Design Meetings

[ReZ]

Hello everyone, more specifically Skorpio, Bertram, Chrono, and Svenskmand (those of you who are rarely seen on IRC) and anyone else who might be working on Open Dungeons.

A few of us have started having some project meetings on Skype so we can get everyone working together on the project. I obviously drew the short stick, and was pushed ahead into the dark depths of the forum, to deliver that message.
Anyways, we'll have some cookies, and I hear Paul will be making pancakes for the next meeting also, so we'd love it if you guys joined as well.

The meeting will be at 13:00 GMT (14:00 CST) on Wednesday 20th

Paul424, Elvano, Daemon and me will be there, and we're very much hoping you'll be too.
(please feel free to send us either a pm on the forums, or join the IRC channel (#opendungeons @ freenode.net) with the contact details on skype.)

Cheers

ReZ

[Bertram]

Hi ReZ,

(Btw, I think you're speaking about CET time here and not CST, right?)

Ack here.
I've got something RL at the very start of the afternoon, though. And I can't move it.

Better luck next time, I hope.

[oln]

I am not really able to work on the project for now, but I am very interested in what your plans are, so I'll probably join in.

[Danimal]

posting what is decided on it would be the right thing to do, please dont forget to do so.

[ReZ]

Absolutely right, Bertram. As soon as I figure out an excuse that works for messing that up, I'll be sure to post it!

At tomorrows meeting, we'll mainly be discussing the tech-demo of the game.
Namely progress and features that will be implemented in it. Multiplayer is still way off, sadly, so the first version will be singleplayer only. We're really going to try to make it as simple as possible, so that we can add more and more things to it as we move slowly towards an alpha. Some things are still missing for us to do that progress though, including the game design document. Making a game based on an idea is great, but when new people join, it gets kinda hard to understand what they are actually making.
The game design document however, is something we really don't want only half the team on. That's why we really really really want you guys to also join us at the meetings, to make sure that you have a voice in the matter (Especially since you have worked on this longer than some of us).

Here's a document we've asked everyone to fill in as best they can. Like I have mentioned to the ones we've had contact with, you don't have to fill in points you don't have any thoughts about, and you don't have to be thorough when doing it, as it will just be used for notes when we put together the final version.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cza ... iS2qE/edit

PS: Please ignore everything that has (daemon) behind it, as well as the resources part. I couldn't get hold of him to fix that for the clean document. Anyways, it should give people an idea of what we need to figure out.

Some of you may wonder why we're working on a game design document now, but when we joined the project, we quickly realised that pretty much everyone has their own idea of what the project is going to be. The thoughts varied so much that it became clear that nobody really knew. This is why we want to gather everyones thoughts about the game in one place, so we can work more focused on the game. Ideas will of course always be welcome, as will comments.

If you want to join the meeting tomorrow, just send me a pm here on the forums, or join the IRC channel and send me the skype info there, and I'll be sure to invite you (and do my best to explain any confusion that this post may have made)!

ReZ

[Danimal]

Many more things come to mind, but i think this sum ups a lot. Most things are found on our very outdated wiki and are old design decisions.

[ReZ]

I had no idea such a thing existed. In fact, I think most people didn't :P
These things are good though, this is very much what we want to know about, I noticed that Skorpio is making a new tileset as well, which I was asked to look into last week :P (very much confirms the communication problems). I really do think this project has the skills and abilities to pull this off, we just need to get everyone to work together on it Will you be joining us tomorrow, Danimal?

[Danimal]

Im sorry but i wont make it to skipe, RL issues, but please dont keep me out of the loop

wiki: http://opendungeons.sourceforge.net/w/i ... /Main_Page

[paul424]

Can you skype now ?

[Danimal]

i have to get a microphone first , im gonna get a new headphone set this week, will tell you as soon as i do

[oln]

ReZ will post a summary sometime today or tomorrow.

[ReZ]

That I will. It'll be a short one this time though, due to technical difficulties.

First off, next meeting will take place Wednesday 27th of November, at 16:00 unless someone has problems with that day\time of day. If so, please let us know, and we'll sort something out.

So, the key points from last nights meeting:

- Forums: We need to tidy up the forums here, and preferably fast. Currently, the forums are way too messy. Hopefully Svenskmand will be able to look into this, or at least point us in the direction of someone who can.

- Coding: Rumours has it that the main code is somewhat of a mess, and seeing as not much has happened since 2011, this may be a good time to look at both the code, and a new version of the Ogre engine. Version 1.9 will come out shortly, so we really should have a look at what it offers. We have a TON of artists in this project, so we should be able to pull off something pretty sweet looking, given the right technology.

- Angelscript seems to be the reason that the old versions don't work. Sadly this means that someone will have to look into the scripting of an installer, and re-make it. Would love to hear from someone who has any experience with that.

- Gathering of information. Right now we keep finding more and more information spread around on forums, sub-forums, youtube, old wiki's and so on and so forth. We're going to try to collect all of it on the new wiki, both with links and content, to make sure that it's all gathered in one place, where everyone has easy access to it. As far as I know, the redmine server is open for people to join, so feel free to sign up and start marking your territory (please keep urinating on lamp-posts to a bare minimum though).

The Wiki is very much a work in progress, and more and more things will be added. Feel free to help with that if you have the time.

The Game design document that some of you has seen is slightly off. A new version will be uploaded the way it was intended to be. The punishment has already been dealt in the form of evil looks towards the person responsible.

Anyways, next meeting is next wednesday at 16:00 CET, 15:00 GMT, and so on and so forth. I'll be happy to provide different timezones if needed. If you have any questions, or things you'd like to talk about on the meeting, please post it either here, or at the wiki under the topic: http://redmine.daemonrage.net/projects/ ... for_topics so people have some time to prepare (requested).

Anyways, was great talking to Oln (even though in my sleep deprived state kept calling you olm, my apologies), and the rest at the meeting, and we're really hoping to get all of you there for the next one. We really can't make any proper decisions without the old core there, it certainly wouldn't feel right.

Comments\feedback is welcome

ReZ

[ReZ]

Here's the correct version of the game design document (blank).

...assuming the upload works.

[Bertram]

Hi there,

Thanks a lot for the news.

Version 1.9 will come out shortly, so we really should have a look at what it offers

Indeed Also, don't forget that OD is still using CEGUI 0.7.9 and moving to 0.8.x could be better for the project future.
Might also help fixing my runtime segfault bug on Windows (while I won't let myself dream about it).

Regards,

[ReZ]

That sounds pretty sweet

Oh, and looking at the team, we have a LOT of 3D artists, so we can probably go nuts on models, and possibly also effects for them. Might as well use the resources we have available

[Elvano]

Today is the Project meeting at 16:00 CET
Don't forget to join in

[Bertram]

I won't be able to. I'm at work. Sorry!

[Elvano]

The next meeting will, unless stated otherwise, take place thursday 4th december at 16:00 CET
I hope you'll be able to make it Bertram, Skorpio and Danimal

If proves to be impossible to attend at the specific time and/or date, please do let me know.
I'm sure we can arrange something, afterall, everything is better than having to miss you lot. =p

[Danimal]

Sorry for not being able to. Did you decide on something important?

[Bertram]

Sorry for not being able to. Did you decide on something important?

He means, except the fact that I am too dumb to be able to run OD on Windows. XD

[Danimal]

Its not like it is your fault Bertram, from what i have read before in this forum it sounds like hell on earth, just dont give up please.

[Elvano]

Best way to be informed about what we're all saying behind your virtual back is to join the meetings, Danimal.
I really hope you'll be able to join next one, or does the timing not suit you well?

Ofcourse we strife for better communication so here are the things that have been discussed, rather than "decided".

First and all it'd be great if we could get all the programmers together, to finalise the specifications of the Tech-Demo.

We also have been visualising on how to possibly ensure communication by assigning leads to every subdevelopment (3D-modelling, audio, programming, ...).
We haven't decided anything yet, but perhaps you seniors might be wanting to think a possible carreer as this over. =p

We're still using 2 different repositories, and since there doesn't really seems to be a reason to why that is, we would like to try and reduce that number by one.

Another something that has come up is how to improve the flow of new developers to the project.
A quick analysis has told us that the project looked pretty much dead to the outer world (yes there is a world out there! o-o).
Things to improve the visual livelines project as it appears to outsiders are:

• Updating the webpage
• Updating the wiki pages

This pretty much concludes what the meeting was about.
We really hope you will all be able to join in next meeting, as then we'll be able to handle the heavy stuff.
Don't let the time (or skype) be an obstruction. If either does not suit you, feel free to tell me this, and we can look for an alternative.

A quick reminder to everyone who doesn't use it (yet). there is a ticket system on which you can register and follow what we guys are working on.

Hope to meet you lot soon =p

[Danimal]

You nailed everything, you see, since i last updated the homepage there havent been a single thing worthy of being reported. Sure, there were a lot of minor bug fixes, but thats not something to brag about, there were also a few models on the making, but in a very early form.
Windows compiling has been in proccess for months, the last update is practically a lie since skorpios new tileset is not implemented, the last model i contributed (the adventurer) is fully ready to be used but its still collecting virtual dust. There is no map editor or simple way of testing new models (drag and drop), you have to manually insert text values to do it. Wiki is outdated and full of contradictic things or overly complicated mechanics (have a look at the traps triggers mechanism and shudder) and the project leader (Svend) dissappeared.

I dont want anyone to take offense at this (Paul im looking at you), but this the current affairs of things, im not blaming anyone (still looking at you Paul), and i think any positive change is welcome.

[Bertram]

Thanks to both for the summary.

Pretty much what I expected while not judging anybody on anything either.

To be serious for a second, even if I encountered all the possible problems when willing to compile OD on windows using open-sourced tools, I'll push it to the point where it either works, or it is impossible to do (again with open-sourced tools). The point is to stay calm and keep on. ^.^'

The positive note here already is that I'm capable of building a binary atm, and the problem is now hiding when loading the ogre SDK shared libraries which aren't made to work along with gcc-tdm dw2 built things.
So, if I manage to build Ogre using the same tools, the game should run or at least, I'll be able to move on the next problem.

Except the refresh of the dependencies version used, I only have one point for the next meeting, me being there or not:
What are the most urgent features lacking to make OD look like a (even very minimalistic) game and less an engine?
I mean is it possible to beat a (still even minimalistic) AI there when clicking on New Game?
Is it possible to script/code a tutorial somehow?
Is it possible to link a map to another when one has won the first one?

I'm asking this because I do think that bringing something looking more and more like a game is what will make people get interest in OD.

Best regards,

[Elvano]

We are aware that a (minimalistic) playable version of the game will be needed to spark intrest into the game. But as far as I know, that's what the tech demo is all about.
It doesn't remove the fact that even with a nice tech demo the project will appear dead if nothing else gets changed.
I've been lurking in the IRC for a while, assuming the project did really die. Mainly because of the website and lack of activity on the channel.
Who knows how many intrested people didn't even bother to make it to IRC or the forums and there for passed this project by without notice.
Do not get me wrong. I do agree with you, at least for the game intrest part. The rest isn't really up to me to dicuss, as I'm not qualified enough to do so.

Your blamage on "opensource tools" makes me sad though ;_;

I think it also might not be a bad idea to add minor fixes to the website. It may not be something to brag about,but it provides activity and shows there is atleast someone working on it (even if it is only updating some lines of code).
That is atleast in my opinion.