Hello world

Hello world

Postby Læmon » 09 Feb 2012, 08:32

Hi, first time poster and in general involved with STK.

first i would like to say that this proyect is amazing, suddenly in some short time it improved amazingly, being honest i used to install it to have it there just in case i would get bored, but now it has my attention entirely. I'm used to make mods for some games or at least i used to, mainly for GTA, so somehow modeling and other minor task became my second nature, not meaning necesarily i'm good at it, but you know, i'm always giving my best, and since i changed to linux i never really had the chance of doing such thing till now with STK, so you may be listening from me more than once.

now, i would like to make some suggestions, from my humble point of view about the information for the kart tutorials, nothing too critical but certainly little helpfull details that would help in the making of the Karts at least (haven't tried making a track yet)

-Having an empty template in .blend format for starters/as reference, but not mentioned before the instalation of the addons, otherwise the template itself would be useless, escentially an empty project with a visual help regarding the average kart dimensions, i made my own Blender file template with something like this:

bounds.png
boundaries


so i wont be making more tests in game than neccessary, also i'm not quite sure if Tux is the average midle size racer, i mean, not the tiniest nor the biggest, nothing would be more useful than having a "phantom" copy of the current Tux in the blend file or available as a reference even if it's in .obj format, while i have yet to finish the one i'm making, i'm expecting a big diference of size between my kart and the other karts, specially Tux.

-Maybe this is one of the less important parts for the average Kart contribuitor but i think some details could be mentioned like how the game handles certain parts of the karts,for example with the wheels, will it be using it's "origin" for the steering or simply calculating a new one with it's current bounds, if the number of wheels is limited by car, how the game knows which wheels are the steering and which are statics (now that i think about it, i haven't checked if the karts actually use some kind of steering for the front wheels, have to check out that at home later) how the collision is calculated for the karts or if any other kind of data can be used to specify the exhausts emiter or things like that, maybe it's because i'm used to check out all those sort of details, but just saying, no harm is done talking about these details.

that would be pretty much about what i have found, out of that i should say i never went too far from the main pages for succesfully starting to build my own kart, and what kind of member would i be if i don't show you my WIP:

er.png
WIP from FoxyProxy


i'm making or at least trying to make FoxyProxy,i kinda have Coco Bandicoot (Crash TagTeam Racing or something) like look/animations planed for her, but i'm trying not to go too ahead of myslef, i aready could make the vehicle low-poly yet somehow decent looking, i'm not aiming for it to be included at the official racers, like i said in my first lines, i'm really making it for the joy of doing stuff and puting it inside a game, i find it very rewarding and amusing, and is something i enjoy.

well, i'm pretty out of words for now, great job STK team, i finally can back to modding, something i really missed to do. greetings.
User avatar
Læmon
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 07:19

Re: Hello world

Postby Auria » 09 Feb 2012, 17:19

Hi,

very nice work in progress :) but instead of Foxyproxy why not make the Fox guy himself? ;)

Now regarding your other questions; providing a template blend is something we could do, but in my experience that wouldn't help thaat much for size since AFAIK 3d modellers ALWAYS resize their kart in one way or another after some playtesting, it seems almost impossible to get it right in blender even with some reference.

Regarding the other details; indeed we don't mention them, mainly because modellers should not need to care about them :D these details are ours (programmers) and as much as possible should be transparent to artists.
Now regarding wheels, which is which is auto-detected depending on their position and their center is indeed used. And we support only 4 wheels
Image
User avatar
Auria
STK Moderator
 
Posts: 2976
Joined: 07 Dec 2009, 03:52

Re: Hello world

Postby Læmon » 09 Feb 2012, 19:08

Auria {l Wrote}:Hi,

very nice work in progress :) but instead of Foxyproxy why not make the Fox guy himself? ;)


it's sort of curious story, that was indeed my original idea, my niece likes to play STK too but she said that the game could use a girl character to play with, because the "duck" (Hexley) is the only one available (to be fair, i don't even know if it's has a gender or something), i found FoxyProxy and started to work with it. i'll be doing more in the future so is not like i'm saying is not in my plans, just let's say that i started FP kart before singing and i didn't really thought in FireFox mascot as a priority.

Now regarding your other questions; providing a template blend is something we could do, but in my experience that wouldn't help thaat much for size since AFAIK 3d modellers ALWAYS resize their kart in one way or another after some playtesting, it seems almost impossible to get it right in blender even with some reference.

i see, today i'll be doing some test to see how it behaves, i don't think i will be having to much problems.
Regarding the other details; indeed we don't mention them, mainly because modellers should not need to care about them :D these details are ours (programmers) and as much as possible should be transparent to artists.
Now regarding wheels, which is which is auto-detected depending on their position and their center is indeed used. And we support only 4 wheels

i see, understandable to keep it easy , but i still think you could use in the future a link to more advanced specifications, just saying, i'm used to think in almost every thing while planing my projects and is quite hard to do anything just guessing how it would behave, also i'm taking as "facts" some other details that aren't mentioned, for example, the character animation, i don't see that animations are limited in frames, just that the keyframes need to be tagged for the engine to recognize the animation, i hope they don't really work otherwise because that's actually an excelent idea, hopefully you could be adding a taunt action or something, to make things funnier and competitive (not aggressive btw).

and btw, thanks for taking the time to read and answer
User avatar
Læmon
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 07:19

Re: Hello world

Postby Auria » 09 Feb 2012, 19:12

Hi,

for a female character I might recommend the XFCE mouse, it would be very cute, and more well-known :) (and comapred to Coco bandicoot, we could add it in the main package, whereas if you make a copyrighted character I'm not even sure it can make it to the addons) of course it's your kart so you decide

Also I added some brief info on the wiki to help clarify the points you raised
And sorry, I don't understand what you mean regarding animations
Image
User avatar
Auria
STK Moderator
 
Posts: 2976
Joined: 07 Dec 2009, 03:52

Re: Hello world

Postby Læmon » 09 Feb 2012, 20:02

Auria {l Wrote}:Hi,

for a female character I might recommend the XFCE mouse, it would be very cute, and more well-known :) (and comapred to Coco bandicoot, we could add it in the main package, whereas if you make a copyrighted character I'm not even sure it can make it to the addons) of course it's your kart so you decide

now that's a nice turn, i actually use XFCE and i like the idea, perhaps i didn't explained myself quite well (my apologies, i'm not a native english speaker) i won't be using Coco, i mentioned the character because i have plans to make a model inspired in her, not literally using the copyrighted character in STK, i already read the respective documentation, i'm making everything from scratch so no third parties are involved, :D
Also I added some brief info on the wiki to help clarify the points you raised

i'm looking for it, but i can't spot it yet.
And sorry, I don't understand what you mean regarding animations

no prob, you see, in this part of the tutorial, http://supertuxkart.sourceforge.net/New_kart_tutorial_2#Animating it explains that animations are suported by STK engine, while makes no mention regarding the number of frames that each animation is limited to use, it says it's enough with placing markers named after the actions that the character should be doing, my guessing is that doesn't matter at all how many frames each animation uses, as long as each animation is marked after the action (turning left as "left", and so), unless this image have implied which frames should be used for each animation

Image

also i hope in the future, STK team can add a taunt function and an animation marker, just to exasperate other drivers (i know this will be backfiring me with my niece, but everything to make her happy)
User avatar
Læmon
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 07:19

Re: Hello world

Postby Auria » 11 Feb 2012, 02:05

Ok, I clarified this in http://supertuxkart.sourceforge.net/New_kart_tutorial_2 :) the latest modification is under the "animation" section. (If you can't find the modifications, check "Wiki > History". This is partly why we avoid saying everything, even if we say it all it won't help people since the information gets lost in a sea of data ;) )

Regarding the character; something "like" Coco Bandicoot, I like the idea :) Now just one little clarification, all characters in the main package are mascots of open-source packages ( except Nolok, we need one bad guy :) ). So you might be interested in following the theme; this is however up to you, add-ons are not restricted in any way.
Image
User avatar
Auria
STK Moderator
 
Posts: 2976
Joined: 07 Dec 2009, 03:52

Re: Hello world

Postby Læmon » 11 Feb 2012, 21:00

Auria {l Wrote}:Ok, I clarified this in http://supertuxkart.sourceforge.net/New_kart_tutorial_2 :) the latest modification is under the "animation" section. (If you can't find the modifications, check "Wiki > History". This is partly why we avoid saying everything, even if we say it all it won't help people since the information gets lost in a sea of data ;) )

good, i see it now, thanks

Regarding the character; something "like" Coco Bandicoot, I like the idea :) Now just one little clarification, all characters in the main package are mascots of open-source packages ( except Nolok, we need one bad guy :) ). So you might be interested in following the theme; this is however up to you, add-ons are not restricted in any way.

sure, i know it's about open source mascots, but i was thinking if for the main package, things like a "Terminal" like vehicle or even a cartoon-esque Richard Stallman would count, is something i was wondering yesterday.

i could test my current project inside STK and i'm quite pleased, i mean, is just "make the stuff and put it right away, will work", just minor details i have to fix, yet is still a great game to play and modify and stuff, greetings!
User avatar
Læmon
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 07:19

Re: Hello world

Postby hiker » 13 Feb 2012, 00:42

Læmon {l Wrote}:sure, i know it's about open source mascots, but i was thinking if for the main package, things like a "Terminal" like vehicle or even a cartoon-esque Richard Stallman would count, is something i was wondering yesterday.

Especially the addons are open for more or less everything (and personally I would prefer good models over bad mascots, though it looks like I am a minority here ;) ).

i could test my current project inside STK and i'm quite pleased, i mean, is just "make the stuff and put it right away, will work", just minor details i have to fix, yet is still a great game to play and modify and stuff, greetings!

Good, that's the way it is supposed to be. If there is anything that need to be improved, please let us know, but note that especially our web pages are done with a wiki, so just get an account, let us know your id (we have to write protect due to spam), and you can improve the pages yourself. That would be a great help!

Cheers,
Joerg
hiker
 
Posts: 1435
Joined: 07 Dec 2009, 12:15
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Hello world

Postby Læmon » 13 Feb 2012, 03:03

hiker {l Wrote}:Good, that's the way it is supposed to be. If there is anything that need to be improved, please let us know, but note that especially our web pages are done with a wiki, so just get an account, let us know your id (we have to write protect due to spam), and you can improve the pages yourself. That would be a great help!

Cheers,
Joerg

i just created an account for the wiki with this same name, and indeed there are some stuffs that could be included as advanced specifications in the wiki for example having a brief explanation for the "SuperTuxKart Image Properties" panel, while i'm familiar with terms like "normals" and "z-buffer" stuff i think it could make no sense to everyone specially new gamers/modelers, i had no problems figuring out several things myself, but i think it would make no harm to have a brief explanation for the panel options. I'm finding myself in a problem with my car being twitchy, i'm not sure if this is because the collision detection or something related to the default properties of my vehicle, the gravity center switch seems to do nothing to solve it, is not my highest priority yet since i'm in the middle of texturing my vehicle, but as i mentioned before, something that is not documented could be indeed being the problem since it's something related to advanced topics.

do you have any links about what the current STK engine can do? that would be a good start to understand the current limitations and capabilities of the game
User avatar
Læmon
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 07:19

Re: Hello world

Postby hiker » 13 Feb 2012, 05:32

Læmon {l Wrote}:i just created an account for the wiki with this same name,

Great, I've already given you write permission. If you create a new page, just make sure to 'protect' it (otherwise it will be spammed).

and indeed there are some stuffs that could be included as advanced specifications in the wiki for example having a brief explanation for the "SuperTuxKart Image Properties" panel, while i'm familiar with terms like "normals" and "z-buffer" stuff i think it could make no sense to everyone specially new gamers/modelers, i had no problems figuring out several things myself, but i think it would make no harm to have a brief explanation for the panel options.

Certainly that would be great! We are mostly busy enough to provide enough information that a more advanced person can found what it is needed, and rely on the community to provide more extensive and better structured documentation.

I'm finding myself in a problem with my car being twitchy, i'm not sure if this is because the collision detection or something related to the default properties of my vehicle, the gravity center switch seems to do nothing to solve it, is not my highest priority yet since i'm in the middle of texturing my vehicle, but as i mentioned before, something that is not documented could be indeed being the problem since it's something related to advanced topics.

Which version of stk are you using (SVN or 0.7.3)? You can try using ctrl=F11 in game, then you will see the physics view (after enabling the artist debug view in the config file, search the wiki for details, sorry, don't have the URL at hand). Usually you shouldn't need any tweaking (gravity is lowered by default to be at the bottom of the kart). Or can you just post your kart here (don't worry about textures), then we can have a look.

do you have any links about what the current STK engine can do? that would be a good start to understand the current limitations and capabilities of the game

What exactly do you mean? In terms of kart physics, or all features of the game (like 'hidden' command line options and config options)? We mostly refer to data/stk_config.xml - this is fairly well documented, and usually up-to-date (saying that, in recent svn some values are constantly changing, added, removed ;) ).

Cheers,
Joerg
hiker
 
Posts: 1435
Joined: 07 Dec 2009, 12:15
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Hello world

Postby Læmon » 13 Feb 2012, 06:03

Great, I've already given you write permission. If you create a new page, just make sure to 'protect' it (otherwise it will be spammed).

Sure, i already noticed that has been an annoying problem by some time now.

Certainly that would be great! We are mostly busy enough to provide enough information that a more advanced person can found what it is needed, and rely on the community to provide more extensive and better structured documentation.

I don't mind help and adding stuff myself, perhaps the first thing i would be doing is going to create that page specifying what the panel does, what it means and how it works in game, i will have to ask you to bear with me, 25% of the time my english doesn't make any sense as i'm not a native speaker, some text may need to be corrected by someone who actually speaks it right.

Which version of stk are you using (SVN or 0.7.3)? You can try using ctrl=F11 in game, then you will see the physics view (after enabling the artist debug view in the config file, search the wiki for details, sorry, don't have the URL at hand). Usually you shouldn't need any tweaking (gravity is lowered by default to be at the bottom of the kart). Or can you just post your kart here (don't worry about textures), then we can have a look.

Latest version, 0.7.3 should i be using SVN? i'm trying to stick with the stable package and that is quite hard as i like the up-to-date stuff. and sure, take a look, it's still in alpha stage but "functional", there is 60% more work to do including model and rig Foxy and finish the texturing in certain parts of the vehicle, plus i don't like the way the front part looks so i don't know if it's going to be that way by it's final stage. it's currently 1258 faces (triangles) in total (including wheels), i'll be trying to keep the whole thing under 2000, can't wait to see if i can make it.
FoxyProxyTest.zip
(114.41 KiB) Downloaded 278 times


What exactly do you mean? In terms of kart physics, or all features of the game (like 'hidden' command line options and config options)? We mostly refer to data/stk_config.xml - this is fairly well documented, and usually up-to-date (saying that, in recent svn some values are constantly changing, added, removed ;) ).

stuff like what is used to calculate the wheels's center (boundaries or native origin), if reflections map is supported, and so. I found this info http://supertuxkart.sourceforge.net/dox ... le=doxygen and perhaps, while very technical is something like i was looking for... i have to repeat that is nightmarish technical but fairly comprehensible, anyway, i'll be asking for your help if you don't mind if i can't figure out something by myself.

greetings
User avatar
Læmon
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 07:19

Re: Hello world

Postby hiker » 13 Feb 2012, 14:17

Hi,

just a quick question: I've tried your kart in one or tracks, and it worked ok for me. Where exactly have you problem (what track and where, perhaps screenshot). Note also that I was on trunk, with somewhat changed physics, though it shouldn't affect basic driving of a kart.

Cheers,
Joerg
hiker
 
Posts: 1435
Joined: 07 Dec 2009, 12:15
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Hello world

Postby Auria » 13 Feb 2012, 16:46

http://supertuxkart.sourceforge.net/Tra ... #Materials may answer some of your questions (reflection map). In general, you can figure the features exposed to end-users just bu looking at the panels

Now wheel boundaries and center, that would be for Joerg (hiker). But I think the center defined in blender is respected
Image
User avatar
Auria
STK Moderator
 
Posts: 2976
Joined: 07 Dec 2009, 03:52

Re: Hello world

Postby Læmon » 13 Feb 2012, 17:11

hiker {l Wrote}:Hi,

just a quick question: I've tried your kart in one or tracks, and it worked ok for me. Where exactly have you problem (what track and where, perhaps screenshot). Note also that I was on trunk, with somewhat changed physics, though it shouldn't affect basic driving of a kart.

Cheers,
Joerg


the problem i'm having is that my kart does this:
glitch.gif


it happens in any track, also i have to say i'm working in Blender 2.61

Auria {l Wrote}:http://supertuxkart.sourceforge.net/Tra ... #Materials may answer some of your questions (reflection map). In general, you can figure the features exposed to end-users just bu looking at the panels

Now wheel boundaries and center, that would be for Joerg (hiker). But I think the center defined in blender is respected


i know now, these were examples of what sort of things i would be trying to document, i had this same question some post ago and is the origin of the shape that is used as a center of the wheel, thanks
User avatar
Læmon
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 07:19

Re: Hello world

Postby Auria » 13 Feb 2012, 18:50

Yes this happens to all karts when still :) we're not sure why it happens but it looks like an engine so we keep it :D
Image
User avatar
Auria
STK Moderator
 
Posts: 2976
Joined: 07 Dec 2009, 03:52

Re: Hello world

Postby Læmon » 14 Feb 2012, 02:09

Auria {l Wrote}:Yes this happens to all karts when still :) we're not sure why it happens but it looks like an engine so we keep it :D

i see, that's somehow a relief, but i have to say that other vehicles don't do the same thing, i'll just ignore it then and keep working on it. thanks
User avatar
Læmon
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 07:19

Re: Hello world

Postby hiker » 14 Feb 2012, 22:30

Læmon {l Wrote}:
Auria {l Wrote}:Yes this happens to all karts when still :) we're not sure why it happens but it looks like an engine so we keep it :D

i see, that's somehow a relief, but i have to say that other vehicles don't do the same thing, i'll just ignore it then and keep working on it. thanks

It varies somewhat by kart. E.g. puffy has this a lot more than other karts. Yes, one day I might try to figure out what's causing this ;)

Cheers,
Joerg
hiker
 
Posts: 1435
Joined: 07 Dec 2009, 12:15
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest