Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby rocknroll237 » 08 Sep 2011, 22:21

Which do you guys think is better: Xonotic or Red Eclipse?

Personally, I think that both games have their own unique and interesting features and are hard to compare. That said, I still prefer Xonotic's graphics and technical side, but I think that Red Eclipse has superior multiplayer and much more enjoyable level editing.

Cam :)
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby inpersona64 » 08 Sep 2011, 23:48

rocknroll237 wrote:Which do you guys think is better: Xonotic or Red Eclipse?

Personally, I think that both games have their own unique and interesting features and are hard to compare. That said, I still prefer Xonotic's graphics and technical side, but I think that Red Eclipse has superior multiplayer and much more enjoyable level editing.

Cam :)

Lol i actually saw that today for some reason and I thought, uh oh, Red Eclipse has some competition..personally I just prefer RE over it though because me and RE go way back to BF days :)
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby riidom » 08 Sep 2011, 23:55

I played it today a while, and the graphics is not so different for me (I play both games on lowest settings, so I cant tell who has the nicer HDR or stuff like that xD).

Two things that I would criticize about it, is a) this jumpgun and b) the bunnyhopping. I needed pretty much time to get the switching between that and the main gun done quick enough in Nexuiz, and it seems I have to learn it again. The bunnyhopping never bothered me before, but since I play RE, it just doesnt look good to me anymore.

On the other side they seem to have innovative and fun to play gamemodes, I played a round of freezetag, it seems to be pretty tactical.

Vehicles I didnt saw so far, but I liked vehicles much in all games that offered them. Though they wouldnt fit at all into RE, as the player is a twolegged Jet anyway.

Thats all I can say from one hour playing. One thing more maybe, though most people wont care really.. Xonotic seems to be a bit more hardwarehungry than RE.
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby fawstoar » 09 Sep 2011, 00:49

Vehicles? Yeah, keep em out of RE. But maybe a remote controlled turret...
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby Phy83r0pt1k » 09 Sep 2011, 03:13

Xonotic was good back from Nexuiz 2.4.2 to 2.5.3, after that it went to shit when Lee Vermilion and Lord Havoc sold it to Illfonic.
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby fluxord » 09 Sep 2011, 03:18

rocknroll237 wrote:Which do you guys think is better: Xonotic or Red Eclipse?

And the Oscar for "Troll of the Month" goes to...
Don't get me wrong, but what you did is the same like going to http://www.gnu.org/ and asking:
What is better GNU/Linux or Windows? :D

rocknroll237 wrote: Red Eclipse has superior multiplayer and much more enjoyable level editing.

This is why I play RE, superior gameplay. Easy level editing (even Cooperatively online).

I agree with riidom: Bunnyhoping/Riflejumping from other games (Xonotic/Warsow) looks stupid once you get used to Red Eclipse's (awesome) gameplay.
Also the idea to have infinite ammo/health is another factor. Again, once you get used to it, going and picking up ammo, health in other FPSs becomes boring.
It just isn't the same anymore...

The only point where Xonotic wins is in the graphic/music aspect. It has nice graphics/music/models/maps. HOWEVER, you need a very good GPU because it is (like riidom said) more slugish than RE. Also I can play RE online with a 256 kbps connection (you can't do that on Xonotic) :p
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby qreeves » 09 Sep 2011, 04:49

See, this is why I don't mind discussions like this. Red Eclipse thrives on this sort of thing, just nobody really knows it. Every time I play a game I'm looking at gameplay mechanics and other minuscule but varied parts of it to glean ideas and apply them to our game. What amuses me is how much everyone appreciates these gameplay rules we had from the outset.

I was a hardcore Quake and UT player, so I guess I overplayed the classic type of deathmatch too much and needed something different. I really hate items, because; (1) they're designed purposely to unbalance the game slightly in favour of the person who can keep collecting them, and (2) you end up getting distracted by low ammo/health counts and have to go hunting for items instead of players, whereas with regeneration, a quick run and hide is also a good opportunity to reload your gun and get straight back to it. Wouldn't we all rather just get to the core and shoot at each other? That's why our only items are weapons, really.

I also found it funny that what were originally bugs in the early shooters, got kept and became so commonplace these days (weapon jumping/bunny-hopping). I personally loathe bunny-hopping, and I feel with the impulse system we get the same kind of movement feedback we're after without the stupid kangaroo effect, and even this attempts to be balanced out with the impulse meter. What's also good about this is that new players pick it up far easier, so we're all on a rather level playing field, operationally speaking anyway.

But yeah, I think we're all a little spoiled now and probably find it hard readjusting to the old-school style shooters. You won't see vehicles, I'd rather improve on the player we all start with. I think we can get almost anywhere pretty quickly too :P As for the graphical side of things, yes we are a bit limited by technology (because the engine is designed to run on a wide range of hardware), but we also suffer a lack of experienced volunteer artists, like a lot of projects.

More often than not, I will make up place holders (and programmer art isn't pretty). A great example of this are the "piano" hit effects everyone complains about; I made them almost 7 years ago (it is a glockenspiel and bass drum with echo and bass enhancement applied) and nobody has ever made anything to replace it. Don't like something? You can probably do better than me, so give it a shot and let us all decide if its better than what we have :)
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby charlie » 09 Sep 2011, 05:02

qreeves wrote:More often than not, I will make up place holders (and programmer art isn't pretty). A great example of this are the "piano" hit effects everyone complains about; I made them almost 7 years ago (it is a glockenspiel and bass drum with echo and bass enhancement applied) and nobody has ever made anything to replace it. Don't like something? You can probably do better than me, so give it a shot and let us all decide if its better than what we have :)


You should post that as a sticky. Encourage people to contribute. :)
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby riidom » 09 Sep 2011, 09:39

charlie wrote:
qreeves wrote:More often than not, I will make up place holders (and programmer art isn't pretty). A great example of this are the "piano" hit effects everyone complains about; I made them almost 7 years ago (it is a glockenspiel and bass drum with echo and bass enhancement applied) and nobody has ever made anything to replace it. Don't like something? You can probably do better than me, so give it a shot and let us all decide if its better than what we have :)


You should post that as a sticky. Encourage people to contribute. :)


Wow. I wanted to quote exactly the same part, with kind of an inverted message. I didn't know these sounds are kind of programmer art, because I find them in a weird way fitting very good. Do not take them out! The player menu has still lots of space, alternative sound sets can be implemented as .. alternative, I guess :)

For the general message, beside the example: Very true, of course.
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby PSYKORGASM » 09 Sep 2011, 11:15

Tough one :P
Pros's and con's for both really.

The main issue I have with RE is that it is so slow paced, it feels like players are crawling through quicksand haha! I haven't played RE in quite a while now cause it just frustrates me going round maps so slowly, there is no real means of using movement skills to gain/out skill (movement-wise) to speed to catch up with someone far away.
I prefer RE game modes and all the mutators for some really nice match customisation apart from snailpace instagib and laggy ping infected medieval but the latter isn't the games fault, both games on full settings Xonotic I'm afraid looks 10x better judging by the last time I pulled the git for it, mind you I don't care for graphics that much. Xonotic speed and movement is much better for me, good quake style fun. I still dont play it though lol.

If I had to pick a winner.. Neither!
Like I said, both pro's and con's, all comes down to personal preference. The only game I've played for consistently for about 5 years is Warsow, ICA, CA & Race is where my heart is :P
Flick shooting whilst blasting round at 2000 quake speed units is what I love! Life in the fast lane :cool:
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby inpersona64 » 09 Sep 2011, 15:12

PSYKORGASM wrote:Tough one :P
The main issue I have with RE is that it is so slow paced, it feels like players are crawling through quicksand haha! I haven't played RE in quite a while now cause it just frustrates me going round maps so slowly, there is no real means of using movement skills to gain/out skill (movement-wise) to speed to catch up with someone far away.
:

LOLWUT??? You referring to the same Red Eclipse we all play? Cause the RE I play is very fast paced. One of the reason most of my Halo buddies gave it up within the first week of trying it. :lol:
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby rocknroll237 » 09 Sep 2011, 16:38

Thanks for the replies guys :-)

You all make very interesting points... The only reason I wanted to discuss this was because Xonotic 0.5 was released yesterday and I was pretty excited about it! :)

'And the Oscar for "Troll of the Month" goes to...' I will crawl back under the bridge now... Haha :p
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby Ulukai » 09 Sep 2011, 17:06

I also like playing both games, but RE is my favorite. Never played a game so much since the UT1 days :)

Xonotic is more challenging and fast paced and I think I won't like the idea of vehicles too much. Also the jumping around like an idiot all the time is unnecessary imo. Rocket jumping and stuff need specific skills, but I prefer the agility of RE. Also, RE is way more FUN to play. Hit sounds never bothered me like the hitsounds and "UH's" of Sauer, RE is a big improvement :)
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby PSYKORGASM » 09 Sep 2011, 17:07

inpersona64 wrote:LOLWUT??? You referring to the same Red Eclipse we all play? Cause the RE I play is very fast paced. One of the reason most of my Halo buddies gave it up within the first week of trying it. :lol:


Haha yes, yes I am!
I mean it's not slow paced if you are used to like, console FPS games and things like that Halo, COD usual life-like speed, then sure it will seem fast paced.
For me personally against other games, hell even compared to W:ET, Red Eclipse is like snails, it's why (I'm sure people noticed) that I will only play for a match, then leave and maybe not play for a few hours or the next day, it can be frustratingly slow :?
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby qreeves » 10 Sep 2011, 02:11

And to think, it used to be slower. It is slightly on purpose though, as I am not a fan of Sauerbraten's breakneck speeds.

Don't confuse "Agility" with "Speed" either, there's a reason I chose the former word when describing RE :)

The Collaborative International Dictionary of English wrote:Agility: The quality of being agile; the power of moving the limbs quickly and easily; nimbleness; activity; quickness of motion; as, strength and agility of body.
Speed: The act or state of moving swiftly; swiftness; velocity; rapidly; rate of motion; dispatch; as, the speed a horse or a vessel.
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby fawstoar » 10 Sep 2011, 02:59

I like both RE and Sauerbraten because of the aforementioned enhanced speed and agility that is relatively unique to each. I play them because they still manage to have the best of those two qualities: the breakneck speed of Sauer and the beautiful parkour mechanics of Red Eclipse.
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby fluxord » 10 Sep 2011, 08:39

Ulukai wrote:Xonotic ... the jumping around like an idiot all the time is unnecessary imo. :)

fawstoar wrote:I like both RE and Sauerbraten because of the aforementioned enhanced speed and agility that is relatively unique to each. I play them because they still manage to have the best of those two qualities: the breakneck speed of Sauer and the beautiful parkour mechanics of Red Eclipse.

+1.

PSYKORGASM wrote:Like I said, both pro's and con's, all comes down to personal preference. The only game I've played for consistently for about 5 years is Warsow, ICA, CA & Race is where my heart is :P
Flick shooting whilst blasting round at 2000 quake speed units is what I love! Life in the fast lane :cool:

:eew:
IMO, Bunny-hoping & weapon-shooting-impulse to gain speed is fully retarded.
I strongly dislike any of those pseudo-racing-FPSs where jumping-around-like-an-idiot-to-speed-up is the norm.
If you want speed, why do you play FPSs? You better should play racing games :p

qreeves wrote:And to think, it used to be slower. It is slightly on purpose though, as I am not a fan of Sauerbraten's breakneck speeds.

I find Sauer's ground speed OK, only sometimes it's a bit too fast for precise ground movement (like moving on narrow balks/beams).
As for RE, I like its speed but making the impulse boost moves faster/stronger could help for a faster pace, or a "Speed boost" skill (a skill system ;)) maybe...

rocknroll237 wrote:'And the Oscar for "Troll of the Month" goes to...' I will crawl back under the bridge now... Haha :p

Wait :!: ... You'll be the host for the next years' Oscar awards :lol:
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby qreeves » 10 Sep 2011, 08:59

fluxord wrote:As for RE, I like its speed but making the impulse boost moves faster/stronger could help for a faster pace, or a "Speed boost" skill (a skill system ;)) maybe...

I'd be very careful messing with the air movement physics at all anymore. The values they're at now took years of tweaking. You want to encourage movement but limit it enough so people can still aim at you. This is why our air friction is higher and gravity remained low-ish. So many times, I've been pwned while in mid-air, because unlike most of the games mentioned here, RE penalizes you for things like strafing (yes, you move faster forward than any other direction) and moving in the air.

That beig said though, I welcome anyone to mess around with the settings and prove me wrong :)
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby PSYKORGASM » 10 Sep 2011, 11:17

qreeves wrote:And to think, it used to be slower. It is slightly on purpose though, as I am not a fan of Sauerbraten's breakneck speeds.
Don't confuse "Agility" with "Speed" either, there's a reason I chose the former word when describing RE :)

Well RE is certainly has agile..ness.
Although I hardly ever saw anyone making use of it and everyone seemed to hate the jump/parkour map, which I quite like.
Most the maps apart from like 2 wall running is.. useless, not in a bad way but as in its not needed at all and people just dont seem to bother using it. I think more maps need to be made that requires use of wall running and the other quite nice features. If we could map in #radiant I'd give it a go but the mapping for cube2 is just kinda odd to me.

fluxord wrote:IMO, Bunny-hoping & weapon-shooting-impulse to gain speed is fully retarded.
I strongly dislike any of those pseudo-racing-FPSs where jumping-around-like-an-idiot-to-speed-up is the norm.
If you want speed, why do you play FPSs? You better should play racing games :p:

Well, I am not sure if you are trolling, stupid or just defensive cause RE is *slow* paced, so I apologise if you are upset :P
I do play racing games, and there is nothing wrong with "pseudo-racing-FPSs" Not everyone likes slow paced, people like jumping around using skills in that game to get big speed.
There is no need to insult games because you dont like them, I could quite easily say RE is a 'pseudo-UT-FPS made for poor people who cant run the real thing" but I dont, because even if I felt that, "STOP LIKING WHAT I DONT LIKE" type arguments/diggs/insults make people look stupid.

I just suggest RE maybe has a way, perhaps make wall running gain you a little speed, so people have a way to close distance on people, then you have people wanting to get faster and also embracing the pretty much non used wall running, people may open their mind and use it a little more and make for some more interesting gameplay.
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby inpersona64 » 10 Sep 2011, 12:55

fluxord wrote:IMO, Bunny-hoping & weapon-shooting-impulse to gain speed is fully retarded.
I strongly dislike any of those pseudo-racing-FPSs where jumping-around-like-an-idiot-to-speed-up is the norm.
If you want speed, why do you play FPSs? You better should play racing games :p

+1
LOL! Fluxord is actually right. Any faster in Red Eclipse and you might as well play a racing game ha! It's funny because my buddies were considering a vehicle mod for Red Eclipse, even though IMO, I want no part of such nonsense. The idea of vehicles is a game like this is like implementing planes in Need For Speed. We all just like it for what it is now. First Person Shooting, super agile P2P interactions, and humongous kill-feeds. :D

With all this said, it actually made me consider making a montage out of gameplay from Sauer. I doubt I could do it because with all the effects I use, most of the video will end up looking like a blur unfortunately.
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby fluxord » 10 Sep 2011, 14:35

PSYKORGASM wrote:Well, I am not sure if you are trolling, stupid or just defensive cause RE is *slow* paced, so I apologise if you are upset :P

PSYKORGASM wrote:There is no need to insult games because you dont like them

No, I'm not trolling nor stupid. My opinion is based on what I percieve when playing the games. I'm NOT insulting them.
The problem (that I've) with the other pseudo-racing-FPSs, it's just that they focus more on the jumping-speeding-up part than in the actual fragging.
Granted, they're all stunning looking awesome games and I know RE is slower and doesn't look as good as them.
But I don't care about it. It's OK for me. Hell, I even enjoy slower games such as COD, BF and CS.

PSYKORGASM wrote:Well RE is certainly has agile..ness.
Although I hardly ever saw anyone making use of it and everyone seemed to hate the jump/parkour map, which I quite like.
Most the maps apart from like 2 wall running is.. useless, not in a bad way but as in its not needed at all and people just dont seem to bother using it. I think more maps need to be made that requires use of wall running and the other quite nice features. If we could map in #radiant I'd give it a go but the mapping for cube2 is just kinda odd to me.

Now, Who is trolling Who here? :kiss:

PSYKORGASM wrote: I could quite easily say RE is a 'pseudo-UT-FPS made for poor people who cant run the real thing

No need to insult poor people here.
I can run the real thing (latest commercial FPSs), and I think most people around here can also run them.
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby PSYKORGASM » 10 Sep 2011, 15:13

fluxord wrote:No, I'm not trolling nor stupid. My opinion is based on what I percieve when playing the games. I'm NOT insulting them.
The problem (that I've) with the other pseudo-racing-FPSs, it's just that they focus more on the jumping-speeding-up part than in the actual fragging.
Granted, they're all stunning looking awesome games and I know RE is slower and doesn't look as good as them.
But I don't care about it. It's OK for me. Hell, I even enjoy slower games such as COD, BF and CS.

Just as my opinion was made from playing RE, the games speed isn't an issue I just find it slow personally. The fact there is no way to out-move someone using a skill to catch up/get away I don't like so much.
Which games focus on jumping and speeding up part more then fragging? All I can think of have either separate modes for jump and race and fragging is fast paced action that involves some speed and jumping in a good mix.
RE doesn't look as good as Xonotic with both on high but it certainly looks nice for it's theme, I don't think anything could really improve RE graphics without 'overdoing it' other then new weapon models and/or them retextured which would be really really nice - not really that important atm I think most would agree. I also do, well kind of, I play MW2 pretty much on a daily basis.

fluxord wrote:Now, Who is trolling Who here? :kiss:

Huh? Apart from the parkour map I never saw anyone use wall running, the maps dont encourage it. That's not trolling it's an observation.
The only 2 where it was/is useful is the tiny one like "Facing Worlds" if you know what I mean, and the one with the red death laser things going across, I cant remember the map names but I'm sure you're familiar with them.

fluxord wrote:No need to insult poor people here.
I can run the real thing (latest commercial FPSs), and I think most people around here can also run them.

I think you missed my point there, calling something a "pseudo-racing-FPS" because it's gameplay doesn't match your preferences is insulting, because it's just a fast paced shooter, its not "pseudo" anything. The same way RE plays a lot like UT and UC, that doesnt make Red Eclipse a "pseudo" anything. I just threw the poor in since being like UT is hardly an insult. :lol:
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby fluxord » 10 Sep 2011, 15:41

PSYKORGASM wrote:Apart from the parkour map I never saw anyone use wall running, the maps dont encourage it. That's not trolling it's an observation.
The only 2 where it was/is useful is the tiny one like "Facing Worlds" if you know what I mean, and the one with the red death laser things going across, I cant remember the map names but I'm sure you're familiar with them.

What? A lot of people use wall run even if the map doesn't encourage it. Just play a little more on the servers to see.
BTW, the maps that you are refering are "dutility" and "deathtrap".

PSYKORGASM wrote:The fact there is no way to out-move someone using a skill to catch up/get away I don't like so much.

Your problem :p (but Ido understand you, what you want is to sneak up quickly, kill fast & runaway like a mofo).

PSYKORGASM wrote:calling something a "pseudo-racing-FPS" because it's gameplay doesn't match your preferences is insulting.

Welcome to the Internetz.
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby PSYKORGASM » 10 Sep 2011, 16:09

*Sigh*
I guess I should have known by your display picture I wouldn't have got anything intelligent back, just a silly reply and assumptions made about what I want to do along side "Welcome to the Internetz."

That 4chan shit got old and unfunny years ago. Great community we have here, clearly. Sure makes me want to play more ;)
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Re: Xonotic vs Red Eclipse

Postby fluxord » 10 Sep 2011, 16:39

<OFFTOPIC>
@Psykorgasm
I don't have prejudices, but If I would judge you by your nickname & your picture...
</OFFTOPIC>
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