Akien {l Wrote}:Sounds like a good plan to me.
As a side note, maybe we should gather forces with other free software games already on Steam or interested in getting there (Godot, Wyrmus, SuperTuxKart, MegaGlest, and many others) and write an open letter to Valve regarding keeping a way in for libre games (especially those who intend to be distributed as Free to Play and would therefore never have the chance to recover a $5000 entry fee). I could try to draft something and have it "signed" by various projects.
ata2001 {l Wrote}:I'd be happy to see STK on steam. Will it be free (as in free beer) or paid?
QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}:They already do: https://supertuxkart.net/Donate
FaTony {l Wrote}:QwertyChouskie {l Wrote}:They already do: https://supertuxkart.net/Donate
Ugh, proprietary DLC. And I thought this game was ethical. Why does it use this forum? This forum is not for proprietary games.
Arthur {l Wrote}:Nowhere have the forum owners ever said that optional content needs to be Free Culture. Also note that previous original donation package tracks have been included in the game a release later under the CC-BY-SA without any NC or ND clause. In other words, you don't own the forum and can take your self-righteous attitude somewhere else, and furthermore you didn't even check how we've done DLC up till now. That may change in the future but the core game will always be Free Software-compatible.
charlie {l Wrote}:FaTony has a very puritanical approach to Free software. Whilst I don't seek to stifle or limit the sharing of opinion on the forums, I can see how it is abrasive to some.
Arthur {l Wrote}:What's your next move FaTony, trying to get STK excluded from Debian, or get the Free Software Foundation to condemn us as heretics?
Arthur {l Wrote}:Would offering a free food sample and then taking money for the whole thing be unethical? STK is more like a whole free dinner where we also give you the recipe, but then you get angry because the optional dessert costs money and you don't get the recipe.
"Oh you did this free, now you need to continue making things that are free because otherwise you are unethical."
Physical property works differently. If I and another person exchange physical goods, both of us will have 1 thing. If we exchange ideas, both of us will have will have both. When buying food, physical property is transferred. I have no problem with paying for physical property. However, the recipe most of the time is private, so I can't take it and make my own food with it. This is an injustice.
onpon4 {l Wrote}:I think FaTony is prone to extremism and overreacting, and I don't particularly care about what you're doing, but you are misrepresenting his position. It's obvious to me, based on the context, that he means "free" as in libre, not gratis. As in, his problem with what you're doing is that it's under a proprietary license, not that you're charging for it.
onpon4 {l Wrote}:As in, his problem with what you're doing is that it's under a proprietary license, not that you're charging for it.
Arthur {l Wrote}:So if I made a piece of music and wanted to spread the cost and at the same time know how it was being used, I'd choose the pay per copy option instead of needing someone to reimburse the entire cost of production plus living expenses at once.
Arthur {l Wrote}:In any case, you seem very entitled for suggesting that any option other than your preferred one is automatically bad. You even pull the ethics card as if people that are end users of something should have more say than its creator(s), and there are no problems forgoing said work if the terms are not to their liking.
Arthur {l Wrote}:As you noted previously, R. Stallman recognizes the difference between the need for free software on the OS level and entertainment you can do without.
Arthur {l Wrote}:And it's hurting the free software community because if people always get forced to choose between all or nothing they will choose nothing in most cases.
FaTony {l Wrote}:Arthur {l Wrote}:As you noted previously, R. Stallman recognizes the difference between the need for free software on the OS level and entertainment you can do without.
I can't do without libre games. They are the only thing that keeps suicidal thoughts at bay.
FaTony {l Wrote}:Arthur {l Wrote}:And it's hurting the free software community because if people always get forced to choose between all or nothing they will choose nothing in most cases.
Freedom requires sacrifice. FSF developed GPL because they've chosen not to give anything to people who make proprietary software. With GPL you either make your work free or you are committing copyright infringement. There's OSI on the other hand which doesn't support the FSF's point of view. That's why I and Stallman distance ourselves from the term "open source".
deve {l Wrote}:@FaTony So let's do it yourself and don't try to force other people to change their mind. It's my decision what I'm doing with my work and I won't make it GPL just because of you.
FaTony {l Wrote}:I can't do without libre games. They are the only thing that keeps suicidal thoughts at bay.
charlie {l Wrote}:You should go and see a therapist/doctor/counseller straight away, for starters. That's not normal.
charlie {l Wrote}:Stallman devoted years of his life to developing the GNU tools. In a way it is a shame that he does not get recognition given how crucial they were/are to the success of Linux and other POSIX-style OSes. Stallman made the world a better place.
charlie {l Wrote}:Pick your battles wisely, then the odds of victory are greatest.
charlie {l Wrote}:it seems he believes wholeheartedly in the cultural benefits of libre licensed games.
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