Anyone is free to have alternate accounts on public casual servers, but on ranked servers they are forbidden especially if they are used for unfair play.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby oops66 » 10 Dec 2020, 13:09

FabianF: No, not in the same time, he said me.
(and he is frank and not sneaky)

PS: You can check again beter if you want.
It becomes comical your stubborn search for recurring cheating

If he hadn't been in the top 10, he wouldn't have been arbitrary banned, in fact it's your little team of adult players who only think about the ranking
Last edited by oops66 on 10 Dec 2020, 13:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby FabianF » 10 Dec 2020, 13:20

You are free to write your messages in French, better understandable. :-)

By "not in the same time" you probably mean he didn't use two accounts at the same time at the same server (= cheating ranking points)? Indeed he hasn't done this for a few months, but using alternate accounts on Ranked server is not allowed, in any context, with any reason. And he did that, a few weeks ago.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby oops66 » 10 Dec 2020, 13:28

So In French / En Français:
FabianF: Non, il n'a pas joué en même temps, avec ces deux comptes récement, m'a-t-il dit.
(et il est franc et pas sournois)

PS: Vous pouvez vérifier de nouveau si vous le souhaitez, je suis sûr de lui.
Cela devient comique votre recherche obstinée de tricherie récurrente de sa part.

S''il n'avait pas été dans le top 10, il n'aurait pas été banni arbitrairement, en fait c'est votre petite équipe de joueurs adultes qui ne pense qu'au classement et aux places. (ce qui est pathétique pour des adultes soit disant matures)
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby wax » 10 Dec 2020, 14:28

On peut en douter puisque il est passé à la seconde place en quelques minutes ce qui est impossible.

Les joueurs qui trichent sont repérés quelque soit leur classement et Nascartux n'est pas le premier.
Aussi ce n'est pas parce que vous partagez un opinion différent de celui des développeurs (très majoritairement suivi par la communauté) qu'il faut douter de leur maturité.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby oops66 » 10 Dec 2020, 14:32

wax {l Wrote}:On peut en douter puisque il est passé à la seconde place en quelques minutes ce qui est impossible.

.


Tu es en pleine fabulation là (mauvaise foi) ... la seule certitude est celle là (démontrée au fil des posts):

S''il n'avait pas été dans le top 10, il n'aurait pas été banni arbitrairement, en fait c'est votre petite équipe de joueurs adultes qui ne pense qu'au classement et aux places. (ce qui est pathétique pour des adultes soit disant matures)
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby wax » 10 Dec 2020, 14:53

Oui c'est une certitude qu'il a triché. À vous d'apporter des arguments sur sa seconde place, je pense qu'on va rire.
Sinon le copier-coller marche bien? :P
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby oops66 » 10 Dec 2020, 14:57

wax {l Wrote}:Oui c'est une certitude qu'il a triché. À vous d'apporter des arguments sur sa seconde place, je pense qu'on va rire.
Sinon le copier-coller marche bien? :P


Tu es vraiment pathétique wax, honte à toi ... "a triché" c'est du passé (lointain en plus, et non récent - et pour un enfant )

Toi tu es de mauvaise foi et pathétique, et au présent (et tu es adulte en plus)
Franchement tu es un cas, je me demande si tu es capable de bien discerner les choses.
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Re: arbitrary STK banishment subject

Postby XGhost » 11 Dec 2020, 23:39

For the first time in STK history, I request a lock on this thread. This is really not the space (and never should be) where we throw insults at each other nor let ourselves sink to a level similar of kindergarten as far as discussion competence is concerned. Why won't y'all let this thread just die a natural death?

There's really nothing to discuss anymore.

@oops66/nascartux If you like it or not, the account is banned. You have contacted the developers and community, criticizing the judgement and the reason for the banishment, that's all you really can do and that's fine. You got your answer now and it seems justified (except for you obviously). You can be glad that the main devs are that transparent in their actions. While you may not like the outcome or reason given to you for the banishment, they seem plausible and rightful even from a perspective of an outsider. Composing pseudo-superior posts and carrying on of discussions trying to make you look better does not help. Not even that, it makes your already bad reputation worse. So, if you're mad about the banishment, good. If you now don't like the STK team and community or the game anymore, go play something else.

@wax (and some others) I do appreciate your good intention, but you should've already realized that this discussion here is a lost case. There is absolutely no point in trying to convince oops66/nascartux or make him understand the reasons for the banishment. If you lead a discussion with a troll, you always lose, don't feed them.

@everyone I suggest to stop posting here and let oops66/nascartux scream into the void. You can bet he will post again, maybe even directly to myself, keep provoking and insulting and trying to keep his nonsense-discussion going. Let it be.

If we want to discuss, if it would be better to be more clear with rules and guidelines to online play, maybe even state them somewhere on STKs website -> let's do this in another thread in order to shift the focus.
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