Weapon Balance: SMG

[Matadula]

Hi guys. I have some suggestions for the weapon

• Smg1

Honestly, I like the recoil they introduced to “smg1” on 2.0. It helps raise the skill-ceiling of a simple weapon (while still maintaining its simplicity). I just would tone it down 30% to 40% since it is a bit high on there.



• Smg2

Since immemorial times “smg2” has sucked. It’s not fun and it has never had any personality or real usefulness. “Shotgun2” is the second best secondary weapon mode in the game (just behind “rifle2”. I don’t count “zapper2” because it is OP beyond salvation >.<) since it can be used offensively to deal damage (direct and indirect), as well as defensively to zone people out. I was thinking about doing something similar for the “smg”. So, I was trying to recreate Quake3 grenade launcher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYGSJQNV9EM

It basically is a grenade that bounces several times and stays on the floor for a small window of time (2.5 seconds) or until someone touches it. It has a VERY small area of effect, but it deals a lot of damage if they hit you (40hp – 100hp). Since it’s hard to hit someone directly with it, it’s mostly used as a utility weapon to prohibit an area to your enemy.

What do you guys think?

[Matadula]

So far this is what I got:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXhfDWN88OY

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

smgammosub2 5
smgdelayattack2 450
smgelasticity2 .2
smgfragweap2 -1
smgpartsize2 2
smgparttype2 11
smgdamage2 50
smgexplode2 10
smgcollide2 117
smgproxdist2 1000

But I’m a n00b with vars. I still need to apply gravity to the particle (like on “shotgun2”), a better fitting particle (or model if possible) than "smgparttype2 11" and increase the time it takes before it explodes a bit

[freem]

I tried to tweak values of smg a bit, today.
Here is what commit says (it will be hosted on a specific server):

makes smg feels more like a machinegun, and less like a toy

Generally:

* double amount of ammunitions
* multiplied reload time by 80% (to 1500)

For smg1:
* reduce damage by 25% (to 12)
* increased rate of fire by 300% (to 30ms)
* increased spread by 180% (to 4.5)
* reduce flak damage by 25% (to 12) (probably useless)

For smg2:
* double ammo cost of sgm2
* multiplied rate of fire of smg2 by 140% (to 250ms)

Before anyone critics, several changes where done while I was actually playing, so with haste. The original idea was to keep the same DpS (here, it's clearly not kept) while still giving more the feeling of a machinegun. That means the target should feel it's attacked, seeing lights everywhere and hearing bullets whistles near the ears.
I think the changes do that, a bit, but it lacked spreading for a start, and damage increase is way too big. Reload time could be made bigger, too, to reflect more the higher amount of ammunitions.
Someone also suggested to remove or reduce the kickpush.

Here is patch applied with this commit (don't worry, it's only in my repo, it won't corrupt anything):

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

diff --git a/cfg/weapons/smg.cfg b/cfg/weapons/smg.cfg
index 9be5cdd..e068fa3 100644
--- a/cfg/weapons/smg.cfg
+++ b/cfg/weapons/smg.cfg
@@ -7,11 +7,11 @@
 /// determines 'added stupidity' for each weapon for AI counterparts
 // sv_smgaiskew1 5
 // sv_smgaiskew2 5
-// sv_smgammoadd 40
-// sv_smgammomax 40
-// sv_smgammosub1 1
-// sv_smgammosub2 4
 
+sv_smgammoadd 80
+sv_smgammomax 80
+sv_smgammosub1 1
+sv_smgammosub2 8
 // sv_smgblend1 1.0
 // sv_smgblend2 1.0
 
@@ -42,8 +42,12 @@
 // sv_smgcookzoom 0
 // sv_smgcookzoommax 60.0
 // sv_smgcookzoommin 10.0
-// sv_smgdamage1 16
-// sv_smgdamage2 16
+
+//// damages
+/// amount of damages per shot
+sv_smgdamage1 12
+sv_smgdamage2 16
+/// damage modifiers when shots reach a specific body part
 // sv_smgdamagehead1 1.0
 // sv_smgdamagehead2 1.0
 // sv_smgdamagelegs1 0.3
@@ -58,9 +62,11 @@
 // sv_smgdamagetorso2 0.5
 // sv_smgdamagewhiplash1 0.8
 // sv_smgdamagewhiplash2 0.8
-// sv_smgdelayattack1 90
-// sv_smgdelayattack2 350
-// sv_smgdelayreload 1200
+
+sv_smgdelayattack1 30
+sv_smgdelayattack2 250
+sv_smgdelayreload 1500
+
 // sv_smgdesc1 "rapid-fire bullets that bounce off walls and knock back the victim."
 // sv_smgdesc2 "long-range projectiles that stick to surfaces and players before exploding into fragments for additional damage."
 // sv_smgdisabled 0
@@ -168,14 +174,14 @@
 // sv_smgspeedmax2 0.0
 // sv_smgspeedmin1 25.0
 // sv_smgspeedmin2 25.0
-// sv_smgspread1 2.5
-// sv_smgspread2 2.0
-// sv_smgspreadmax1 0.0
-// sv_smgspreadmax2 0.0
-// sv_smgspreadmin1 0.0
-// sv_smgspreadmin2 0.0
-// sv_smgspreadz1 1.0
-// sv_smgspreadz2 2.0
+sv_smgspread1 4.5
+sv_smgspread2 2.0
+sv_smgspreadmax1 0.0
+sv_smgspreadmax2 0.0
+sv_smgspreadmin1 0.0
+sv_smgspreadmin2 0.0
+sv_smgspreadz1 1.0
+sv_smgspreadz2 2.0
 // sv_smgstun1 3
 // sv_smgstun2 3
 // sv_smgstunfall1 0.0
@@ -221,8 +227,8 @@
 // sv_smgflakblend2 1.0
 // sv_smgflakcollide1 117
 // sv_smgflakcollide2 117
-// sv_smgflakdamage1 16
-// sv_smgflakdamage2 4
+sv_smgflakdamage1 12
+sv_smgflakdamage2 4
 // sv_smgflakdamagehead1 1.0
 // sv_smgflakdamagehead2 1.0
 // sv_smgflakdamagelegs1 0.35


[Matadula]

Hey Freem

imo SMG1 doesn't need a buff. It works great for dealing poke damage and of course, it should be used along side a heavy hitter weapon like de shotgun or the rifle. But maybe we could increase the kick push a bit so it could mess with your opponent's movement even more.

What i think it needs are better sounds. It sounds like a pea shooter

[freem]

TBH I think BN needs all weapons to have pros and cons. Currently, it's untrue. Rifle is OP, all "pro" players will disagree here, smg takes ages to do anything, it's a matter of fact. Only zapper1 deals less DpS IIRC and it have slow effect.

But, I'm planning to shut down my non-vanilla servers soon, I doubt BN will ever evolve. It'll just stay a RE1.6 with custom scripts for UI, and will stay an elitist game until it dies (in roughly 5 years after debian stop providing it plus few years so that the ones enjoying it become old enough to not be able to one-shot)

Let's be honest, I didn't continue my experiment on weapon balances, and smg there is completely broken. I know. I knew since when I used it. I was also given feedbacks that "RE1.6 was perfect balance-wise, why change it" or something along those lines. I personally disagree, but OTOH and despite the gameplay and modding qualities of RE1, I've found another project to work with, which makes it easier to change an aspect of the game without requirng patching... huh... clients. Which should have noting to do with rules.

I'm not out, I'll say on IRC for BN, but let's be honest, as long as the goal is to have rules checked by clients, and stay immobile, I don't think I'll spend time on that perfect project. Why spend time to improve perfection, after all?

[Matadula]

Hey Freem.

Balancing a game is hard. Not only due to technical hurdles but also because people don't like their fav weapon getting nerfed. I agree with you in the sense that there are still weapon balance issues and it will be hard convincing people considering the playerbase is really small, it's hard to take decisions due to low amount of data.

About what you said
1. True, the rifle is the strongest weapon IMO and I made a thread about it (https://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=14013).
2. The SMG is weak, but mostly due to the weak and useless SMG2. SMG1 is ok, but maybe we could increase the damage a bit, reduce the rate of fire a bit, increase the clip capacity (by %15) and remove the hit stun. It's risky to judge a weapon just for it's DPS. Also, there are other variables that affect weapon usability and any adjustment should be done little by little and let the players experiment.
3. I wouldn't mind breaking 1.6 compatibility if that could bring better improvements (like a handicap, dear god plz. It's it's one of the features i want the most https://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=14234). But i don't know how to code, so my opinion is meaningless, and from what i heard, RE1.6/BN code is full of spaghetti. But still, i don't understand what is the issue bro. You can always create a server, edit the vars and let people play on it. If they like it, they will stay.