Items

[grrk-bzzt]

Hello,

As well as fonts, there's some other subjects I would like to discuss about STK.
This time I don't have any graphics to provide as I don't have a scanner with me but I'll do my best in the coming days to illustrate my ideas.

I always thought some of the items of STK were pretty weird.
Some items are working pretty well, like the bowling ball, but others are rather strange like the (half-auto-aim)exploding cupcake or the auto-aim basket ball.

First of all, I get the feeling that both objects are basically doing the same thing: They auto-aim the opponent and slow them down.
Also, their behaviour is not really logical.
Cupcakes don't explodes, basket balls don't follow people and squash them down.
However, bowling balls are designed to roll and knock objects down.

Therefore, I propose that the cupcake and the basketball could be dropped for a much logical replacement: a firework.
Not only fireworks fits any cartoon universe, they also are associated with explosion and won't feel out of place if they auto-aim your opponnent.
If one object to replace two objects doesn't seems enough, variations could be included like:
- Blue firework. Only shoot straight. Comes in pack of 3.
- Red firework. Auto-aim. You can only get one at a time.

What do you think about it?

[Auria]

Hi,

your blue firework would work very similarly to bowling balls, so that sounds redundent

As for weapons not being logical, well that's part of the cartoon world though I agree cakes could splatter icing instead of exploding, for instance

the difference between cake and basketball is that the basketball always goes for the first player, whereas cake goes for closest

Also, you say that basketballs aren't usually used to attack people; well fireworks neither

Generally speaking, I think we don't really have the time to change items anyway

[sphyrth]

This post got me imagining something like:
"Muffin --> Grenade"
"Basketball --> First-seeking Pigeon"

But, of course, I can only imagine. ^_^

[MCMic]

I like the basket ball the way it is, it makes sense.

[Arthur]

Also changing it to fireworks would kinda be regressing to the pre-0.6 weapons as they were indeed more like that.
Agreed about the cup cake, that one exploding is a little odd, but in a cartoon world you create your own realism.

[grrk-bzzt]

Hi,
your blue firework would work very similarly to bowling balls, so that sounds redundent
As for weapons not being logical, well that's part of the cartoon world though I agree cakes could splatter icing instead of exploding, for instance
the difference between cake and basketball is that the basketball always goes for the first player, whereas cake goes for closest
Also, you say that basketballs aren't usually used to attack people; well fireworks neither
Generally speaking, I think we don't really have the time to change items anyway

Hello Auria,
I actually misread what the weapon actually do.
The cupcake auto-aim at the nearest player while the basket ball aims at the first player.
Therefore I reformulate my proposition :
Red firework could aim at the nearest player and can only be given one at a time.
As for a replacement of the basket ball, why not use a guided missile instead, something like a tiny rocket ship with an antenna.

While discussing with samuncle, I thought cupcakes could be used as an invicibility bonus. Just like the star in Mario, the cupcake could give the player a "sugar rush" that makes him/her invicible and goes faster for a short period of time.

I do propose new objects because I feel some of the current ones have gives a really poor aestethic to the game and have no continuity to each other.
In Mario Kart, shells make a continuity:
Green Shell → Red Shell → Blue Shell
Shoot straight → Auto aim → Auto aim at first player

Here in STK it makes no sense
Bowling ball → Cupcake → Basket Ball

You'll have no trouble fiding a cartoon when showing fireworks means someone is going to get into troubles.
But I'm sure you won't find any cartoon that alert the viewer that something bad is going to happend because a basketball is showed on screen (unless, of course, the focus of the cartoon is on sports).
I don't think that because something makes no sense, it should automatically be viewed as cartoony.

And on top of that, I think the basket ball animation is not pretty.
I'm not trying to trigger the "Well we don't have much time/artists/ressources so deal with it" argument, but I'm just pointing that this idea might not be the best one for STK.
Be sure that I'll do my best to contribute to STK and help you change that.

This post got me imagining something like:
"Muffin --> Grenade"
"Basketball --> First-seeking Pigeon"

But, of course, I can only imagine. ^_^

I also thought a pigeon was a good replacement for the basketball, but this demand a lot more work in animation than a simple object.

Agreed about the cup cake, that one exploding is a little odd, but in a cartoon world you create your own realism.

Again,
I think this is a pretty weak argument.
Everytime I read that, I think about Bubsy or other bad cartoons which were completely horrible because they suppose that, no matter what, as long as it doesn't makes sense it's OK.

I guess I'll have to model and draw some things in order to shake things up a bit.
I'll do it as soon as possible.

[Auria]

Hi,

I see your point. In my mind I see the cake/basketball and your fireworks ideas as being both good and workable ideas. But I also don't really see one as being really superior to the other.

Your main gripe against the cake and basketball are that they are unrealistic, but we may just need to disagree on that; first, I view your fireworks idea as being equally unrealistic (basket balls usually don't seek and attack people, true, but neither do fireworks); second, in a cartoon environment, what is "acceptable" and "unacceptable" crazyness are pretty subjective, and some people find cakes and basketballs funny, others don't - I don't think we will be able to please everyone here

So in the end, we end up with a very subjective decision on which idea is the best. I would like to hear more opinions from more people here, but to get things started, here is my own : I see cakes/basketball and firework as being roughly equal, I subjectively do not see fireworks as being an improvement over the current status, it's only a different take on it IMO. Among 2 equal ideas, I personally remain unconvinced that investing our precious scarce development resources on changing between 2 roughly similar ideas is worth it. Others may think otherwise and I would like to hear more opinions here

[sphyrth]

Now I'm liking the idea of consistency. If MarioKart uses shells (Green Shell --> Red Shell --> Blue Shell) for the same hitting effect, why not use another type of ball instead of muffin?

Take this one for example:
Bowling Ball --> Soccerball --> Basketball

The bowling ball's rolling and "Strike!" effect makes sense. The Basketball's dribbling effect makes sense. I just don't know what ball has the one-throw exploding effect that makes sense.