Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby LunaVorax » 20 Jan 2011, 22:52

Hello everyone !

Before starting this post, if you're a dev of STK I would like you to calm down because this is post is mostly going to be about complains about the game and "you've done this wrong" stuffs.

I have to admit that I don't know a lot about STK's background. I don't know how old the project is and if has been taken back to life from another old project but I do know one very important thing : STK is heading right in the direction of "theses regular open-source games", which means poor design, poor gamplay but thanks god the source is open so that automatically made it a must have.
Ever played SuperTux not because you wanted to be it actually was the only game available on your computer that came with your Linux distro ? That's what STK is going to be in a near future.

The reason why I'm writing this post is not because I'm an angry guy who have some free time to loose ; but because I actually like the idea of at last having (we, the linux users/free games addicts in general) our own Super Mario Kart clone and I actually spend time playing the last release of STK from time to time and I would like STK to become a "Good Game" and not just an "Open-Source Game".
Therefore as a player who like your game the best thing I can do if I can't contribute to the project by coding for it would be at least to honnestly point out what's seriously wrong and need to be changed.


Ok, this in not going to be an easy post for me to write because there's a lot of things to complain and talk about.

First things firt : The Menu

There's only one word that can descrite the whole game : overloaded. And this starts with the menu.

First of all, when I start the game, there's this strange loading screen with heads of all the characters filling the bottom of the screen.
What's wrong with the regular black screen and white loading bar ?
That may sounds stupid, but I wanted to play a video game, not to start up KDE.

I can't say the startup menu is especially bad, but it's especially empty if we compare it to what some other racing games looks like.
The Help and Quit buttons seems a bit unappropriate.
The Quit button could be simply removed since the software quit when you hit the Escape key or be put in one of the bottom corner of he screen and smaller.
The Help button could be completely removed and replaced by a real PDF manual downloadable on the website. Or it could depend way less on the GUI to make it more readable.

Let's talk a bit more about the GUI in a section where it became even more important : the Option panel

Before talking about how ugly the GUI is, let's talk about how uglier it could be. One of the thing that really caught my eye is the ability to change the "skin" of it.
Seriously, how useless it that ? The skin of the menu doesn't have to be the choice of the player but it has to be the player doesn't have to care about (and doesn't complain about of course).
I really don't know if this "feature" is planned to be kept, but for now it only give you the choice between 2 and half differen't skins (3 actually, but it's only a color change for one of it) the worst of all being the skin "glass" which only reminds me an old bottle of wine.

The resolution change menu is quite obviously uncomplete but also really overloaded with all theses icons of screen telling the ratio of the resolution while all of this could have been reduced to a simple menu with two arrows on each side... which is ironically how the skin menu is working.

Also one last thing that will pop-up again once I'll start playing is the font used.
I don't know if it's because it looked cool or if it's because it was open to use for anything but this font is cleary too detailed for menu.
Everything is already graphically overloaded, don't make it heavier with a complex font.
Go ahead and use a clean font that won't make all of this hard to read.
Again, just like the other guys are doing.

Ok that's maybe enoug about the menu for now. There sure is a lot of things to complain about again for the race menu about how empty it is and how it doesn't wisely use the space of the screen but it's time to play.

The characters

There's two big problems with the playable characters of this game.

First of all, I do understand this game is about open-source mascot racing with each other but this is no excuse for the lack of creativity in the making of the models.
The characters really looks too much like the logo drawing we're used to see ; as a matter of fact, Pidgin looks like he got a piece of broken glass stucked in the butt and Wilber looks like he have been beaten with the ugly stick.
Making characters that are "inspired by" and not "exact reproduction of" would have been a better idea.

Another bad thing is that every character got their own cars.
I'm going to be nice this time, I'm sure it's a decision taken because it's hard to make different cars and characters, blablabla. But this has a serious impact on the gameplay as no cars can have specific features because they're stucked to one character's butt. Or if it is, what if I want to race Hexley and being forced to have a less efficient car than Tux who certainly will beat the crap out of me ?
This is probably where the biggest of the work will be.

Now it's time to choose my track and things aren't getting any better.

The track choosing menu is very confusing.

First of all this line of tracks at the top of the scree which can't stop changing every 2seconds is really annoying.

Second, it get very difficult to choose a race when you have the screenshot of the tracks first and the name of it after.
This clearly should be the contrary, with the list of the names of the track and the screenshot displaying only when selected.
Also, the screenshots of the maps doesn't represent at all the track that we're going to race. It's just a simple in-game screenshot with the player filling approximatively 1/9 of the small image. The tracks seriously have to be shot without any players and from a very different angle that can give a very distinctive view of it.

Okay, time to play (btw, that "follow the 1st one mode" is the weirdest idea ever)

Now that the real game started there's already a lot of bad points to... well point out.

Let's grab a regular Mario Kart Wii screenshot and compare the on-screen informations

Super Mario Kart
    Time (not super usefull for regulat playing, I agree)
    Laps
    Rank
    Readable Map (with position of the players)
    Bonus (when grabbing a bonus)

Super Tux Kart
    Time
    Laps
    Rank
    Tinyest map ever (with position of the players but impossible to see)
    Position of the players
    Nitro counter
    Speed
    Bonus (when grabbing a bonus)
    Informations about other players

There's no need to be a genius to understand that there's clearly too much things on the screen when playing STK.

In the first place, the Speed indicator is useless. The player doesn't need to know at what speed he's driving since you can clearly feel when a bonus/malus is making you faster/slower. Instead of trying to improve the unimprovable, try to see what's needed and what is not.

The position of the players on the left side of the screen come from a good idea and starts to be a serious pain when you have more than 6 players in the race as it can't stop wobbling up and down because everyone is driving side to side.
This feature should also be removed in favor of a bigger map that'll give the same amount of information but in a less annoying way.

Talking about information : theses little lines at the bottom of the screen telling you what have the other players done is really unwanted and belongs to games such as Worms, Hedgewars, Wormux but not to a game where you're supposed to be focused on the track you're driving on.

There's one thing that bothers me with this nitro counter is that it add more complexity to the game. You already have to focus on the track, avoid traps and attack your ennemies. Why making the game more complex by adding nitro bonus that you have to focus to catch and then hit the "N" key to have a little boost not efficient enought to win the race ?
Maybe that was a good idea, but that not really is the right way to implement it.
If you really need a boost thinggy, why not doing an automatic one exactly like in the game Ignition/Fun Tracks ?

The car's speed is a real problem as it isn't uncommon to be on a track and keep the same distance between two players for a long time because of not grabbing the right bonus or not having enough nitro.

The obtained bonus shouldn't appear as an alone logo at the top of the screen but should be inside a container... like the others guy do.
Another problem would be bonus keeping as it is annoying to grab a bonus and then having it switched by another one it you accidently grab another bonus while still haven't used the precendent one.

And once again, a clean font should be used rather than a quircky one.

I think that's all for now, others suggestions, ideas and such may pop up.
Please don't act as if I was a mean person. I may was rude but I think STK deserve to be a very good game instead of being that "I contributed to this project" thinggy you put on your CV.

Please let me know what do you think about it, don't hesitate to point out my mistakes.

Arguing by saying "You mispelled this" or "If you're so smart join the team and help us" and such won't make the game any better.
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby KroArtem » 20 Jan 2011, 23:26

I'll ask you only one question today and a lot of tomorrow.
1. Is this trolling? :P
Looks like French is your native language so you can use it to mix up with Auria and other french-speaking people here :)
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby LunaVorax » 20 Jan 2011, 23:34

KroArtem {l Wrote}:Is this trolling?

No no, I'm very serious.
But I do understand this can be taken bad. This in absolutely not the main intention though.

French indeed is my native language. I'm sure I've made a lot of mistakes in my writing, I'll correct them up as soon as they are pointed out or as I see them.
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby STKRudy85 » 20 Jan 2011, 23:39

suggestions :

blender gimp inkscape PEN_paper_and_scanner google_translator envy motivation courage and some more of personal values

You're welcome :)
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby Arthur » 20 Jan 2011, 23:56

Well, I certainly agree with some of your points, while I disagree with others.

The point is, you're wanting a completely different game. And while "If you're so smart join the team and help us" won't help the game, the fact is that making things better needs PEOPLE. And that's what many, including this FOSS project sorely lacks in. We're only a small handful of people working on this, and this in our limited spare time. If you want to help out, please do so, but right now I get the feeling that you should either be playing something else, or try to be more constructive with your feedback. As it is now, your post sounds more than a rant than what I sincerely hope it is: an attempt to help us make the game better.

Have a good day.
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby Auria » 21 Jan 2011, 00:30

Hi,

you posted A LOT so I'll do my best but will go through your points quickly.

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:First things firt : The Menu

There's only one word that can descrite the whole game : overloaded. And this starts with the menu.

First of all, when I start the game, there's this strange loading screen with heads of all the characters filling the bottom of the screen.
What's wrong with the regular black screen and white loading bar ?
That may sounds stupid, but I wanted to play a video game, not to start up KDE.

I can't say the startup menu is especially bad, but it's especially empty if we compare it to what some other racing games looks like.
The Help and Quit buttons seems a bit unappropriate.
The Quit button could be simply removed since the software quit when you hit the Escape key or be put in one of the bottom corner of he screen and smaller.
The Help button could be completely removed and replaced by a real PDF manual downloadable on the website. Or it could depend way less on the GUI to make it more readable.



We generally received positive feedback about the load screen, and in any case this is IMHO excessively minor.

About help menu, a PDF might be useful, the usefulness of a GUI is that it is translated into all languages through our current system. If you feel like volunteering to maintain various translations of a PDF, we will be glad to accept your contribution - meanwhile we're busy with other arguably more important stuff

Regarding the GUI being overloaded; there is sure room for improvement. I don't think removing the quit button will help that, the main menu is by far not the most crowded anyway, and if we remove it I'm sure we will receive tons of complaints.

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:Let's talk a bit more about the GUI in a section where it became even more important : the Option panel

Before talking about how ugly the GUI is, let's talk about how uglier it could be. One of the thing that really caught my eye is the ability to change the "skin" of it.
Seriously, how useless it that ? The skin of the menu doesn't have to be the choice of the player but it has to be the player doesn't have to care about (and doesn't complain about of course).
I really don't know if this "feature" is planned to be kept, but for now it only give you the choice between 2 and half differen't skins (3 actually, but it's only a color change for one of it) the worst of all being the skin "glass" which only reminds me an old bottle of wine.

The resolution change menu is quite obviously uncomplete but also really overloaded with all theses icons of screen telling the ratio of the resolution while all of this could have been reduced to a simple menu with two arrows on each side... which is ironically how the skin menu is working.


Specifics are welcome; if you can make something nicer that is not technically too difficult to do we will welcome your improvements. Same for skins, we would happily welcome new skins from you if you can make a nicer one.

And yes if eventually we get one skin so nice everyone agrees we can remove the skin choice; this is certainly not the case atm.

Regarding resolution choice, I don't really know, though IMO this is minor too

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:Also one last thing that will pop-up again once I'll start playing is the font used.
I don't know if it's because it looked cool or if it's because it was open to use for anything but this font is cleary too detailed for menu.
Everything is already graphically overloaded, don't make it heavier with a complex font.
Go ahead and use a clean font that won't make all of this hard to read.
Again, just like the other guys are doing.


The idea was to have a font that is not too serious. There are various points of view here, I'm sure if we changed to a serious fonts we would also get complaints - I personnally have no hard opinion on this.

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:The characters

There's two big problems with the playable characters of this game.

First of all, I do understand this game is about open-source mascot racing with each other but this is no excuse for the lack of creativity in the making of the models.
The characters really looks too much like the logo drawing we're used to see ; as a matter of fact, Pidgin looks like he got a piece of broken glass stucked in the butt and Wilber looks like he have been beaten with the ugly stick.
Making characters that are "inspired by" and not "exact reproduction of" would have been a better idea.


We are programmers, not 3D modellers, therefore this is largely out of our control, if you are a talented 3D modeller, feel free to join the project, we badly need talented modellers

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:Another bad thing is that every character got their own cars.
I'm going to be nice this time, I'm sure it's a decision taken because it's hard to make different cars and characters, blablabla. But this has a serious impact on the gameplay as no cars can have specific features because they're stucked to one character's butt. Or if it is, what if I want to race Hexley and being forced to have a less efficient car than Tux who certainly will beat the crap out of me ?
This is probably where the biggest of the work will be.


Balancing karts is a known issue and more will be done about this, simply this is a very long and difficult process and at this point we are not enough developers to tackle this quickly.

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:Now it's time to choose my track and things aren't getting any better.

The track choosing menu is very confusing.

First of all this line of tracks at the top of the scree which can't stop changing every 2seconds is really annoying.


A better way to display GPs may be possible, but since we support add-ons and thus the track set is variable I don't know what we could do.

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:Second, it get very difficult to choose a race when you have the screenshot of the tracks first and the name of it after.
This clearly should be the contrary, with the list of the names of the track and the screenshot displaying only when selected.


You see the name of each track when hovering its screenshot, so I don't consider this to be a problem. Besides, an image usually tells you more than the title would anyway.

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:Also, the screenshots of the maps doesn't represent at all the track that we're going to race. It's just a simple in-game screenshot with the player filling approximatively 1/9 of the small image. The tracks seriously have to be shot without any players and from a very different angle that can give a very distinctive view of it.


Agreed, this is something we could do in the future.

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:Let's grab a regular Mario Kart Wii screenshot and compare the on-screen informations

Super Mario Kart
    Time (not super usefull for regulat playing, I agree)
    Laps
    Rank
    Readable Map (with position of the players)
    Bonus (when grabbing a bonus)

Super Tux Kart
    Time
    Laps
    Rank
    Tinyest map ever (with position of the players but impossible to see)
    Position of the players
    Nitro counter
    Speed
    Bonus (when grabbing a bonus)
    Informations about other players

There's no need to be a genius to understand that there's clearly too much things on the screen when playing STK.

In the first place, the Speed indicator is useless. The player doesn't need to know at what speed he's driving since you can clearly feel when a bonus/malus is making you faster/slower. Instead of trying to improve the unimprovable, try to see what's needed and what is not.

The position of the players on the left side of the screen come from a good idea and starts to be a serious pain when you have more than 6 players in the race as it can't stop wobbling up and down because everyone is driving side to side.
This feature should also be removed in favor of a bigger map that'll give the same amount of information but in a less annoying way.


Improvements are possible; regarding the size of the map, on my computer I find it large enough to see most of what is going on. Of course playing in a larger resolution helps.
Regarding the left menu wobbling, I agree this can get annoying, we would welcome the help of a developer to make it move less (or a ticket perhaps if you are not a code... as I have said though we are not nearly enough developers and we need to make choices)

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:Talking about information : theses little lines at the bottom of the screen telling you what have the other players done is really unwanted and belongs to games such as Worms, Hedgewars, Wormux but not to a game where you're supposed to be focused on the track you're driving on.


I can certainly understand this, the usefulness of these lines was much debated. About 50% of people love them and ask us to never remove them, another 50% hate them and want to see them gone. Such are the kind of dilemmas you see when you lead a project

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:There's one thing that bothers me with this nitro counter is that it add more complexity to the game. You already have to focus on the track, avoid traps and attack your ennemies. Why making the game more complex by adding nitro bonus that you have to focus to catch and then hit the "N" key to have a little boost not efficient enought to win the race ?
Maybe that was a good idea, but that not really is the right way to implement it.
If you really need a boost thinggy, why not doing an automatic one exactly like in the game Ignition/Fun Tracks ?


I beg to disagree, STK is still a lot simpler than many commercial games out there that use a zillion buttons. Nitro is usually well appreciated by players, you're perhaps the first person here to request that nitro be removed (or made automatic, which I'm not sure would be easy to code at all in a way that is not frustrting to the player)

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:The obtained bonus shouldn't appear as an alone logo at the top of the screen but should be inside a container... like the others guy do.

Could be interesting, if you could draw this container and submit it to us we would gladly consider inclusion.

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:Another problem would be bonus keeping as it is annoying to grab a bonus and then having it switched by another one it you accidently grab another bonus while still haven't used the precendent one.


Before we had the exact opposite of this feature and the very annoying thing was that if you get something you don't want and don't like you had no way to drop it. Now there is a strategy element as well, if you have a precious collectible then you need to be careful if you wish to keep it.

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:I think that's all for now, others suggestions, ideas and such may pop up.
Please don't act as if I was a mean person. I may was rude but I think STK deserve to be a very good game instead of being that "I contributed to this project" thinggy you put on your CV.


I have answered to your complaints patiently but here IMO you really crossed the trolling edge. I have been spending countless hours improving this game since the utterly crappy state it was in when I joined the project as of 0.3, and I sure don't appreciate all my time and effort being called a "thinggy you put on your CV".

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:Arguing by saying "You mispelled this" or "If you're so smart join the team and help us" and such won't make the game any better.


Asking you to contribute will indeed not help us if you choose not to. But there is no one paid to work on this, as you know, and we are only two developers and there is no permanent artist working on STK. So a lot of the points you raised can only be fixed by having more people join the project - or by waiting a few decades so that the current small team can do everything.
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby charlie » 21 Jan 2011, 00:58

I think the first question to answer is: what version do these comments apply to?
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby Arthur » 21 Jan 2011, 01:00

Well, he's talking about features that was introduced in 0.7, so I assume that's the version he's referring to.
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby hiker » 21 Jan 2011, 02:38

Hi LunaVorax,

thanks a lot for your long post here

LunaVorax {l Wrote}:Before starting this post, if you're a dev of STK I would like you to calm down because this is post is mostly going to be about complains about the game and "you've done this wrong" stuffs.

Have you ever considered that your style or tone of posting might be a bit wrong if you have to start a post with a warning like that? Perhaps there could be a better way of wording your criticism :) But don't worry, no need for me to calm down :)

...
Therefore as a player who like your game the best thing I can do if I can't contribute to the project by coding for it would be at least to honnestly point out what's seriously wrong and need to be changed.

There are other things you can help out, as Auria has pointed out - 2d graphics (icons etc), 3d models, supplying screen shots, play testing, or donating money, since then we could afford to pay someone to improve the things we can't do ourselves :)

...
I can't say the startup menu is especially bad, but it's especially empty if we compare it to what some other racing games looks like.

Now first of all a big thank you for this compliment - we are not even a 1.0 version (till then I consider STK to be work in progress), and not only are you comparing STK to a commercial, released game, but also to the 'mother' of all kart games. Good to know that we are going in the right direction.

The Help and Quit buttons seems a bit unappropriate.
The Quit button could be simply removed since the software quit when you hit the Escape key or be put in one of the bottom corner of he screen and smaller.
The Help button could be completely removed and replaced by a real PDF manual downloadable on the website. Or it could depend way less on the GUI to make it more readable.

I consider 'help' and 'quit' very important buttons (perhaps I am old style, but I just hate console games where there is no obvious way on how to stop playing/go back to main menu).

The GUI has generally a different flow than other games. We tried to minimise the number of screens, while other games have more screens. Additionally STK offers more configuration options (like number of laps, number of opponents), so again this need a more crowded design (or many many more screens).

Which way is the right one? I don't think that there is a right answer - as long as the menu works well for the players (and this is actually a very major problem STK has atm - which we are working no).

...
Ok that's maybe enoug about the menu for now. There sure is a lot of things to complain about again for the race menu about how empty it is and how it doesn't wisely use the space of the screen but it's time to play.

Which race menu do you mean? Kart selection? Track selection? Also note that his depends on the resolution, and we try to make STK work with resolutions as low as 800x600.

The characters

This is of course a general problem of open source development: we can't just say to 5 artists: go and model the following karts - we have to take what we can get. I admit (though people might hate me for that) that I would actually prefer to have a mii-like avatar creation, and use only those as drivers. Then use a limited set of karts (that would solve a whole nightmare of physics problems for us) :) So for now the idea is by releasing some versions of STK before 1.0 we motivate more artists to support better models, which will replace the models that are not as good atm. So this is an iterative and rather slow process unfortunately. But till 1.0 there is still some time :)
...
First of all this line of tracks at the top of the scree which can't stop changing every 2seconds is really annoying.

Again, this is part of the flow - instead of having one screen where you select GP or single race, this is combined into one. Interestingly enough the game you quote so often is using a similar changing screen for the tracks in a GP ;) (see here at around 1:45).

Any suggestions how to make this less annoying?

Second, it get very difficult to choose a race when you have the screenshot of the tracks first and the name of it after.
This clearly should be the contrary, with the list of the names of the track and the screenshot displaying only when selected.

I admit I don't like the idea of a text only screen here :)

Also, the screenshots of the maps doesn't represent at all the track that we're going to race. It's just a simple in-game screenshot with the player filling approximatively 1/9 of the small image. The tracks seriously have to be shot without any players and from a very different angle that can give a very distinctive view of it.

Well, they show what you will see in game, so I don't think it's that bad, but we have started to improve on that as well.

Let's grab a regular Mario Kart Wii screenshot and compare the on-screen informations
...

I totally agree with that, and I intend to try a more simplified race gui design soonish - once I find the time for it.
...

There's one thing that bothers me with this nitro counter is that it add more complexity to the game. You already have to focus on the track, avoid traps and attack your ennemies. Why making the game more complex by adding nitro bonus that you have to focus to catch and then hit the "N" key to have a little boost not efficient enought to win the race ?

The nitro approach is liked by many players, and I think it can be very useful, and actually adds to the game (and obviously nitro needs another display element on screen, so we will always be one up here).
...
If you really need a boost thinggy, why not doing an automatic one exactly like in the game Ignition/Fun Tracks ?

Could you first tell me where (when) I should look? But generally I prefer to make the game more interesting for the player by giving him more choices. Though it might be a useful idea for the beginner level or a kids level - since it would reduce the number of buttons to use. I'll remember this for later.

...
Please don't act as if I was a mean person. I may was rude but I think STK deserve to be a very good game instead of being that "I contributed to this project" thinggy you put on your CV.

*grin* I can't really resist that: Have you considered working on your style if even you consider yourself rude? I think it would generally help you to reach your objective if you wouldn't need that many disclaimers or warnings in a posting ;)

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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby Teh Matt » 21 Jan 2011, 13:47

Auria {l Wrote}:
LunaVorax {l Wrote}: Talking about information : theses little lines at the bottom of the screen telling you what have the other players done is really unwanted and belongs to games such as Worms, Hedgewars, Wormux but not to a game where you're supposed to be focused on the track you're driving on.


I can certainly understand this, the usefulness of these lines was much debated. About 50% of people love them and ask us to never remove them, another 50% hate them and want to see them gone. Such are the kind of dilemmas you see when you lead a project


What about an option under the Settings menu to turn this dialogue on and off? I personally like it, but it seems like it would be fairly easy to implement a checkbox that sets a variable. If the variable is 1, when the game calls the dialogue, display "those little lines." If its 0, don't display anything. This would (hopefully) solve the problem fairly easily.

Disclaimer: I'm sure there's a better way to do this, but I'm just trying to explain the idea. This is what my novice coding skillz would do.


And as to the rest of LunaVorax's post, I would say he is trying to compare STK to a different game. Emphasis on DIFFERENT. You guys are doing a great job, keep up the good work. If I wanted to play Mario Kart, I'd play Mario Kart. I give you a lot of credit for making a game that makes me want to play it, not complain how it isn't the other game.
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby horace » 21 Jan 2011, 15:47

about the track screenshots...

i think i have already suggested this a while ago but it would be cool if you could place a screenshot camera in blender. if the track screenshot image is missing a new one automatically gets created and saved once you start the track for the first time. (or maybe just using some keyboard shortcut in debug mode would be better?)

it's quite annoying to keep the screenshot up to date. it's hard to do screenshots in the game since you can't really fly around with the camera, you have to edit it afterwards because it should be power of two, the hud elements shouldn't really be visible, everytime some detail like a kart gets an update the screenshot is outdated,...
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby Auria » 21 Jan 2011, 15:58

Teh Matt {l Wrote}:What about an option under the Settings menu to turn this dialogue on and off? I personally like it, but it seems like it would be fairly easy to implement a checkbox that sets a variable. If the variable is 1, when the game calls the dialogue, display "those little lines." If its 0, don't display anything. This would (hopefully) solve the problem fairly easily.

Disclaimer: I'm sure there's a better way to do this, but I'm just trying to explain the idea. This is what my novice coding skillz would do.


And as to the rest of LunaVorax's post, I would say he is trying to compare STK to a different game. Emphasis on DIFFERENT. You guys are doing a great job, keep up the good work. If I wanted to play Mario Kart, I'd play Mario Kart. I give you a lot of credit for making a game that makes me want to play it, not complain how it isn't the other game.


Yes, I did consider this, but the original poster also believed STk has too many configuration options I believe, so this will not make him happy ;)

(And thanks for the nice words :) )

horace {l Wrote}:about the track screenshots...

i think i have already suggested this a while ago but it would be cool if you could place a screenshot camera in blender. if the track screenshot image is missing a new one automatically gets created and saved once you start the track for the first time. (or maybe just using some keyboard shortcut in debug mode would be better?)

it's quite annoying to keep the screenshot up to date. it's hard to do screenshots in the game since you can't really fly around with the camera, you have to edit it afterwards because it should be power of two, the hud elements shouldn't really be visible, everytime some detail like a kart gets an update the screenshot is outdated,...


Yes this is considered, we just need time for this ;) If you make a debug build of STK SVN, note that there are hidden keys to fly, and hidden keys to hide the race GUI. So all that's missing would be to allow taking screenshots on which the karts themselves don't show up. A ticket could be created so I don't forget ;) But it's something I do want

Regarding specifying the camera position in blender... why not! This would need to be looked at by Joerg though since he's mostly the one doing the exporter
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby STKRudy85 » 22 Jan 2011, 10:19

hiker {l Wrote}:
The characters



This is of course a general problem of open source development: we can't just say to 5 artists: go and model the following karts - we have to take what we can get. I admit (though people might hate me for that) that I would actually prefer to have a mii-like avatar creation, and use only those as drivers. Then use a limited set of karts (that would solve a whole nightmare of physics problems for us) :) So for now the idea is by releasing some versions of STK before 1.0 we motivate more artists to support better models, which will replace the models that are not as good atm. So this is an iterative and rather slow process unfortunately. But till 1.0 there is still some time :)


For current version when I made animation:
I've resized kart , placed them higher from the road and gived them bigger wheels in order to improve physics
This isn't enough but character are rather drivable (if one less than another, tell me)
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby charlie » 22 Jan 2011, 11:57

I thought the karts are starting to look pretty good. Sure, they could always be improved, but the iterative development is working well. STK 0.7 is a long way better than the original TuxKart, which was not really playable IMHO and looked awful.
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Re: Complains, suggestions and ideas.

Postby Teh Matt » 23 Jan 2011, 04:49

charlie {l Wrote}:STK 0.7 is a long way better than the original TuxKart, which was not really playable IMHO and looked awful.

Hey, when I started playing back in .4, it was pretty awesome :)

hiker {l Wrote}:Yes, I did consider this, but the original poster also believed STk has too many configuration options I believe, so this will not make him happy

And the more configuration options, the better! :D If I can't spend more time tweaking it that I can playing it, it's not living up to its full potential! :p
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