Green Valley Next-Generation Development Thread

[Anon]

Since I'm pretty much done my valley proof-of-concept track, I'll be starting work on a next generation remake of the Green Valley track in collaboration with samuncle in the following weeks.

This thread will be where I post updates, ask for feedback, etc. I guess it would also be where to post any contributions to the track.

For now, here's my notes on plans for the track, as well as a rough map detailing the layout of the track and how the parts will be arranged in relation to each other.

{l Code}: {l Select All Code}

-different parts in specific sequence
   -inside wooden house-castle
      -russian/nordic/viking
      -http://englishrussia.com/images/abandoned_wooden_houses/12.jpg
      -http://www.russia-ic.com/img/culture_art/house_wood_carv_001.jpg
      -http://otonoc.pl/zdjecie-1-1657-villa-miodula.jpg
      -http://www.zakopaneportal.pl/wp-content/uploads/Miodula-300x225.jpg
      -http://eholiday.smcloud.net/eholiday/img/foto/big/sy6154/villa-miodula-koscielisko-2.jpg
      -location/surroundings (house) not immediately apparent
         -becomes visible in "grand reveal" right as music changes
            -silhouetted against background of valley
   -small cave
      -manmade roof
         -sun leaks through in rows
            -godrays as player goes through flash message in morse code?
            -glyphs projected onto wall?
      -purple crystals
   -forest road
      -loop around to show house
         -house & valley revealed
   -bridge beside house
      -crosses chasm beside house?
      -perpendicular to valley
      -valley visible
   -section racing with valley unobstructed
      -sheep halfway through
      -loop around into mansion
         -crosses over cave
-valley visible & unobstructed in 1/3-half the track
-glacier?
   -nothing special over naturally occuring snow in distance
-road set on slope
   -half the track = uphill
   -half the track = downhill
   -wreaks havoc on physics

Please post what you think about what I've planned so far.

Seriously. Now's the time to tell me if you think one of theses ideas is terrible, so I can avoid having to find out for myself after I'm done modeling the track and when it's impossible to change things.

Thanks.

[0zone0ne]

I think the overall layout of the track is good. However I don't like the simple straight bridge over the chasm, it feels like it could be more interesting. How about something like this?

[Auria]

Hi, good ideas in general.

VERY nice concept work as usual OzoneOne You should upload them all in some central place on the wiki hehe, they are so nice it would be a shame to lose them

[samuncle]

I have done a concept art/matte painting to show the general environment and landscape

However I disagree with the idea of purple crystals. IMHO this track should be only a green valley with flowers and beautiful trees. Crystals, mine, etc can be placed in other tracks.

Ozone your concept looks nice and the general idea is cool it makes the chasm less boring + it gives the opportunity to make a river going from the mountain into the valley. However the size of the river is quite big.
Rivers start near these regions so it should be something quite small. Several small waterfall.
Otherwise if we go to something bigger you might be interested by this real life waterfall
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhine_Falls

[thamlett]

IMHO, I like Samuncle's idea better. We don't have enough pure-beauty, while we have plenty of mines, alien planets, castles, etc.

[settrak]

Ozone your concept looks nice ... However the size of the river is quite big.
Rivers start near these regions so it should be something quite small...

Hi all,
with all due respect, I don't believe the search of any form of "realism" to be wise regarding the making of STK (or why make a game where a penguin drives a kart beside an dinosaur?).

I think you should seek for something that "looks nice" and "feels good" (whatever that means) for the player.
In this regard, the work of Ozone seems to fit quite nicely (though your painting looks really nice too) and looks "fun" to play (more fun than running beside several small falls).

Regards

[Anon]

I think the overall layout of the track is good. However I don't like the simple straight bridge over the chasm, it feels like it could be more interesting. How about something like this?

Interesting idea and amazing artwork (as always), but I'm not sure how possible it'll be with the planned layout of the track. Definitely something that I'll have to keep mind as the details get worked out though (maybe I could do something like it with a U-shaped stream?).

However I disagree with the idea of purple crystals.

I actually just put that in as a reminder that the purple crystal texture in the media repository could be used. Not really a loss if we cut it out.

So much concept art... I should also get a picture of some kind going...

I was thinking of a valley with a much more obvious V-shape and more prominent mountains. Something like this, or this but greener.

Amazing painting though.

IMHO, I like Samuncle's idea better. We don't have enough pure-beauty, while we have plenty of mines, alien planets, castles, etc.

The idea was that the track would start out pretty regular (inside a house, forest path, mine), then blast you with copious amounts of vast, natural scenery from one third of the way through to the end. But yeah, I agree that it would probably be better to have the natural theme be consistent throughout the entire level (I'm still keeping the same basic idea, just making sure the feel is roughly the same throughout).

I think you should seek for something that "looks nice" and "feels good" (whatever that means) for the player.
In this regard, the work of Ozone seems to fit quite nicely (though your painting looks really nice too) and looks "fun" to play (more fun than running beside several small falls).

From a track design standpoint, I kind of feel like having a giant waterfall could more or less dominate the design of the rest of the track purely because of how massive it is. You'd have to build the terrain of much of the level around the waterfall for it to make sense (waterfall=cliff=giant mountain=river etc.), which would mean a lot less freedom in terms of the track's shape and the objects in the track. It's definitely still an interesting idea, I'm just saying that I don't see it being implemented in its entirety.


Thanks to everyone who replied. I'll update this thread once I make more progress on this project (might be a few days from now).

[GeekPenguinBR]

Hi! Anon.

I like the concept, but, some months ago, I had an idea (it's just an idea, since I have not interest to make a track thus) of another alpine track with a little bit different landscape, where I would like to drive.

My conception of alpine track includes drivelines on a ski mountain from where you see a ski slope (or even a ski jump), cable car (also called aerial tramway or gondola lift) as well one or two typical Swiss houses. The entire track could be on the highs, from where you can see the pines, the cable car and the river, etc. in the lower plane. This solves the problem about thousand trees, because you could insert very lowpoli trees, since you will not drive near the pines.

You may disagree with me about the track but, IMHO you should consider the Swiss houses and the cows. I think that a typical Swiss house and some spotted cows will improve a lot the landscape. I like this kind of architecture because we have a lot of houses like these in my country (Brazil) due to the massive presence of Germanic descent - some between 15 Million and 20 Million including German-Brazilians as well Pomeranians, Austrian and Swiss. So, if you can find thousand houses like these in Brazil, a tropical country, you must find some in an alpine landscape.

The Swiss house:
http://k53.pbase.com/g6/34/328634/2/814 ... f3lWGM.jpg
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I ... 428335.jpg
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/swiss-mo ... 692015.jpg


Cable-car:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... se_alt.JPG
http://i.gonoma.net/i/destinations/0903 ... le-car.jpg
http://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_ ... 855990.jpg
http://recipegreat.com/images/ski-slope-02.jpg
http://www.hakubajapan.com/pic/skislope ... aira01.jpg

Ski slope:
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/ ... 5tzrxy.jpg
http://www.bestchoiceholidays.co.uk/tra ... Slope2.jpg
http://2roamfree.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/loype.png


The gerenarl view of a town:
http://www.happytouring.com/build-your- ... base-camp/

I hope you start considering the suggestion to include the typical house and some cows too.

[samuncle]

I don't believe the search of any form of "realism"

Yeah sure, I kinda agree with that. But we need to have some root into the reality otherwise we will loose people's interest. It's good to have some boundaries and some constraint like in reality.

I think a combination of both can be used . I disagree with a high fall. However a "large" one but not depth might be cool to see and to make.
Something like that
http://hdwallpapersagain.com/wp-content ... r-wide.jpg
Also it will be different compared to the cliché of the big and depth waterfall + it fits with the general theme.

Interesting idea and amazing artwork (as always), but I'm not sure how possible it'll be with the planned layout of the track. Definitely something that I'll have to keep mind as the details get worked out though (maybe I could do something like it with a U-shaped stream?).

I will do a quick concept but I think it's possible to have a "large" waterfall + everything else. Just let me finish my sketch ^^.

I was thinking of a valley with a much more obvious V-shape and more prominent mountains

It's just a concept of what I had in mind for this track . You don't have to follow it at 100%. I avoided a too sharp V because I want the maximum of sunlight with a minimal amount of shadows. Also keep in mind this isn't an alpine track. This is something different

The idea was that the track would start out pretty regular (inside a house, forest path, mine), then blast you with copious amounts of vast, natural scenery from one third of the way through to the end. But yeah, I agree that it would probably be better to have the natural theme be consistent throughout the entire level (I'm still keeping the same basic idea, just making sure the feel is roughly the same throughout).

I agree with the general idea . But let's make the track interesting during the whole race. If we see the beauty of the nature only 10% it's a bit sad ^^. The starting should be "normal" and then quickly we should see the whole big epic awesome etc landscape.

From a track design standpoint, I kind of feel like having a giant waterfall could more or less dominate the design of the rest of the track purely because of how massive it is. You'd have to build the terrain of much of the level around the waterfall for it to make sense (waterfall=cliff=giant mountain=river etc.), which would mean a lot less freedom in terms of the track's shape and the objects in the track. It's definitely still an interesting idea, I'm just saying that I don't see it being implemented in its entirety.

I agree that's why I prefer a small waterfall. We can always use a large one but maybe ~1 or 2m maximum in depth.

Keep in mind guys. This is a green valley not an alpine track. It's "relatively" flat.

Another great screenshot
http://images.forwallpaper.com/files/im ... -river.jpg

@GeekPenguinBR

You may disagree with me about the track

Yes I strongly disagree with you :P
Nice idea but it's off topic. We have already an alpine snowy track. It's called snow resort. I want to change it to a night track during New Year Celebration. So this topic is about green valley. We don't want too much snow. It's mainly during spring and it's a boreal forest with flowers etc (I'm not sure but from what i know the whole core team want to keep a green valley theme).

Also the only building that will be in green valley is Sara's castle + maybe a village around but that's it.

[samuncle]

Okay I just finished my quick test. The shape of the track remind me a heart so I decided to explore this idea.

For the moment there is only one big issue. The portion in the cave is a bit too long IMHO. But we have a waterfall, we have the castle and the shape is kinda original.

[GeekPenguinBR]

@GeekPenguinBR

You may disagree with me about the track

Yes I strongly disagree with you :P
Nice idea but it's off topic. We have already an alpine snowy track.

Good, but I kept the topic adding an idea of another point of view for the same landscape - a green valley. That's why I have included spotted cows on a green mountain near another mountain (with cable-car) used for skiing in the winter.

[samuncle]

Of course you are free to do whatever you want.

But why spending time on a green valley snow version ? Since there is what you are describing. It's called snow resort and it's definitely a track that needs some improvement

[GeekPenguinBR]

Do you have some interest to add my suggestions (cable-car, house, etc..) on the alpine snow resort? I can post a concept art if that's the case.

[Anon]

@GeekPenguinBR Sorry, but definitely not the cable car and ski slope. I want a large part of this track to be its remoteness and isolation from civilization.

I might take elements from the swiss house when I'm designing the wooden house-castle. The goal is to make it unlike anything the player has ever seen before, and fusing elements from different architectural styles will probably help with that.

[GeekPenguinBR]

@GeekPenguinBR Sorry, but definitely not the cable car and ski slope. I want a large part of this track to be its remoteness and isolation from civilization.

Ok. Maybe they consider to include the cable-car in the resort.

[Anon]

It's just a concept of what I had in mind for this track . You don't have to follow it at 100%. I avoided a too sharp V because I want the maximum of sunlight with a minimal amount of shadows. Also keep in mind this isn't an alpine track. This is something different

I get that, but I honestly was planning on doing an alpine valley of sorts. As in, a valley that's formed by two rows of mountains being between right beside each other. Like this picture, but with the grass 2/3-3/4 of the wayup the mountain and greener. The track would still be set on a relatively flat part though.

I'll try to make a mockup of this idea in Blender Cycles, so you know what I mean.

@GeekPenguinBR Sorry, but definitely not the cable car and ski slope. I want a large part of this track to be its remoteness and isolation from civilization.

Ok. Maybe they consider to include the cable-car in the resort.

Seconded. Who knows, it might even be possible to make it a dynamic part of the track. Maybe it can move in front of a ski jump in the next-gen remake, with a chance of blocking the kart if the driver doesn't aim skillfully.

Of course, it's a little early and completely off topic to start talking about another track, so here's something that's actually relevant to Green Valley:

I made this yesterday with the goal of producing a 3d concept art/mockup of my original ideas for the track. I didn't quite succeed in that regard, but I got my first (ever) real experience using the sculpt tools, which I suspect will be invaluable once I start to model the actual track itself.

Right now, I'm considering many ways of modelling the terrain. I could use a ANT Landscape Generator output and tweak it by hand with sculpt, or I could model a few mountains and blend their heightmaps together in GIMP. I should also take a look at Andrew Price's "Nature Academy" introductory video, I think he goes over the mountains in it.

Anyone with experience with this kind of thing here who could give me some pointers on the best way to model mountains?

EDIT: Oh yeah, I was also thinking of taking a ANT Generator landscape and blurring the heightmap along the general direction of the mountain (something that I already do with my splat algorithm, but with a processed part of the normal output), to give it those downward-pointing ridges that the ANT landscapes seem to lack.

[Anon]

This picture is roughly what I had in mind for this track, except with more layers of mountains and generally larger in scale (I was thinking of only one layer). Imagine the track set on the hill in the very foreground.

[Anon]

Some good progress on figuring out how to sculpt terrain:



Right now, I think parts of it just look a bit too volcanic.

[Anon]

Some more terrain modeling practice and the first successful attempt at vaguely completing the planned shape of the track:

As you can see, I'm planning on putting the track itself above a valley created by a row of mountains being right beside a more gently sloping area (I guess the entire area could also count as a valley).

[Anon]

Yet another terrain modeling exercise. It's actually significant this time though, because it shows the new concept for the track, which is based off of three new concept pieces by samuncle.

Since the terrain has changed, it should now be possible to include 0zone0ne's waterfall idea.

I've also made a Google Doc with one of the concepts, so you can contribute your ideas there if you don't want to or can't put the time in the make your own sketch. Just make sure you explain your changes in a comment, either in the Google Doc or here.

[Auria]

looks promising

[Anon]

I'm done the first mockup/prototype of this track, which features all the important structural (?) parts of the track and a complete set of roads.

This track is now playable!

Please download and test here:
Link to Google Drive

[Hacker007]

Its does not show up. Does it require .8.2 ?

[Anon]

Yes, unfortunately. I could try to port it backwards to 0.8.1 if you'd like, but you won't be able to use either of the shortcuts (they both take advantage of magnet mode).

[samuncle]

I suggest to not port it backward. It would be IMHO a waste of time. We should go forward not backward