RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby qreeves » 24 Mar 2013, 05:59

The decision was mine (by the way, my in-game name is angeles) , I decided to spectate a few of us using the sword and I found the exploit being used; what I like to call the "Zelda power sword". Basically, fire the secondary and spin on the spot. Not an intentional gameplay mechanic. Just like melee, it requires skill to master now.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby Blindman » 24 Mar 2013, 06:45

I love this stuff. Not that I'm a good player by any means but this is by far the best shooter.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby raiden » 24 Mar 2013, 10:41

:) the sword needs more skill indeed now. Luckily I prefer the swords secondary mode since a longer time. I will try to learn this special technique.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby NetMassimo » 24 Mar 2013, 11:48

Congratulations to all the developers and artists who contributed to this release! :)
Ciao :-)
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby bonifarz » 25 Mar 2013, 13:26

What a milestone, congratulations for all of those major enhancements.
The legs mesh and reworked 3rd person view contribute much to an even better game experience.
And there are so many nice details, like new vars (e.g $playercolour) and weapon balance changes. Great!
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby Snipe » 25 Mar 2013, 21:31

I hate to be the first to post a complaint on this incredible release especially since its so soon afterwards, but the change in weapon vars is really screwed up. None of mods that ppl took time to make work right due to the changing of the names, which isn't the worst problem. The biggest problem I've noticed is that modded weapons can no longer be expressed in any of the flak (now frag) weapon vars and something that took away the plasma secondary's special gravity bomb effect :(

Btw how do the red eclipse accounts work?
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby ballist1c » 25 Mar 2013, 21:33

Snipe {l Wrote}:Btw how do the red eclipse accounts work?


The "account key" that you see in user settings is really only for auths atm.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby rocknroll237 » 26 Mar 2013, 00:05

Awesome job guys!

Love the new customisations and gameplay features.

I haven't played RE in quite some time, but I think I'm gonna get back into it!
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby quintux_v » 26 Mar 2013, 03:23

qreeves {l Wrote}:(by the way, my in-game name is angeles)


I thought you didn't like giving that away :think:

raiden {l Wrote}:Luckily I prefer the swords secondary mode since a longer time


Yeah, I think I learned how to use the secondary back in 1.2 before the primary attack. It's much better for opponents that try to jump over you.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby qreeves » 26 Mar 2013, 04:35

quintux_v {l Wrote}:
qreeves {l Wrote}:(by the way, my in-game name is angeles)


I thought you didn't like giving that away :think:.

Well, seeing as when I auth I get a crown as my badge, the point is fairly moot these days. I just don't like people harassing me when I'm trying to play; get type killed too much.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby qreeves » 26 Mar 2013, 04:39

Snipe {l Wrote}:I hate to be the first to post a complaint on this incredible release especially since its so soon afterwards, but the change in weapon vars is really screwed up. None of mods that ppl took time to make work right due to the changing of the names, which isn't the worst problem. The biggest problem I've noticed is that modded weapons can no longer be expressed in any of the flak (now frag) weapon vars and something that took away the plasma secondary's special gravity bomb effect

Sorta sounds like a PEBKAC to me, seeing as you can still do everything you used to be able to do, but much more. Maybe you should learn the new variables better.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby bonifarz » 26 Mar 2013, 06:59

qreeves {l Wrote}:
Snipe {l Wrote}:I hate to be the first to post a complaint on this incredible release especially since its so soon afterwards, but the change in weapon vars is really screwed up. None of mods that ppl took time to make work right due to the changing of the names, which isn't the worst problem. The biggest problem I've noticed is that modded weapons can no longer be expressed in any of the flak (now frag) weapon vars and something that took away the plasma secondary's special gravity bomb effect

Sorta sounds like a PEBKAC to me, seeing as you can still do everything you used to be able to do, but much more. Maybe you should learn the new variables better.

Heheh, agreed. As I said, I like the new variable names as they are more intuitive in many cases. Since I have a messy old weapon mod myself, I intend to write a simple script to port weapon mods from 1.3 to 1.4, which should be quite a trivial thing to do. :lol:
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby Alxandre Notavo » 27 Mar 2013, 01:08

Brothers, I know that you are doing a great job balancing RE, I really trust you, but please thrust in me a little.

"I Decided to spectate a few of us using the sword and I found the exploit being used, what I like to call the" Zelda sword power. "Basically, the secondary fire and spin on the spot. Not an intentional gameplay mechanic. Just like melee, requires skill to master it now. "

I think the sword was fine as it was (I think even the "glitch" was necessary to be competitive with it), because despite its power in close combat, when you try to run, you’re practically dead. Even in close combat, you could be easily killed, because you're too vulnerable.
Now, most importantly, when you use the sword, your “boost bar” is your ammunition, because when it's empty, you're dead. In contrast with other weapons, because you just reload it and you could actually keep attacking despite having your boost bar empty.

I've been practicing a lot with it and the truth is that I’m better with it, but is much better to use any other weapon.

Before, I casually saw people using the sword. Now no one use it.

Like every other human, i can be wrong. But please check how people play, which weapons uses and what they think of the sword. The truth is, very few people used it before because it was "ineffective (compared to other weapons), now it is even worse and the person who risks to use it against “competent/good players”, ends on the bottom of the leaderboard.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby qreeves » 27 Mar 2013, 02:25

Oh I am watching, I'm far from being done trying to get it right; the sword needs... Something else. Not sure what yet.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby Evropi » 27 Mar 2013, 03:03

qreeves {l Wrote}:Oh I am watching, I'm far from being done trying to get it right; the sword needs... Something else. Not sure what yet.

What about a compromise? You could, say, increase the range from its current amount by 25%.

Just an idea, so to keep everyone happy. I think if I were a sword user I would feel the loss too, but as Alxandre rightly pointed out, there really were only about 4 heavy sword users that played the game.

I must say, t-i-m-s is a bit less exciting now. It was never all that tactical anyway as much as it was running around swinging the sword in a random fashion. But it's definitely different, and I wouldn't say it is for the better.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby qreeves » 27 Mar 2013, 03:18

The fact is, it already extends well beyond the physical range of the sword. This is unintuitive and peculiar behaviour just to make it useful. It just needs me to have that light bulb moment - there's not much we can do this release - 1.5 will feature weapon balance sync with the master server so we can deal with this easier in the future.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby greaserpirate » 27 Mar 2013, 05:02

This might be a far-fetched idea, but what about having the sword deflect bullets? (Maybe use the reload key for "parry"?) That way people using the sword would be less vulnerable and the possibility of having link-vs-ganon style ping pong battles might make more people want to pick up a sword.

Overall, the weapon vars take some getting used to, and I'm not a fan of the shotgun secondary getting nerfed, but as a whole I like the new vars. The return of plasma with a smaller clip and the fixing of the rifle splash exploit make up for any confusion and changes to what I was used to.

By the way, I'd like to remind everyone that this is an excellent time to donate. Not only do Quin and the devs get rewarded for the amazing amount of work they've done making 1.4, the money can go towards promoting the game and commissions for professional artists like the ones who made the playermodel. Also, as of 1.4, players who donate are elevated to Contributor status.

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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby Julius » 27 Mar 2013, 08:31

Yeah, I guess Jedi Knight Academy (I think it was called) was the only worthwhile sword-fighting multiplayer game... in it it switched to 3rd person view when selecting the sword and the thus the hitting range was easy to judge. Some other nice things like bullet deflection could be taken as inspiration from there too.
Otherwise I would vote to cut the sword as melee weapons just don't lend themselves very well to FPS.

Fun might be a high damage back of weapon blunt melee hit that takes player momentum into account (for damage calculation), though. That way crazy high speed parcour moves could be utilized for instant melee kills.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby bonifarz » 27 Mar 2013, 08:46

greaserpirate {l Wrote}:This might be a far-fetched idea, but what about having the sword deflect bullets?

Now I wonder, wasn't this variable designed for use with the sword?
[weap]reflectivity[1|2] <angle> guard angle for a projectile of each firing action when doing a bounce event

In my silly weapon mod, I had a shield function for the sword with a 360 deflection angle, but the excessive visual effects made it kind of useless, as it was hard to see anything with that thing on =)
Also I had some negative kickpush for "cooked" swings to make impulse less essential and allow different paces ... but meh, don't take that too serious ;)
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby Ulukai » 27 Mar 2013, 10:19

Since we're taking this to a sword discussion, I might as well speak my mind about it too. I think bullet deflection could be a great addition and cooking the secondary sword swing would be nice too. It would deal more damage that way. Extending the sword range a little bit more, to like 75% of what it used to be would be nice imo.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby qreeves » 27 Mar 2013, 13:26

bonifarz {l Wrote}:Now I wonder, wasn't this variable designed for use with the sword?
[weap]reflectivity[1|2] <angle> guard angle for a projectile of each firing action when doing a bounce event

Haha, no, that is not what it does at all. This is actually a leftover from Blood Frontier that doesn't get used anymore; basically Acord didn't like the fact that the Shotgun and SMG projectiles would hit a wall and fly back toward him, so I spent three days figuring out how to spread the reflection nicely away from the player. This setting was turned off in the first few revisions of Red Eclipse because I never liked the idea, if you're shooting while humping a wall, well, you're an idiot.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby bonifarz » 27 Mar 2013, 16:45

qreeves {l Wrote}:Haha, no, that is not what it does at all. This is actually a leftover from Blood Frontier that doesn't get used anymore


Hey, thanks for the insight, this anecdote was both informative and amusing =)
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby Evropi » 27 Mar 2013, 19:31

qreeves {l Wrote}:The fact is, it already extends well beyond the physical range of the sword

I absolutely agree with you. I remember the first time I used the sword in third person in 1.4... it just seemed so logical. But I think gameplay should be taken over graphical accuracy if possible and this did, in fact, convern lots of sword players. Last thing I'd want is for the sword to go extinct for anyone other than noobs! It's too cool to die, damn it.

qreeves {l Wrote}:1.5 will feature weapon balance sync with the master server so we can deal with this easier in the future

Wow, this is awesome, I had actually thought of asking about something like this in the IRC as basically no-one upgraded the rather underpowered plasma for 1.31.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby Snipe » 28 Mar 2013, 16:09

Speaking of weapons, I'm still unable to get the desired flak weapons to work for certain weapons. Is there a way to modify them or are they all now just use a fixed set weapon vars that can't be changed?
qreeves {l Wrote}:
Snipe {l Wrote}:I hate to be the first to post a complaint on this incredible release especially since its so soon afterwards, but the change in weapon vars is really screwed up. None of mods that ppl took time to make work right due to the changing of the names, which isn't the worst problem. The biggest problem I've noticed is that modded weapons can no longer be expressed in any of the flak (now frag) weapon vars and something that took away the plasma secondary's special gravity bomb effect

Sorta sounds like a PEBKAC to me, seeing as you can still do everything you used to be able to do, but much more. Maybe you should learn the new variables better.

PEBKAC?

And I've tried changing the fragweapons (1-21) nothing they're all fixed weapons. I work with Xaran from time to time trying to come up with something for an improved campaign mode and one of those times I saw him make some kind of artillery strike out of the rocket, awesome :cool: ! but I doesn't work anymore since the properties of the frag weapons changed.

If there's some set of vars we're missing please let us know.
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Re: RELEASE: 1.4 (Elara Edition)

Postby Ulukai » 28 Mar 2013, 16:50

Snipe {l Wrote}:PEBKAC?

PEBKAC = Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair ( = the problem is YOU :p )
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