Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby Alayan » 09 Nov 2019, 17:41

The next release will remain compatible with 1.0, and will not include changes to the powerup set.

But there is no such constraint for 2.0, so we can get both balance changes to existing powerups, and new powerups.

The main balance change I'm thinking about for existing powerups is nerfing the swatter by reducing its total duration and limiting the "rapid squash" that can remove a bubble gum and then squash very quickly. The basket ball and parachutes could probably take further balancing.

But we also need new powerups. There are some niches to fill :
- A speed+defense compound powerup for players in bad positions, that gives less speed than 3 zippers in the hands of a good player, but somewhat more than a single zipper with less crashing chances in the hands of a noob.
- A weak (speed boost ?) powerup to reduce somewhat the frequency of mutual destruction in the middle of the "pack"
- Others ?

Here are general considerations for each powerup idea :
- The suggested powerup should fit the theme of the game and the existing set of powerup.
- Does it complement well existing mechanics ? If it interacts in an interesting (and non random) way with other existing mechanics, it's a nice bonus.
- How does it impact balance ?
- Does it take some skill to use to its fullest extent, or to defend against ?

There has been many suggestions over the years, but until now it has mostly been vague and not focused on actually getting the powerup in the game.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby tempAnon093 » 09 Nov 2019, 23:38

I say this half jokingly, but a h4ck0r item (a pair of sunglasses? a virus? a mechanical keyboard? maybe a '>' glyph) that make you quickly 'glitch' forward along the driveline about 10 metres in an invulnerable state. That would provide temporary defense and limited boost.

possible stylistic reference: Penelope racing in Wreck-It Ralph
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby AgentCrypto » 14 Nov 2019, 10:07

Well you could also use special abilities like in beach buggy racing.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby mirandazellnik » 15 Nov 2019, 01:38

What about some kind of item similar to the bullet in Mario Kart Wii where it takes away control from the player and instead drives them at a high speed for a short distance on the track? It allows people to escape the middle of the pack, and could be balanced to for example bring them 10m ahead of the person in front of them, or some other way of ensuring it's not overpowered
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby tempAnon093 » 15 Nov 2019, 03:32

mirandazellnik {l Wrote}:What about some kind of item similar to the bullet in Mario Kart Wii where it takes away control from the player and instead drives them at a high speed for a short distance on the track? It allows people to escape the middle of the pack, and could be balanced to for example bring them 10m ahead of the person in front of them, or some other way of ensuring it's not overpowered


This has been proposed before, so I would recommend reading https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-code/issues/3888 to see advantages and issues with the bullet approach. It seems that there is some community support for implementing a very limited version of a bullet-type add-on.

Alayan seems to have a strong dislike of warp-style powerups so I guess my own proposal would be an instant 'no', despite my justificaitons.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby Anon » 10 Jan 2020, 10:56

mirandazellnik {l Wrote}:What about some kind of item similar to the bullet in Mario Kart Wii where it takes away control from the player and instead drives them at a high speed for a short distance on the track? It allows people to escape the middle of the pack, and could be balanced to for example bring them 10m ahead of the person in front of them, or some other way of ensuring it's not overpowered


This could be an opportunity to bring back the rockets and homing rockets from the earlier versions of STK.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby Anon » 10 Jan 2020, 12:12

tempAnon093 {l Wrote}:This has been proposed before, so I would recommend reading https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-code/issues/3888 to see advantages and issues with the bullet approach. It seems that there is some community support for implementing a very limited version of a bullet-type add-on.

Alayan seems to have a strong dislike of warp-style powerups so I guess my own proposal would be an instant 'no', despite my justificaitons.


If he's really so fixated on keeping "an OP powerup" from letting "newbie-tiers players [...] get feel good feedback [with] zero skill", then he could make it possible to shoot down the bullet bill or something so that it can still be stopped with sufficient skill.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby Anon » 10 Jan 2020, 12:15

....

On another note, the tone of that Github issue response, combined with the core team leaving, combined with some of the other things I've seen here over the past few years, does raise some red flags for me as to the general direction of this project as a whole.

Why is the direction of the game determined by one guy saying "big no-no" while essentially ignoring all the community members who actually raised points and gave suggestions on what could work?

And why is it apparently seen as a bad thing for "newbies to get some feel-good feedback"? Is the goal here to make a fun game that people can enjoy and feel good from— or is it to make a platform for a few people to show off their skills and prove their superiority over the "newbies" with "zero skill"?

Saying "No [X] will happen as long as I'm [in charge]" is basically saying "No amount of consensus and discourse, no matter how many people are involved, is more important than my own personal opinion".

Additionally, I'm not aware of any surveys that have been done on this, but I strongly suspect that the playerbase for STK is not primarily comprised of speedrunners and hardcore gamers— those are more likely playing VDrift or GRID or whatever— and the players here seem to be more along the lines of open-source software enthusiasts and small children who also happen to like playing casual games for fun.

Such a market needs fun gameplay (or "feel-good feedback", as it may be called) and community engagement, but I'm not sure it needs someone so aggressively "taking care of the balance".


To the current developers, I guess:

I apparently haven't been around here for quite as long as you have, nor have I been nearly as active in recent years. But I was here early enough to remember when you first started taking a bigger role in the game's development, so I don't think I'm just talking out of my rear here. And I've occasionally contributed some assets to the game as well before, so I also speak from a perspective of not wanting a project that I've been kind of involved in to end up failing.

STK is, like most FOSS endeavours, a community project. It lives and it will die based off of community engagement.

If you allowed basically the entire core dev team to leave over stylistic differences, then that raises big questions about where your priorities lie. Whatever freedom and control you gained, I hope it was worth losing the people who wrote most of the code and all of the original media tools in the first place.

And if you design the game to cater only to the needs of a very specific type of player while ignoring good-faith comments and input from the community at large (and implicitly insulting their skill, no less), then I can find that frankly more than a little bit forboding for the future of the player base and the community.

Fun should always trump "balance", because that's what a video game like STK is supposed to be to most people, and consensus should generally trump authority, because that's the only way for a large endeavour to succeed as a community project in the long term.

Please do not take this the wrong way. I've contributed assets to STK in the past too, and I do not want to see it stop growing. But the path it was on before was one that had worked for years— and if it's now switched to a new approach and style that involves alienating core developers and stonewalling community discourse, then I'm not sure where it will end up.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby manwhoisonfourms » 10 Jan 2020, 18:43

An add-on section for powerups would be cool! Or as a suggestion for a powerup, a bomb that latches on to other players. Once the bomb is on you, you have 3 seconds to pass it to someone else. After it's been passed 5 times, it makes a massive explosive
And here are a lot of other suggestions
The Old Rockets From Old STK
Self Destruct: Once used, your character blows up and takes 3 seconds to get back on track
Super Zipper: It's a regular zipper, but it is WAAAAY more powerful
Reverser: Everyone who is in front of you, their controls will get reversed
Zapper: Zaps anyone infront of you
Spike Strip: Places a spike strip similar to the one in Need For Speed Hot Pursuit
Mega Potion: Makes the player bigger and have the ability to squish others
Sabatoge: Slows down every kart infront of you for 3 seconds
Grapple: Grapples anyone infront of you. Similar to the grapple hook from Lego racers
Super Penguin: A penguin gets shot out of your car and will bounce off of walls
Ice Pillars: Creates 3 ice pillars around the kart that will launch anyone around you in the air.
Steeler: Steals a random persons item (THEY MUST HAVE AN ITEM FOR THIS TO WORK)
Big Fist: Smacks anyone infront of you
Hammer: A hammer will swing around your kart and hit anyone near you
Lighting shield: It's like bubblegum except anyone who touches you gets SHOCKED!
Mine: Drops a mine and whoever drives over it will get blown up. Does splash damage
That's all I have! I'll edit if I have anymore ideas!
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby tempAnon093 » 11 Jan 2020, 00:58

manwhoisonfourms {l Wrote}:An add-on section for powerups would be cool!

It would be cool, but I'm not sure how well it would work. It certainly wouldn't be effective online (what if I haven't downloaded a powerup and the server has? I already struggle to find 3+ player lobbies where everyone has add-on tracks!). Offline add-ons could work fine, but honestly I think it might be too much effort for devs to focus on right now.

You have some nice suggestions! I notice that a few of them sound like ones that already exist.
* Sabotage vs. Parachute
* Hammer/Mega Potion vs. Swatter
* Grapple vs. Plunger

I think Ice Pillars would be a nice idea, it's not obvious like a Swatter, so it can be used if someone overtakes too closely. It sounds feasible to program and can use the existing kart tumble animation.
Reverser sounds fun, original (as far as I know) and not too hard to implement. It can be mitigated through skilled driving so I think it's perfectly reasonable.
At first I though the bomb powerup was just the bomb on banana peels, but it does actually sound like a good idea (although I would change the time to 5 seconds). A player that gets hit by one would even try to slow down and explode next to the player who gave it to them! ;)

Anon {l Wrote}:If he's really so fixated on keeping "an OP powerup" from letting "newbie-tiers players [...] get feel good feedback [with] zero skill"

Anon {l Wrote}:[other post]

I agree with all of this.

It is worth emphasising that:
1) Newbie-tiers players should be able to easily enjoy the game, and this doesn't have to be at the expense of experienced players. This is how you gain new players.
2) The 'feel good' feedback is not constant or anything, so it's not coddling new players.
STK race mode is not entirely a skill-based mode. Less skilled players should be given advantage, otherwise you get matches where less-skilled players may be alone the whole match, except for the few seconds while they are getting lapped. That is not fun. A game like STK should be fun, at least in race mode.

I think a reasonable compromise is disabling certain powerups in Ranked modes. This means that the more serious racers won't be harassed by basketballs, parachutes and previously-rejected powerups, while less experienced racers are more able to keep up with the action.

I do think there is a potential for bias when:
* one person has the entire say on balance [!]
* that one person is a far more experienced racer than most of the users and implied audience
That is not to say that he hasn't done very useful balancing work; he has. That work is important to the game and made matches more enjoyable. However, I do think more effort need to happen to make sure the game's direction benefits the community and not only sub-communities.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby DoggoOfSpeed » 11 Jan 2020, 20:33

I always hoped for something like a cloud power-up. It could allow you to fly above other players and things like bowling balls. It could be used for shortcuts too, though I guess it would be quite hard to implement in a way that won't break the game's balance... But implemented well, it would add a power-up that is easy to learn, but hard to master.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby QwertyChouskie » 11 Jan 2020, 22:12

I think a good solution might be similar to the solution for the new GUI style (ref https://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7974): Let the user pick. There's a pretty good precedent for this: In MK Wii at least, you can select between Strategic, Balanced, and Aggressive.

Implementation should be quite doable, as powerup probabilities are already defined via powerup.xml. Basically, when the track is selected, along with having lap and AI kart number selectors, have a "Item Mode" selector. (This also opens up the ability for some interesting modes, e.g. one similar to MK8's Bob-omb Blast.) On a code level, STK would load a different version of powerup.xml when a different mode is selected, which allows not only changing probabilities, outright enabling/disabling certain powerups in certain modes. E.g. if a more aggressive/unfair catch-up mechanic were added into the game (e.g. something like a Bullet Bill), it could be disabled in modes like Strategic. Also, some weapon's properties are even loaded from powerup.xml, so, going back to the Bullet Bill-like example, it could be disabled in Strategic mode, only get you behind the next kart in Balanced mode, and be more OP in Aggressive mode.

It also solves the online rankings problem, as Ranked servers would just be set to always be in Strategic mode.

It is virtually impossible to have everyone agree on a one-size-fits-all item balance, but by having 2-3 defined modes, we should be able to provide a great experience for anyone, from brand-new players to veteran racers.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby Andet » 12 Jan 2020, 15:55

I would be a fan of that
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby tempAnon093 » 15 Jan 2020, 00:47

DoggoOfSpeed {l Wrote}:I always hoped for something like a cloud power-up. It could allow you to fly above other players and things like bowling balls. It could be used for shortcuts too, though I guess it would be quite hard to implement in a way that won't break the game's balance... But implemented well, it would add a power-up that is easy to learn, but hard to master.

I kinda like that idea! It's a purely defensive powerup that avoids powerup attacks and possibly even road hazards on some maps. I do see a potential to abuse shortcuts by flying over barriers...

QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}:I think a good solution might be similar to the solution for the new GUI style (ref https://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7974): Let the user pick. There's a pretty good precedent for this: In MK Wii at least, you can select between Strategic, Balanced, and Aggressive. [snip]

I am also a fan of this idea. Having a few predetermined modes would be great (they could even just be a part of Novice, Intermediate, Expert, SuperTux difficulty levels, if there is a need to simplify the user interface).
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby Diogenes v. S. » 16 Feb 2020, 17:03

Hello everybody,

First of all, I would like to say very clearly that I think it's great how many thoughts STK developers make about the general balance of the game.
Such considerations are also necessary, especially since concepts turn out to be correct or incorrect only in practice.
And it is precisely in this context that I would like to introduce a few considerations, especially since only constructive considerations can be beneficial.

So I would like to question the following proportionality to the properties of the lightweight and heavy karts, because in practice these do not prove to be balanced.
For example, the weakest engines have been assigned to the heaviest karts.
The argument for this is that heavy-weight karts to compensate for the weak engine are the fastest at top speed.
This argument sounds plausible at first, but this relationship proves to be problematic in practice because heavy karts are very often stopped in races and therefore have to accelerate again just as often.
This means that if a heavy kart is hit 30 times by a bowling ball, or is stopped in some other way, it is disadvantaged 30 times in its renewed acceleration.
Conversely, this means that lightweight karts with 30 hits enjoy 30 times the advantage of the fastest acceleration.
Therefore, the concept of a weak engine seems to me to be too short, especially since the argument is only, that the disadvantageous start and a higher top speed are crucial.
In fact, due to the high hit rates, heavy karts have little or no chance of being able to reach the top speed.
This problem could be solved by all karts accelerating at the same speed.
All other advantages, as well as disadvantages to heavy karts, can remain unchanged in their general characteristics, so that they continue to have the highest nitro consumption (disadvantage 1) and are the most cumbersome in terms of steering behavior (disadvantage 2).

Summary of the kart settings:
Disadvantages of the heavyweight karts:
- highest energy consumption for nitro, zipper, plunger etc. (heavy vehicles consume more energy, than lightweight vehicles).
- all other conditions can remain unchanged.
Advantage: Reaches the highest top speed.

Disadvantages of lightweight karts:
- These are easier to push off the road
- achieve the lowest final speed.
Advantages: lowest energy consumption for nitro, zipper, plunger etc. (lightweight vehicles consume less energy than heavy vehicles).
- all other conditions to lightweight karts, can also remain unchanged.

And Middle-weight karts can unchanged specify the mean value for heavy and light-weight karts.

In this sence, D.
The best razor in the universe is Ockham's razor. ;-)
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby eltomito » 16 Feb 2020, 20:40

Diogenes, my practical experience is very different.
With the current kart types (light, middle, heavy) what matters the most in online races is player skill.
Some players always stick to heavy or light karts, yet they still manage to win races against very skilled players
In other kinds of karts.
On the other hand, it does help to drive a heavy kart on the Volcano track, or whatever it's called, the Hacienda and other tracks with not do many bends.
So, Zi'd argue tgat the current setup is pretty balanced as your results mostly depend on your skill and the choice of the kart for the right track.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby Diogenes v. S. » 17 Feb 2020, 02:35

Hi eltomito, :-)

I'm not a speedrunner, but also no longer a slow driver. My considerations about game balance are not limited to routes with long curves and long straights. It is important to me that all karts have the same chances of winning on all tracks.
But, so is it not.
It is a fact that the heavy kart to much and to often is slowed down - in whatever way - the many loss of time and poor acceleration are too extreme.
It would also be fine if the difference in maximum speeds between middle-weight and heavy-weight karts were halved. This could, however, prevent or compensate for the accumulating effect at lost times.
In addition, it is also unfair that lightweight karts after the start of the race can take on first places and enjoy a free choice of items - and this advantage has more impact the less items are placed on the track or available for selection stand.
The argument about slower drivers is also incomprehensible to me. Because; must then to first every player a speed runner, to can make racing online fun?
I myself have seen enough times that worse drivers lose all fun in online races, precisely because the 10 to 20 best of the best don't give any newcomer a chance and they because of that don't come back again.
And that's exactly again and again why I always recommend that the ranking servers should be advertised with the titel "Speedrunning", so that newcomers can immediately see, what they at first shouldn't be getting into.
I would also like to see, if the best of the best compared with of newbies are more considerate on unrated servers rather than taking any fun to give newbies no a chance.

But as already explained, with my recommendations I would like to encourage further considerations in order to balance the playing conditions in the best possible way.

I would also not speak if the relevant considerations and adjustments were not sought.
Alayan has proposed or announced very good changes - whereby I was most pleased with the change to the fly swatter.
So overall I think that STK is on the right track.
Nevertheless, nobody should underestimate the danger of how quickly a project can lose it attractiveness - and I have often seen how annoyed a lot of newcomers turned away from the STK game (zero chance = uninteresting).

In this sense ... D.
The best razor in the universe is Ockham's razor. ;-)
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby LenAlyssa » 17 Feb 2020, 11:33

Hi everyone,

I have a speed defence PowerUp to propose.
My team and I worked on something new, inspired on the Star in MarioKart. For now, this new item is like the fusion of the "Zipper/Nitro" with less speed but last longer and the "bubbleGum" shield. However, we've created all the dependencies that are needed for this new item. Now the problem is the assets precisely the *.spm that we can't change or add to make the new item aspect looks different.

What do you think we should do ?

And what's your opinion about this new item ?

Best regards!
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby s3boun3t » 17 Feb 2020, 11:56

glad to see you're going to nerf the swaffer.

personally I find that heavy karts are still too advantageous compared to light.
online, we often only take the heavy ones, when we know how to play, light karts have no advantages

I also find that the cake should be removed, it is a very frustrating weapon and hard to dodge
we can take on several in a row
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby tempAnon093 » 18 Feb 2020, 23:23

Hi Diogenes,

I am not fully convinced that heavyweight karts should be made more powerful or less heavy.
Firstly, there are more game modes than just race mode. Many tracks have world records set using heavyweight karts, so it is clear that they are not underpowered for Time Trial mode. I would also be interested to see if they have a mass advantage in Soccer mode...
Secondly, as eltomito mentioned, different karts race better on different tracks. Also, the number of karts playing and skill levels of players will determine how often you get hit. It probably won't happen as much in games with only two other players, so a medium or heavy kart would be able to use their top speed advantage.

Diogenes v. S. {l Wrote}:It is important to me that all karts have the same chances of winning on all tracks.

Then there is no purpose to having light/medium/heavy characteristics, right? (and removing them may be the answer, but I don't think that would be as fun!)

Maybe it should be emphasized (in-game) that light karts are the easiest to drive for new players. I can see how picking a heavy kart arbitrarily would give a player a hard time.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby tempAnon093 » 18 Feb 2020, 23:33

LenAlyssa {l Wrote}:And what's your opinion about this new item ?


Interesting! What would this item look like?

It's important to note that SuperTuxKart is not a clone game and so we do not try to implement things only because they exist in Mario Kart or a similar game, so don't just make it look and act like the Mario star ;) Feel free to be more creative with it.

Another potential idea for a powerup item: something that shoots two short rays out at once (30 degrees left and 30 degrees right). It would probably be an item for a player need the middle or rear.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby kimden » 19 Feb 2020, 02:30

The idea with rays is very cool IMO.

Though, I'm not convinced that any new item is needed. (Yeah, you may say now that I'm satisfied with everything because now I'm somewhere on top.) Making swatters a bit weaker and cakes a bit less precise would already solve some problems. But shooting rays is a nice try to change my mind :-)

About kart weights, is there something really unbalanced? In online racing, for each kart type there are very fast players who use mostly one kart of this type (yes, you can win races with lightweights). Maybe it could be shifted a bit because heavy karts are generally more efficient than light karts; but is there a need in that provided that heavies are harder controllable?
Also, now each karts category has own places to use it: soccer /battle need light karts, speedruns need heavies (mostly), online races need mediums (but this is actually a matter of taste).

tempAnon093 {l Wrote}:I do think there is a potential for bias when:
* one person has the entire say on balance [!]
* that one person is a far more experienced racer than most of the users and implied audience

Well, I agree that one person is not enough and there could be a bit more discussion, but why do you think an experienced player is something very biased? Would an unexperienced player be less biased/more useful? From my point of view, an experienced online player sees many different players on servers and can know what they say/what they are not satisfied with.

Anon {l Wrote}:And if you design the game to cater only to the needs of a very specific type of player

Can you please say what exactly serves the needs of "a very specific type of players"? Also I find pretty aggressive a part of your text where you emotionally describe in several paragraphs how the game instantly becomes "not fun" as soon as a developer has his own opinion.
One day, I'll put enough checklines on all your tracks.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby Diogenes v. S. » 19 Feb 2020, 12:42

Hello everyone, and hello Kimden, ;-)

well, many STK friends and STK developers are constantly looking for well balanced game conditions. And a final answer to this cannot be found in principle. Because there is not a single project that cannot be "somehow" developed further.
And who knows; maybe one day our children and children's children will even play STK on a holodeck - as shown in Star Trek or something. :-D
But even then, games and game conditions will never be perfect, especially since the technical term for permanent change is simply "evolution".
So we can initially only gain our experience and test and evaluate proposed changes.

And that's exactly what I've been doing the last few days by changing the settings of the heavy karts a bit and testing them in numerous offline races with 10 and then 19 AI's per race (and of course in every race mode).
So in concrete terms I increased the engine power a little (power = "* 1.2"), but reduced the maximum speed a bit (max-speed = "* 1.01").
I have left all other settings unchanged.
In practice, the changes had the following effects:
- Heavy karts can now make up for lost times much better, even under heavy fire, as well as fight their way through the number of karts in front.
Due to the bad acceleration times, this was hardly possible at all before.
The reduced top speed does not make it possible to beat previous best times if you play without accompanying players, or AI's, but up to 30% of all races can now be won with any number of passengers and your own good driving skills - and all of this, in everyone Race mode and on all tracks.
Note: All of these effects relate to the "SuperTux" level.
In addition, I have undo the changed settings so that I can continue play and testing under all the originaly specified conditions.

In this sense, thanks and greetings to all STK friends, :-)
The best razor in the universe is Ockham's razor. ;-)
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby tempAnon093 » 19 Feb 2020, 22:05

Diogenes v. S. {l Wrote}:And a final answer to this cannot be found in principle. Because there is not a single project that cannot be "somehow" developed further.
And who knows; maybe one day our children and children's children will even play STK on a holodeck - as shown in Star Trek or something. :-D
But even then, games and game conditions will never be perfect, especially since the technical term for permanent change is simply "evolution".

That's a good point. Just because I see no issue doesn't mean it is the best!

Diogenes v. S. {l Wrote}:And that's exactly what I've been doing the last few days by changing the settings of the heavy karts a bit and testing them in numerous offline races with 10 and then 19 AI's per race (and of course in every race mode).
So in concrete terms I increased the engine power a little (power = "* 1.2"), but reduced the maximum speed a bit (max-speed = "* 1.01"). I have left all other settings unchanged.

It's good to see some practical experimentation, as opposed to me just speculating ;) Good work. Also thank you for giving concrete details.

There are a few things I want to point out:
- You played with 10 and then 19 AI karts. That is a lot of karts, so karts are more likely to be hit or stop. That certainly made heavy karts less effective. Like you said, they need to fight through a lot of AI karts.
The default settings and story mode use approximately 5 AI karts. In my personal experience*, online games have 3 or 4 other players, often less. My point is, you will only have games with many karts if you purposely choose to. That happens, but normal games are more important.
Maybe testing with 3 and 5 AI would be more realistic?
*my experience may not be typical, is it the same for all of you?

If you make the changes that you proposed, would there still be a noticeable difference between small, medium and heavy karts? (I do not know the answer)


More replies are on page 2 of this thread!
Last edited by tempAnon093 on 02 Mar 2020, 12:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Powerup changes for STK 2.0

Postby Diogenes v. S. » 19 Feb 2020, 23:30

Hello tempAnon093, :-)

yes, I also tried races with only 3 or 4 AI's and found that all the advantages and disadvantages are more balanced with my settings - especially since middle-weight and light-weight karts with fewer AI's or teammates are also shot down less.
Under the original settings, heavy karts only had the advantage of increased top speed (that's why I reduced the top speed).
It doesn't matter now how many AI's or players are involved in offline races or online races; all conditions are now overall better balanced. :-)
The best razor in the universe is Ockham's razor. ;-)
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