Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby shirish » 17 May 2013, 18:43

Hi all,
It's great to see automap done for Valyriatear. I didn't know the term, saw it today on wikipedia as well as paper doll :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automap#Automap

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_doll_%28gaming%29
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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby BioHazardX » 18 May 2013, 20:03

The minimap is a nice idea, even better if you have the possibility to toggle it on/off with a simple key.
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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby shirish » 20 May 2013, 21:02

BioHazardX {l Wrote}:The minimap is a nice idea, even better if you have the possibility to toggle it on/off with a simple key.


Looking forward to whoever implements it. I do hope maps become largish as well as have many sub-quests so it will be nice.
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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby Bertram » 21 May 2013, 09:45

Hi,

The minimap is a nice idea, even better if you have the possibility to toggle it on/off with a simple key.

Noted!

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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby Bertram » 21 May 2013, 21:14

After a bit of thinking about it, hiding the minimap would be a game option, found in the boot menu and later in the pause menu.
Because otherwise, it would force me to introduce another key.

Would this be ok for everyone? And if not, why?
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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby BioHazardX » 22 May 2013, 13:40

For me, it's more comfortable if you have the possibility to toggle it with a key (like "M")...
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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby Bertram » 22 May 2013, 14:21

Second question, why is it bothering you in the first place? (too big? bad colors? Feeling it is useless?) Don't hesitate to be honest. :)

And why propose other things to improve it. As for me, I was thinking adding map exit locations on it, why not later add monster/chest locations (if you've got the right item equipped, ...)
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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby BioHazardX » 24 May 2013, 13:59

Well, I'm considering the minimaps (or maps) of some games that I've played (like Legend of Zelda III, Dino Crisis, Doom etc.) and all of them have the possibility to toggle the minimap with a key...
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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby Bertram » 27 May 2013, 00:15

Zelda III doesn't show the minimap when in game mode, and Doom and Dino Crisis are FPS, so, I'm still not convinced. Yet, I con completely understand this feature is sub-optimal for now. And I might remove it until I find it good enough.
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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby qubodup » 28 May 2013, 16:56

Yet another option: create a menu to configure keys. Don't set the map toggle function by default.

Or just add a map toggling key and think about whether or not the player would have much trouble never finding out what key it is. Then decide it's OK to never teach the player about the key in-game. Add the info to some other documentation.

You might want to set a limit of keys to use if that's a factor, so your limit is more specific and then you can make clear decisions like "we can only have 7 keys, and map is more important than quick-heal, so we will need to remove quick-heal and add map key instead" rather than "I don't know, another key? this feels like too much...". :)

It might make sense to use SNES controllers as an orientation point for how many keys you can use (4 buttons, start/select, shoulder buttons, dpad).
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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby Bertram » 28 May 2013, 20:40

Hi :)

you can make clear decisions [...] rather than "I don't know, another key? this feels like too much..."


Well, first of all, I'd like everyone to know that I appreciate your support which is rather positive and forward pushing, so I hope BioHazardX won't stop reporting when there are things he feels missing or badly looking. :)

The thing is I try to make clear decisions wherever I'm sure I'm making a step forward more than upon request. If I said this key felt like too much, it's because I clearly think that in the current engine state, it is, and that I don't have a smart idea (tm) to add this while thinking about future needs as well. In short, I'm giving myself time to think about it. :)

To be honest, I'd rather like to add more to the minimap and make it something more useful in game (aka something you won't want to hide anymore or less often) than adding a game key just for that, at least for now.
But again, this doesn't mean BioHazardX is wrong, does it? ;)

Yet another option: create a menu to configure keys. Don't set the map toggle function by default.

Btw, we have support to configure the keys. We just don't have support for this key at all.

It might make sense to use SNES controllers as an orientation point for how many keys you can use (4 buttons, start/select, shoulder buttons, dpad).

Indeed, the SNES gamepad is a great thing in term of keys (and a hand breaker when playing fighting games IIRC) :D But I'll definitely try to keep the number of keys needed as low as possible.

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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby qubodup » 29 May 2013, 14:38

Bertram {l Wrote}:Indeed, the SNES gamepad is a great thing in term of keys (and a hand breaker when playing fighting games IIRC.
I was thinking of it as a lowest denominator. Modern-day development can just as well work with current-gen console controller key numbers. ^^

I'd suggests to use 12 as a limit. SNES controller calculation: 4(dpad)+4(abxy)+2(shoulder)+2(start/select).

An alternative would be to use a limit of 7, based on more-or-less established numbers of things humans can remember (I would count dpad as one entity, so effectively 10.)
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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby Bertram » 31 May 2013, 11:08

If one compare:

dpad : arrows
start: escape
a: f
b: d
y: s

There is x, select, L and R left.
Would I add a minimap toggle button, it would be the equivalent to select. :)

I'd first add support to load custom minimaps first, though. It will make it much more good looking.

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Re: Automap and paperdoll gaming for Valyriatear

Postby Bertram » 01 Nov 2013, 09:38

Hi,

@qubodup, @BioHazardX: The Minimap toggle button support was added in:
https://github.com/Bertram25/ValyriaTea ... 02e7fd18ba

The settings won't update themselves for now, but you can either restore settings default in the corresponding option menu or set a custom key.
I've put C by default as it doesn't to move at least between French/German/American keyboards.
I'll try to come up with something nicer about default keys when the switch to SDL2 is done and well tested.

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